For the stick shifters out there, at how many RPMs do you shift?

[boyRacer]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: rudder

among other things. If you make it a habit to shift at the redline, it won't be long before the car is in the shop, unless you are driving a mazda rx-7!

Are those things exceptionally bulletproof?

Previous generations before the FD seem bulletproof... the 13b on the FD is practically a time bomb no matter what you do to it... it will fail someday even if it takes long... ...dunno but i guess that impractical part adds appeal to its character. its a sweet car when its working though...

 

[Jzero]

the 13b on the FD is practically a time bomb no matter what you do to it... it will fail someday even if it takes long...

LOL. Couldn't the same be said of any part of any car?

 

[boyRacer]

Originally posted by: Jzero

the 13b on the FD is practically a time bomb no matter what you do to it... it will fail someday even if it takes long...

LOL. Couldn't the same be said of any part of any car?

Yeah but a piston engine is more tolerable when it comes to knock and pinging... one of those can put a rotary out of whack... ...or at least the one in the FD for that matter. The earlier RX-7s that weren't boosted seem to last forever though. The new renesis engine should be a lot better in terms or reliability... but it's NA as well.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Wolfie
Cars have a transmission that have "syncro"s that do the meshing for you. They are made of a brass matterial that sit between the gears in a manual transmission. After a while you will wear these out of you don't do the gearshift at the right RPM. Tractor Trailer trucks or large trucks do NOT have syncros. When you are taught how to drive a large truck, they tell you to never use the clutch. Only to start off from a stop. And even then, they tell you to get off the clutch as soon as you can.

Reason for this in large trucks is because the springs in the clutch puts too much pressure on the throwout bearing when you hold in the clutch. Wich will lead to premature wear. If you talk to an experianced truck driver that has drivin for a while, they can push 500,000 miles or more out of a clutch. This is not just because of all the hwy miles. It's because they don't use the clutch. Upshifting is easy this way. But it takes practice to downshift without the clutch.

If you know what you are doing, it won't hurt anything.

Wolfie

Oh, and the only thing I drive with a stick is a Tractor Trailer. And depending on the motor, anywhere between 1400 and 1800 RPMs. Cars are all different. Check the manual for the proper "speed" for each gear. It might even tell you what RPM to change gears at.

Driving a tractor trailer is a wee bit different that driving a car with a stick shift.

The clamping force necessary on the pressure plate for something like a Peterbilt is enormous, otherwise there'd be massive clutch slip because of the diesel's high torque and the heavy loads. Not only that, but with a semi tractor's diesel engine there's maybe 1,500 RPM available to play with between idle and redline, while a car has easily three times that much. There's more room for a mistake when rev-matching in a car, plus the transmission in cars aren't exactly as robust as a semi tractor's transmission. Also, with vastly lower clamping forces on a car's pressure plate, the throwout bearing isn't worn nearly as much when the clutch is cycled. Heck, even double clutching (the most common method in a car for overcoming a lack of synchromesh) doesn't cause the throwout bearing to wear prematurely in a car.

While clutchless shifting is perfectly benign when done properly, it has an exceptionally low tolerance for mistakes assuming a normal automotive drivetrain.

ZV

 

[Wolfie]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Wolfie
Cars have a transmission that have "syncro"s that do the meshing for you. They are made of a brass matterial that sit between the gears in a manual transmission. After a while you will wear these out of you don't do the gearshift at the right RPM. Tractor Trailer trucks or large trucks do NOT have syncros. When you are taught how to drive a large truck, they tell you to never use the clutch. Only to start off from a stop. And even then, they tell you to get off the clutch as soon as you can.

Reason for this in large trucks is because the springs in the clutch puts too much pressure on the throwout bearing when you hold in the clutch. Wich will lead to premature wear. If you talk to an experianced truck driver that has drivin for a while, they can push 500,000 miles or more out of a clutch. This is not just because of all the hwy miles. It's because they don't use the clutch. Upshifting is easy this way. But it takes practice to downshift without the clutch.

If you know what you are doing, it won't hurt anything.

Wolfie

Oh, and the only thing I drive with a stick is a Tractor Trailer. And depending on the motor, anywhere between 1400 and 1800 RPMs. Cars are all different. Check the manual for the proper "speed" for each gear. It might even tell you what RPM to change gears at.

Driving a tractor trailer is a wee bit different that driving a car with a stick shift.

The clamping force necessary on the pressure plate for something like a Peterbilt is enormous, otherwise there'd be massive clutch slip because of the diesel's high torque and the heavy loads. Not only that, but with a semi tractor's diesel engine there's maybe 1,500 RPM available to play with between idle and redline, while a car has easily three times that much. There's more room for a mistake when rev-matching in a car, plus the transmission in cars aren't exactly as robust as a semi tractor's transmission. Also, with vastly lower clamping forces on a car's pressure plate, the throwout bearing isn't worn nearly as much when the clutch is cycled. Heck, even double clutching (the most common method in a car for overcoming a lack of synchromesh) doesn't cause the throwout bearing to wear prematurely in a car.

