I leave my car in neutral and set the parking brake on flat ground. This allows the turbo timer to run, though with watercooled turbos and synthetics, it's rarely hot enough to really need much cooling.
On mild hills, I do the same, except turn the wheel to the proper direction. Even if the parking brake fails, the car will merely roll 6 inches and be stopped by the curb. If there is no curb, I put the car in gear in addition to the above.
On steep hills, I set the parking brake, turn the wheel, and put the car in gear (either 1st or reverse).
On mild hills, I do the same, except turn the wheel to the proper direction. Even if the parking brake fails, the car will merely roll 6 inches and be stopped by the curb. If there is no curb, I put the car in gear in addition to the above.
On steep hills, I set the parking brake, turn the wheel, and put the car in gear (either 1st or reverse).
Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
- 24,514
- 44
- 91
Ever since I heard Cartalk recommend (and recommend seriously, not as a joke) flushing the radiator on an old 911 (yes, the air-cooled models) I really don't have much respect for them. Even when they agree with me.
An automatic has a separate assembly (the parking pawl) to hold the car when the transmission is in park, this is _not_ the same as the normal gearing and it does not feed through to the engine at all. It is a physical bolt-type lock that prevents the transmission output shaft from spinning. On steep hills, if the transmission rests on this parking pawl, you can seriously strain the linkage when you shift out of park because of the friction against disengaging the pawl.
I agree that both the transmission and the parking brake should be used. However the parking brake itself should always be the primary means of holding the car.
Regarding the brakes being stronger than the transmission: If your car has the parking brake on the same axle as the drive wheels, fully set the brake and then try to drive away. Properly set, you cannot. In fact, this is a classic "shade tree" method for testing a clutch. If the engine stalls with the parking brake engaged, the clutch is good. If the clutch slips, it needs to be replaced. With an automatic, it doesn't matter how much gas you give the engine, it should not be able to break free from a properly set parking brake.
Again, I agree that using both is necessary, but you're bass-ackwards on which should be the primary method.
As for you use of the term "emergency brake" as support for your position, it's a poor choice since the proper term, ever since the introduction of the device, has been "parking brake". "Emergency brake" became popular as a term with the advent of automatic transmissions in the early 1950's because most people stopped using this brake for its intended purpose. The parking brake is designed specifically to hold the car in place when it is parked. That's its primary design function.
ZV
What difference would it make? You don't push the clutch in when you start your car?Originally posted by: spanky
damn, i put my car in gear twice this weekend when i parked and when i went to start the car again, i forgot about popping the car back into neutral. u can guess what happened
And more importantly, you car will start without the clutch pushed in? Must be an old car.
You don't need to put the car in neutral to start it, just depress the clutch. All cars nowadays, and for a long time, have had to be started this way.
- Jun 19, 2001
- 25,716
- 4
- 81
Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
What difference would it make? You don't push the clutch in when you start your car?Originally posted by: spanky
damn, i put my car in gear twice this weekend when i parked and when i went to start the car again, i forgot about popping the car back into neutral. u can guess what happened
And more importantly, you car will start without the clutch pushed in? Must be an old car.
You don't need to put the car in neutral to start it, just depress the clutch. All cars nowadays, and for a long time, have had to be started this way.
i know i do not need to put the car into neutral to start it. im saying that i forgot to put the car back into neutral from first (or reverse) after i started the car. usually, i leave the car in neutral when i park so i step on the clutch to start the car, then release the clutch and everything is ok. but since i have been experimenting with trying to put the car in gear while parked, i forget that i left the car in gear, so when i let the clutch go, the car jumps, then stalls.
i'm trying to change from leaving it in neutral to putting in gear, since it seems like a good idea, but its hard for me to change my parking/starting ritual.
I lused to do so only about half the time... till I saw a manual in a movie theater parking lot roll out of the spot on a slight incline and nail a car behind it...
Must have been bad brakes or not applied all the way.
Must have been bad brakes or not applied all the way.
ZV, in many early cars, and I'm talking 50's-80's, it was emergency brake, not parking brake.Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Ever since I heard Cartalk recommend (and recommend seriously, not as a joke) flushing the radiator on an old 911 (yes, the air-cooled models) I really don't have much respect for them. Even when they agree with me.
An automatic has a separate assembly (the parking pawl) to hold the car when the transmission is in park, this is _not_ the same as the normal gearing and it does not feed through to the engine at all. It is a physical bolt-type lock that prevents the transmission output shaft from spinning. On steep hills, if the transmission rests on this parking pawl, you can seriously strain the linkage when you shift out of park because of the friction against disengaging the pawl.
I agree that both the transmission and the parking brake should be used. However the parking brake itself should always be the primary means of holding the car.
Regarding the brakes being stronger than the transmission: If your car has the parking brake on the same axle as the drive wheels, fully set the brake and then try to drive away. Properly set, you cannot. In fact, this is a classic "shade tree" method for testing a clutch. If the engine stalls with the parking brake engaged, the clutch is good. If the clutch slips, it needs to be replaced. With an automatic, it doesn't matter how much gas you give the engine, it should not be able to break free from a properly set parking brake.
Again, I agree that using both is necessary, but you're bass-ackwards on which should be the primary method.
As for you use of the term "emergency brake" as support for your position, it's a poor choice since the proper term, ever since the introduction of the device, has been "parking brake". "Emergency brake" became popular as a term with the advent of automatic transmissions in the early 1950's because most people stopped using this brake for its intended purpose. The parking brake is designed specifically to hold the car in place when it is parked. That's its primary design function.
ZV
They were originally called emergency brakes, because it was an emergency means of stopping the car if your hydraulic brake system failed.
So that is incorrect that the term only became popular when automatic transmissions became the norm.
