For Those Who Say "Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams"

[NWRMidnight]

Apologies, my mistake re where the collapse began. But doesnt change the fact the official report is still at odds with 1000s of architects and engineers who do not agree with the NIST findings and challenge them to this day. Pancake theory or not, the inconvenient little detail that the owner of WTC 7 said the building was "pulled" remains.

That list is like asking for 1000's of house painters to give their expert opinion on the electrical wiring of the house they are painting, with a handful of electricians that have never set foot in the house, or seeing the blue prints to throw in their opinion. For any structural engineer to give a valid opinion, they would need to spend months studying the blue prints and structural design of those buildings, down to every nut and bolt used. I am willing to bet non of those people on that list had access to the needed information to make the claims valid. AKA, you just gave us a list of conspiracy Theorists.

 

[Brainonska511]

The conspiracy around 7 WTC is stupid, and totally ignores that a) there was also a raging fire in the building, b) debris had rained down on it from the initial impacts, c) the Twin Towers basically collapsed and tossed a ton more shit at it, and d) the FDNY was just not in a position to fight a fire in a building that was already emptied out given the circumstances earlier in the day.

 

[Greenman]

Apologies, my mistake re where the collapse began. But doesnt change the fact the official report is still at odds with 1000s of architects and engineers who do not agree with the NIST findings and challenge them to this day. Pancake theory or not, the inconvenient little detail that the owner of WTC 7 said the building was "pulled" remains.

So they disagree. I watched a very large aircraft impact the side of a building, explode, and spew fuel throughout the damaged area. That event absolutely caused severe structural damage, as evidenced by the huge hole in the side of the building. Now you have structural elements that are damaged, and taking loads from the elements that have been destroyed. Adding a great deal of heat to that equation and failure is easily understandable. You don't need crews secretly planting explosives, you don't need space lasers or any vast conspiracy. You just need a big ass plane full of combustible fluid.

 

[Paratus]

Because some people need it cough @amenx

 

[NWRMidnight]

@amenx

Have you ever played the game Jenga? Such a simple game can demonstrate just how quickly structural integrity can change by the simplest change in weight by removing pieces of the structure, even if it's only done at the top half of the block tower. If you haven't played Jenga, I suggest you give it a try, it's fun, and you might learn something. If you have played Jenga, I suggest you go play a game or two with your thinking cap on.

 

[amenx]

That list is like asking for 1000's of house painters to give their expert opinion on the electrical wiring of the house they are painting, with a handful of electricians that have never set foot in the house, or seeing the blue prints to throw in their opinion. For any structural engineer to give a valid opinion, they would need to spend months studying the blue prints and structural design of those buildings, down to every nut and bolt used. I am willing to bet non of those people on that list had access to the needed information to make the claims valid. AKA, you just gave us a list of conspiracy Theorists.

Uh.. did you see their credentials? Many are university professors and accredited experts in their field. Pretty sure they would have been privy to the blueprints all relevant data to the event before speaking out.

 

[cytg111]

I think some arguments would be that the impact and resulting fireball would have burned up most of the fuel. If not, how did the fuel magically seep onto and cover the steel beams all the way to the bottom floors where the buildings began to crumble and collapse? Then there is the matter that heat rises. It doesnt move downward. At the impact areas and where the heat was greatest, the steel beams would have begun to collapse from there. Again, how did the buildings crumble and collapse starting from the lowest floors where there were no signs of fire?

I think the matter raised that steel beams only melt at certain temps is a red herring. There are too many other issues with bigger question marks.

This is how Alex Jones has taught you to think. He has taught you that
1. Cant trust anyone (but them)
2. Your layman deductions outweighs that of experts.
And here you are. Going in reverse.

9/11 conspiracy theories debunked: 20 years later, engineering experts explain how the twin towers collapsed

The World Trade Center buildings were built to withstand wind loads more than 30 times the aircrafts’ weight.

theconversation.com

 

[NWRMidnight]

Uh.. did you see their credentials? Many are university professors and accredited experts in their field. Pretty sure they would have been privy to the blueprints all relevant data to the event before speaking out.

Did you read what I said about them guessing? Credentials don't mean shit if you don't have the material and required information to reach such conclusions. They can have all the blueprints in the world to look at, but without the actual blue prints of the twin towers and it's design, as well as materials used in it's construction, not to mention all the data gathered from the investigation, they are just guessing. Also do you also understand the difference between architectures and structural engineers? One has the knowledge needed, one does not. Did you notice almost all of the names on that list are architects?

Let me put it to you this way: You are on a board full of computer nerds... I suspect you know a little about computers.. If I have a laptop that was taken out by a electrical surge.. can you tell me what parts failed without seeing the laptop, or even knowing the design layout of the motherboard and all it's components?

