For those w/ kids, is a wagon/minivan/crossover a must? Can a midsize sedan suffice?

[rdp6]

If this is still up in the air for the OP, consider this:
Getting the minivan is tantamount to saying: I am committed to providing logistical support comparable to the US Army for my baby, who really could get by with a lightweight changing kit, a backpack with clothes and spare pacifier and bag for dirty items and a small cooler for food & milk. I don't mind making at least 3 trips to the car every time we load up to go anywhere.

BTW, the trunk of a sedan is a fine place to change diapers, at least when it is not snowing. Also, grandparents will make a place in their home for spare toiletries and a pack & play. They'll buy plenty of toys, bibs, baby tableware, etc.

 

[StageLeft]

I wish they made more cars like the Mazda 5 with the sliding door for the reasons Slew Foot said. I feel like everyone makes the same stupid cars with the same stupid problems. No one really makes anything new or offers something different. There's hardly any wagons to buy at all, and many of the options are expensive luxury vehicles like Volvos.

This is true. The 5 can definitely fit some needs pretty well, and sliding doors are awesome.

the new Mazda5 looks like ass:

FACT

Not sure if the target demographic to those swagger wagon commercials (at least partly consisting of people who've not yet bought a minivan and probably don't want to but feel they may need to) responds to them, but that rap is good stuff.

obamanation...Overall, even if you use two Prius vehicles over one minivan for family trips

Is this guy for real? What sort of fvcked up family goes on a driving vacation in two vehicles?

Why would I want to tool around town without my spouse and half my kids?

You don't hedge your bets? Certainly you must be able to see the benefit of having Mom and Amanda in one car and Dad and Kaitlin in another so that if Mom and Amanda die in a fiery blaze the family is still 50%, don't you? And it should be easy enough to explain this to Amanda and Kaitlin that you're taking two cars so that if Daddy and Kaitlin are crushed under an 18 wheeler Mommy and Amanda will still be ok.

So, when I think back on all the trips I've gone on whether they were in people haulers (like a bus or 15 passenger van) or in cars, I found that the trip was far more pleasant for everyone involved when the number of people (ESPECIALLY CHILDREN) is kept to a minimum. Part of the reason for this is because each child gets more time to talk with the adult where the adult doesn't have to censor themselves for an entire group of people. One can get a lot more "face time" (so to speak) when there aren't a bunch of people crowding out each other in the conversation. There are certain things people won't say in front of an audience of 50 or even 8 people but will say when there are 3 or 4 people.

Fvck it. I am honestly LMFAO. You have the exact same pedantic, minutiae-obsessed lunacy to your views and posts as fleabag. Per PricklyPete, are you another account by the same guy who owns fleabag's?

OK, I know some friends who just bought an Econoline 350 passenger van. It seats 12. It gets apparently something stupid like 16 mpg highway. Let's assume they have 7 kids. Let's further assume one is of driving age. Would they better suited going on a large trip in the single van or owning THREE Priuses, when in fact even all three will take less gas per mile than the single Econoline?

BTW don't answer that question. I'm just asking as a joke.

 

[obamanation]

What sort of fvcked up family goes on a driving vacation in two vehicles?You don't hedge your bets? Certainly you must be able to see the benefit of having Mom and Amanda in one car and Dad and Kaitlin in another so that if Mom and Amanda die in a fiery blaze the family is still 50%, don't you? And it should be easy enough to explain this to Amanda and Kaitlin that you're taking two cars so that if Daddy and Kaitlin are crushed under an 18 wheeler Mommy and Amanda will still be ok.

Well a family of 12 that already has 3+ reasonably sized vehicles might very well do that.. Unless you're dropping off 12 second graders every day to school, there is no need for a 15 passenger van for a family of 12 because this van will rarely get fully utilized. I know you guys love to think about all the great shit you'll do with your kids and why you need that damn behemoth but to be frank, for the majority of the time, it will be underutilized which means it's a fucking waste.
To answer the second part of your question, if your children are "too soft" to take the cold harsh reality, why not play the positives and point out that the girls will listen to girly music and talk about girly things and that you (the kid) probably don't want to have to hear that kind of stuff. When it comes to family, it's definitely better to have boys ride with boys and girls ride with girls.