As far as your example of trying to drive away with the brake set, you'd be testing the clutch then, not the transmission. And all cars that I've ever seen have the emergency brakes in the rear, so that example would only apply to rear-wheel-drive vehicles.
And most every car built with a decent V-8 will easily overpower the e-brake and move, especially if, like most cars, the e-brakes are drums.
Now this is, like you said, a good way to test the clutch because you'll be putting a strain on it for sure, but if the clutch is bad, you won't need that much resistance from the brakes to make it slip. But having the e-brake set and trying to move is just the same as power-braking to do a burnout. And plenty of cars can do that. Brakes can easily be overpowered.
And front wheel drive cars, I've seen plenty that could drag the locked-up rear wheels along just fine.
Either way, you're really off the topic here, because this actual point was which system was physically stronger, the e-brake or the transmission, and obviously the transmission is FAR stronger, so we're just arguing semantics here.
Parking pawls: Actually, this is not a bolt-through a hole system, but something that actually meshes with teeth on the output shaft. If you ever see one, you'll be amazed that something so small holds the whole car back. The fact of the matter is, a stick that is left in gear is basically the same thing. Gears meshed together.
Main difference? Unlike your example of trying to move a car with the brake set, if a parking pawl fails and won't disengage, you're stuck.....you ain't moving. Put it in gear and stomp the gas....you aren't moving unless it somehow breaks. So it's a much safer way to hold the car than an e-brake...although on hills I still recommend both.
Bottom line, we do agree that both should be used. But I'm sorry, you're the one who's bass-ackwards on which one is the primary. BTW, I've asked two different Ford District Service Engineers this question, and both say the e-brake, or parking brake if you like, is the backup, but both should be used.
And I'd have been a bit skeptical of the Car Talk dudes if I'd heard that about the 911 too, but then again, it's hard to tell when they are joking sometimes. They are pretty knowledgeable, and I hope they just weren't thinking about that specific car and just speaking in general terms...or joking. Otherwise, that was definitely dumb.
Take care.
Originally posted by: spanky
Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
What difference would it make? You don't push the clutch in when you start your car?Originally posted by: spanky
damn, i put my car in gear twice this weekend when i parked and when i went to start the car again, i forgot about popping the car back into neutral. u can guess what happened
And more importantly, you car will start without the clutch pushed in? Must be an old car.
You don't need to put the car in neutral to start it, just depress the clutch. All cars nowadays, and for a long time, have had to be started this way.
i know i do not need to put the car into neutral to start it. im saying that i forgot to put the car back into neutral from first (or reverse) after i started the car. usually, i leave the car in neutral when i park so i step on the clutch to start the car, then release the clutch and everything is ok. but since i have been experimenting with trying to put the car in gear while parked, i forget that i left the car in gear, so when i let the clutch go, the car jumps, then stalls.
i'm trying to change from leaving it in neutral to putting in gear, since it seems like a good idea, but its hard for me to change my parking/starting ritual.
Oh. I thought you meant you started it in gear and it took off. My old Jeep you can do that with...I can reach in from outside and start it....not that I would.
I guess I just should have replied with a DOH!!!!
That's pretty much everyting I've been saying, although you said it better. I was trying to not be so technical.
That is incorrect. The "car" is in gear if the transmission is in gear, period. Doesn't matter if the engine is running or not.
If the trans is in gear, the clutch is engaged (not depressed), then the car is effectively in "park".
Edit: And if these conditions exist, and you DON'T have the brake on too and you're on an incline, then you won't be able to shift the transmission out of gear without the car rolling.
Originally posted by: virtualgames0
OK, so why am I able to switch gears without pressing the clutch while my engine is off?
If you are on flat ground, or if you have the e-brake engaged, then you can do it. Some vehicles have a pretty high rolling resistance, and I've seen vehicles that wouldn't roll in neutral on a slight incline.
If you park on any decent hill, and you don't have the e-brake on, and I'm assuming you don't have your foot on the brake...then if you take the trans out of gear, that car is going to roll.
edited: no such thing as a flat incline like I originally wrote
yhelothar
Lifer
- Dec 11, 2002
- 18,409
- 40
- 91
Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Originally posted by: virtualgames0
OK, so why am I able to switch gears without pressing the clutch while my engine is off?
If you are on flat ground, or if you have the e-brake engaged, then you can do it. Some vehicles have a pretty high rolling resistance, and I've seen vehicles that wouldn't roll in neutral on a slight incline.
If you park on any decent hill, and you don't have the e-brake on, and I'm assuming you don't have your foot on the brake...then if you take the trans out of gear, that car is going to roll.
edited: no such thing as a flat incline like I originally wrote
I'll have to try that.. thanks
My car rolled on me about two months ago. Apparently the e-brake was loose and I didn't put it in gear that day. A bout two hours later my girlfriends roomate comes in and asks if I can move my car? I'm thinking to myself how it could possibly be in her way. Then she says it is sticking half way into the street. Luckily as soon as it got to level ground it got hung up and thank god therew was no traffic, etc. Figures the one day I leave it in neutral I almost have a catastrophy on my hands.
Aquila76
Diamond Member
On my car, you have to have the clutch engaged, even if it's in neutral, to start the car. No remote start for my car even if I wanted one.
I wonder why it is recommended to push the clutch in, when starting the car (even if it's in neutral)? I have a small 4-cylinder pickup, and I can start the engine without pushing the clutch in... so long as it's in neutral of course, and the parking brake is engaged. It's not old either, as it's a 2003 model.
It's a "safety feature" pretty much solely to protect the idiots who either can't remember to put it in neutral when starting or can't remember to push the clutch. As an added bonus, you can no longer use the starter to jog the car, either.
Damn, what a long ass thread. Park in 1st or reverse with the brake on, it's not that freakin' hard people!!!!!!
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