Better yet, can a doctor/professors/scholars/experts in the medical field determine what internal injuries a person has, and died from, without seeing the MRI, Xrays, or even examine the patient? Do doctors/professors/scholars/experts in the medical field all have the needed Knowledge to come to an accurate diagnosis without having such information, even though they are experts in their field?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Apologies, my mistake re where the collapse began. But doesnt change the fact the official report is still at odds with 1000s of architects and engineers who do not agree with the NIST findings and challenge them to this day. Pancake theory or not, the inconvenient little detail that the owner of WTC 7 said the building was "pulled" remains.

Ed Asner supports this idea so it must be true

 

[brycejones]

Oh fuck off with your antisemitism card. Israeli govt or military malfeasance has nothing to do with them being Jews. And you stupidly highlighted established facts that you probably know jack shit about.

Oh bullshit that is exactly the subtext of your comment at least own it instead of being a coward. As far as your “facts” go you haven’t brought a meaningful one to this discussion about the attacks and results of those attacks on the twin towers.

 

[ch33zw1z]

No mention of WTC owner Larry Silverstein saying the building was "pulled". He is on record saying that.

And btw, not arguing about any US govt conspiracy theory, that is another red herring. In fact, I dont think the US govt had any involvement at all. Just pointing to a few inconvenient details that may lead in a different direction. Silverstein, close confidant of Netanyahu, bought the WTC towers 2 months before the events and insured them for $3 billion. Who knows, maybe nothing to it. Just inconvenient details. The plane that was brought down in Pennsylvania, hmm.. wonder where it was going? ... maybe WTC 7?

Not arguing in favor of any definitive conspiracy theory. Just the matter remains that these are interesting details which fit in perfectly with Netanyahus vision of what could be done in the Mid-east given the 'right circumstances'. Plus, we do have a record of Israel targeting US military (USS Liberty) and other assets (Lavon affair) when they figured it may serve their interests

I mean, if you want to claim insurance fraud via Israel -> bin laden then go for it. You'll need some evidence tho.

 

[brycejones]

Apologies, my mistake re where the collapse began. But doesnt change the fact the official report is still at odds with 1000s of architects and engineers who do not agree with the NIST findings and challenge them to this day. Pancake theory or not, the inconvenient little detail that the owner of WTC 7 said the building was "pulled" remains.

Silverstein said that for insurance purposes. Keep in mind he was fighting hard to change the story so that his insurance would have to pay out more or he could have cause to sue the city of New York. Basically anything he says is bullshit. As far as your apology goes for being wrong what kind of dumb ass do you have to be to not even have actually looked at the collapse before making that claim?

 

[VW MAN]

Thanks. Thats probably what I would have written when I was 14 years old.

My pleasure...and just think in about 12 years you will really turn 14. Now go fuck off moron!

 

[amenx]

Interesting that the OP thought the topic was worthy of bringing up. That he may have been aware of the persistence and scope of the controversy that he needed to dispel it with that vid.

 

[Maxima1]

Interesting that the OP thought the topic was worthy of bringing up. That he may have been aware of the persistence and scope of the controversy that he needed to dispel it with that vid.

Oh, haha. You're not aware of the OP's history.

The meteoric Rise and Fall of Gizmo J

"All good things must come to an end" - Geoffrey Chaucer Gizmo J bursted onto the Sherdog scene like a superstar. His random, unusual, topics drew in crowds of Sherdoggers, his strange profile picture became the subject of jokes and countless memes. As his consistent, paced, postings continued...

forums.sherdog.com

 

[PowerEngineer]

Uh.. did you see their credentials? Many are university professors and accredited experts in their field. Pretty sure they would have been privy to the blueprints all relevant data to the event before speaking out.

Well, that assumption is massively naive! Have you even bothered to read their statements? The very first guy Richard Gage is citing AE911Truth.org as his primary source of information! and the second guy Daniel Barnum says "I have known from day-one that the buildings were imploded..." And the statements don't get much better after that.

FWIW, I have found that having a degree and/or being licensed does not completely protect the holder from becoming pompously, foolishly overconfident in his/her own judgments. And your linked list provides 3,489 possible examples.

 

[MrSquished]

Listening to the NPR coverage today of 9/11 was pretty tough. And watching some videos as well. Tears welling up.

And then how fucked up it is the US Military Industrial complex took these tragic deaths and experiences in order to fight a very destructive pet war in Iraq, in such an obvious and corrupt way that it corroded so much of the support and empathy the world had with us after 9/11.