OK, I know some friends who just bought an Econoline 350 passenger van. It seats 12. It gets apparently something stupid like 16 mpg highway. Let's assume they have 7 kids. Let's further assume one is of driving age. Would they better suited going on a large trip in the single van or owning THREE Priuses, when in fact even all three will take less gas per mile than the single Econoline?

BTW don't answer that question. I'm just asking as a joke.

Why can't this "family" just rent a damn vehicle? Like I said, how often does this family of TWELVE ALL GO TO THE SAME PLACE? Talk about minutiae, your logic is as bad as the logic people have for getting a 4WD vehicle even though they'll never see dirt in the vehicle's entire lifetime. You people seriously overestimate how often you'll utilize a vehicle's abilities and overestimate the cost to rent a vehicle vs. owning one. When people are defending the position of having one of these large vehicles over a smaller vehicle, they say the fuel savings aren't enough but they use that as the excuse because it seems simple enough. However, they're not considering a few important things that come along with owning one of these vehicles.

Want a laundry list of these things?
1. Gas (already discussed)
2. Maintenance
3. Insurance (though minivans can have lower liability rates than some vehicles)
4. Registration
5. Environmental cost (nobody wants to think about this one because they feel they live in a bubble when really it's all in their heads)

All of those things are significantly more expensive for a larger vehicle compared to a smaller vehicle. Even repairs for something like a car accident is much more expensive for these larger vehicles. I don't have issue with people driving these vehicles at all, except when it's one of these vehicles with 4 people in it and the rest of the vehicle is completely empty because the whole family is headed for the grocery store or some other such nonsense. You don't need a huge vehicle to accomplish everyday tasks, especially for a family of 2! Ridiculous!

 

[Bignate603]

Well a family of 12 that already has 3+ reasonably sized vehicles might very well do that.. Unless you're dropping off 12 second graders every day to school, there is no need for a 15 passenger van for a family of 12 because this van will rarely get fully utilized. I know you guys love to think about all the great shit you'll do with your kids and why you need that damn behemoth but to be frank, for the majority of the time, it will be underutilized which means it's a fucking waste.

Most families are taking the whole family places at least once a week and the majority will do it even more than that.

To answer the second part of your question, if your children are "too soft" to take the cold harsh reality, why not play the positives and point out that the girls will listen to girly music and talk about girly things and that you (the kid) probably don't want to have to hear that kind of stuff. When it comes to family, it's definitely better to have boys ride with boys and girls ride with girls.

Or a family can actually learn to get along? This has nothing about being 'too soft'. You've repeatedly ignored people saying that they want to actually be with their families and that it's easier to have two parents there when you're dealing with multiple younger kids.

Why can't this "family" just rent a damn vehicle? Like I said, how often does this family of TWELVE ALL GO TO THE SAME PLACE?

Because they'd end up renting a vehicle multiple times a week. Families do things together. Financially it's a poor choice and if you're doing it constantly your wasted time adds up. Unless you live within walking distance to a rental place you need to drive over, get the rental, and then drive back. You can't take everyone with you to the rental place and leave from there because you don't have a car that fits everyone.

It makes sense to rent for the less common things like a road trip or vacation but if you're looking at doing it multiple times a month it will cost more and you'll waste tons of time.

Talk about minutiae, your logic is as bad as the logic people have for getting a 4WD vehicle even though they'll never see dirt in the vehicle's entire lifetime. You people seriously overestimate how often you'll utilize a vehicle's abilities and overestimate the cost to rent a vehicle vs. owning one. When people are defending the position of having one of these large vehicles over a smaller vehicle, they say the fuel savings aren't enough but they use that as the excuse because it seems simple enough. However, they're not considering a few important things that come along with owning one of these vehicles.