They blurred the line of who is evil. I put the architects of the Iraq war, that killed many civilians, killed and maimed many Americans, many innocent Iraqis, helped to further destabilize and fuck up a region - they are up there with Al Qaeda.

 

[NWRMidnight]

Interesting that the OP thought the topic was worthy of bringing up. That he may have been aware of the persistence and scope of the controversy that he needed to dispel it with that vid.

I guess you missed the remarks at the beginning of the video huh? Pretty sure that is the precise reason the OP posted the video, because of idiots who believe such conspiracy bullshit like yourself, that are not back up by actual facts. In the case of the video: physics of metal when heated and what that means.

 

[pmv]

I am curious as to what extent the plot involved members of the Saudi ruling class and even their government. Did that legal case ever come to anything?


Plus still feel a degree of awe at the actions of those on United 93.

 

[BUTCH1]

No mention of WTC owner Larry Silverstein saying the building was "pulled". He is on record saying that.

And btw, not arguing about any US govt conspiracy theory, that is another red herring. In fact, I dont think the US govt had any involvement at all. Just pointing to a few inconvenient details that may lead in a different direction. Silverstein, close confidant of Netanyahu, bought the WTC towers 2 months before the events and insured them for $3 billion. Who knows, maybe nothing to it. Just inconvenient details. The plane that was brought down in Pennsylvania, hmm.. wonder where it was going? ... maybe WTC 7?

Not arguing in favor of any definitive conspiracy theory. Just the matter remains that these are interesting details which fit in perfectly with Netanyahus vision of what could be done in the Mid-east given the 'right circumstances'. Plus, we do have a record of Israel targeting US military (USS Liberty) and other assets (Lavon affair) when they figured it may serve their interests

He is referring to pulling off the fire crews trying to save a doomed structure, common sense dude, it takes months of drilling holes and setting charges, not too mention the amount of wiring to set them all off in perfect time. This CANNOT be accomplished "covertly", get it now?.

 

[sdifox]

LoL 140+ metric tonne plane slams into a building, there is no way it will collapse.

I was at work already and we were evacuated (government albeit in Canada).

 

[yottabit]

To be fair I think the "jet fuel can't melt steel beams" came from some images of LIQUID molten steel visible at ground zero.

I don't think anyone denies that a jet fuel fire is hot enough to weaken steel as a contributing factor to collapse.

Jet fuel burning in open air is probably not capable of liquifying steel. I believe the most reasonable explanation for the molten steel was that a large amount of jet fuel ended up down the giant elevator shafts which operated as a sort of blast furnace. This is a completely different combustion condition than open air burn and is capable of generating way more heat and in a more concentrated fashion. Plus, we don't really know what other combustible material may have gotten mixed into the blaze with jet fuel as the accelerant.

Don't forget the 767 are widebody aircraft, much larger than the 737 you might commonly fly on within the US. They were FULLY fueled or damn near it because they were bound for the west coast and they were deliberately chosen for this fact.

Anyway, I can't believe I'm even typing this in 2021. I too teared up at the radio coverage and weirdly enough hearing George W. Bush's speech

Edit: 20 yrs later and I had to google this some more. There aren't even really any images of MOLTEN steel I can find, the most I see is red hot in some. There are supposedly some eyewitness accounts of molten METAL but I wouldn't expect them to be able to make an on-the-fly determination of its composition

 

[Jhhnn]

Interesting that the OP thought the topic was worthy of bringing up. That he may have been aware of the persistence and scope of the controversy that he needed to dispel it with that vid.

It's troll bait & you hit on it immediately.

 

[amenx]

He is referring to pulling off the fire crews trying to save a doomed structure, common sense dude, it takes months of drilling holes and setting charges, not too mention the amount of wiring to set them all off in perfect time. This CANNOT be accomplished "covertly", get it now?.

Actually, that was the point. You cant "pull it" (common building demolition term) within 90 min as that it would take weeks to set up. Hence the implied foul play by Silverstein. I've mentioned his closeness to Israeli PM Netanyahu and Israels involvement in past attacks vs US targets. This (WTC) is of course just a theory which cant be proven but that is the context I've presented this argument. Just inconvenient little details that support such a theory. Incl the fact that he purchased the WTC a few months before the event. The argument of the 1000s of architects and engineers I've earlier linked to also argue for controlled demolition. Who knows, maybe they are all wrong too. I am not qualified to make such a conclusion, but I am open minded to it.

 

[amenx]

It's troll bait & you hit on it immediately.

Tbh, I've never argued the topic here or anywhere else in depth. Just tossing in alternate scenarios or theories. Didnt expect such a shut and closed case argument by so many.