Want a laundry list of these things?
1. Gas (already discussed)
2. Maintenance
3. Insurance (though minivans can have lower liability rates than some vehicles)
4. Registration
5. Environmental cost (nobody wants to think about this one because they feel they live in a bubble when really it's all in their heads)

All of those things are significantly more expensive for a larger vehicle compared to a smaller vehicle. Even repairs for something like a car accident is much more expensive for these larger vehicles. I don't have issue with people driving these vehicles at all, except when it's one of these vehicles with 4 people in it and the rest of the vehicle is completely empty because the whole family is headed for the grocery store or some other such nonsense. You don't need a huge vehicle to accomplish everyday tasks, especially for a family of 2! Ridiculous!

Again, most families are doing something together on a weekly basis, especially while the kids are younger. That's not an overestimate, it's a fact.

The original topic was minivans so your discussion of increased prices aren't completely true.

1. Gas - I'll give you that, it burns more gas. However, minivans aren't significantly worse than many of the larger sedans or wagons that you'll be cross shopping them against.
2. Maintenance - On minivans the increased cost of maintenance isn't that bad. On my van the parts aren't really any more expensive than car parts and it hasn't needed any more work than a car of similar mileage and age. Anyways, if you're doing things often with your whole family the maintenance costs per mile for one larger vehicle will be better than two smaller vehicles. When you've got two oil changes, two brake jobs, and two of everything else it really adds up.
3. Insurance - It's not just liability that's cheaper. Minivans are cheaper to insure across the board. They aren't stolen as much as other cars and the typical driver is driving it pretty conservatively. Don't believe me? Look here, 7 of the top 20 cheapest are minivans. A good chunk of the rest are relatively boring cross overs.
4. Registration - On a minivan it's not any more expensive than a car in every state that I've been in
5. Environmental costs - You're ignoring the environmental costs as well, battery packs don't manufacture or recycle themselves.

As I stated before, with 1 or 2 kids you don't really need much more than a sedan or wagon but a minivan starts looking really good when you've got 3 or more kids.

 

[Elfear]

Most families are taking the whole family places at least once a week and the majority will do it even more than that.



Or a family can actually learn to get along? This has nothing about being 'too soft'. You've repeatedly ignored people saying that they want to actually be with their families and that it's easier to have two parents there when you're dealing with multiple younger kids.

Because they'd end up renting a vehicle multiple times a week. Families do things together. Financially it's a poor choice and if you're doing it constantly your wasted time adds up. Unless you live within walking distance to a rental place you need to drive over, get the rental, and then drive back. You can't take everyone with you to the rental place and leave from there because you don't have a car that fits everyone.

It makes sense to rent for the less common things like a road trip or vacation but if you're looking at doing it multiple times a month it will cost more and you'll waste tons of time.

Again, most families are doing something together on a weekly basis, especially while the kids are younger. That's not an overestimate, it's a fact.

The original topic was minivans so your discussion of increased prices aren't completely true.

1. Gas - I'll give you that, it burns more gas. However, minivans aren't significantly worse than many of the larger sedans or wagons that you'll be cross shopping them against.
2. Maintenance - On minivans the increased cost of maintenance isn't that bad. On my van the parts aren't really any more expensive than car parts and it hasn't needed any more work than a car of similar mileage and age. Anyways, if you're doing things often with your whole family the maintenance costs per mile for one larger vehicle will be better than two smaller vehicles. When you've got two oil changes, two brake jobs, and two of everything else it really adds up.
3. Insurance - It's not just liability that's cheaper. Minivans are cheaper to insure across the board. They aren't stolen as much as other cars and the typical driver is driving it pretty conservatively. Don't believe me? Look here, 7 of the top 20 cheapest are minivans. A good chunk of the rest are relatively boring cross overs.
4. Registration - On a minivan it's not any more expensive than a car in every state that I've been in
5. Environmental costs - You're ignoring the environmental costs as well, battery packs don't manufacture or recycle themselves.

As I stated before, with 1 or 2 kids you don't really need much more than a sedan or wagon but a minivan starts looking really good when you've got 3 or more kids.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[bigi]

Minivans are freaking awesome though, big, comfy, roomy, quiet, safe vehicles that get surprisingly good fuel economy along with dirt-cheap insurance (and invisible to cops). Yeah they don't look cool and they're not going to Laguna Seca anytime soon, but who gives a shit what anyone else thinks, it's about you and your kids.

+1. This should really be end of this thread.