While clutchless shifting is perfectly benign when done properly, it has an exceptionally low tolerance for mistakes assuming a normal automotive drivetrain.

ZV

I agree with everything you say. I was just tring to explain why it is not such a bad thing if you don't use your clutch. It just takes practice to do it "correctly" without causing wear on your sycros. One thing about Truck transmissions that I should have mentioned before was no matter if you use your clutch when shifting gears or not, if you don't stick the shifter into the gear at the right time, it will not go into gear. This is also because it is not a sycro tranny. This is why you can change gears in your car without "droping it into gear" at the right RPM. The sycros take care of the differences in speed.

I guess it's hard to explain over words. You just have to know how transmissions work.

Wolfie

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Nissan 240sx with a truck engine... I shift at 3000 almost all the time. Sometimes I'll go to 3500, or shift at 2800 if traffic is going slow. If I'm merging I'll keep stay in 4th gear. I don't really shift by ear. If I try, I end up in too high a gear.

 

[toant103]

Originally posted by: joe678

Originally posted by: datalink7
Real men shift at the redline

yea boyeee... im a redline guy myself...

not now, gas price are crazy

 

[Supermercado]

Dunno. There's not a tach in my car. I just do it when it feels and sounds right.

 

[slikmunks]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: rudder

among other things. If you make it a habit to shift at the redline, it won't be long before the car is in the shop, unless you are driving a mazda rx-7!

Are those things exceptionally bulletproof?

No, it's just that a rotary tolerates over-rev much better than a reciprocating (piston) engine. In a rotary, the rotors are only spinning at 1/3 of the speed of the eccentric shaft (a rotary's eccentric shaft is analogous to a reciprocating engine's crankshaft), plus there's no valvetrain in a rotary and it's the valvetrain that really limits RPMs in most street engines. Over-rev in a reciprocating engine and you're likely to swallow a valve or something.

That said, almost all modern cars have a rev-limiter which won't permit the engine to sping fast enough under load to damage itself. While it's true that there is increased wear on the engine at redline, since you're shifting once you hit redline and not staying at redline all day there is really very little effect on an engine's longevity by shifting at redline.

ZV

also, sometimes people put rev limiters on their cars because you drop past your peak power level after a certain rpm, which was the case when i had my cats on... but now, with my header/presilencer on, i can wind it up and make power up to 9krpm...

Originally posted by: boyRacer

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: rudder

among other things. If you make it a habit to shift at the redline, it won't be long before the car is in the shop, unless you are driving a mazda rx-7!

Are those things exceptionally bulletproof?

Previous generations before the FD seem bulletproof... the 13b on the FD is practically a time bomb no matter what you do to it... it will fail someday even if it takes long... ...dunno but i guess that impractical part adds appeal to its character. its a sweet car when its working though...

it's a problem of an exceptionally hot engine bay that clogs the precats (for those that don't go w/ a dwonpipe) or the cats (for those that don't go w/ a mp) that makes all the hoses harder than rocks unless you replace them with silicon hoses... and then start adding boost issues... if you've got a MP, you've gotta worry about boost creep, not enough fuel, and then if you get bigger injectors, you have to get new rails and a new pump, by then, after all that, you'll want to fork over the $$ to go single turbo, then you've gotta tune it... and the problems keep on coming with that... so unless you take care of it to begin with, i GUESS you could say it's prone to having problems...

Originally posted by: boyRacer

Originally posted by: Jzero

the 13b on the FD is practically a time bomb no matter what you do to it... it will fail someday even if it takes long...

LOL. Couldn't the same be said of any part of any car?

Yeah but a piston engine is more tolerable when it comes to knock and pinging... one of those can put a rotary out of whack... ...or at least the one in the FD for that matter. The earlier RX-7s that weren't boosted seem to last forever though. The new renesis engine should be a lot better in terms or reliability... but it's NA as well.

aren't pinging and knock the same thing? both refer to detonation, don't they? too much air, not enough fuel, or not high enough octane fuel? and yes, they're bad for rotaries... it's a boost thing but if you take care of boost, the engine will last pretty decently... unless of course, you're making major power, where your engine will have increased wear and tear... more hp means more wear and tear on the engine... and you're right, N/A engines seem less prone to knock b/c they're not boosted, which was one of the things i took into account when getting my car... i'm in college rite now, need a daily driver, don't want to have to get an engine rebuild anytime soon, that would suck major nuts

 

[Wolfie]

I always loved those wankle engines. Speclie when they had them in old Snowmobiles.

 

[KokomoGST]

I'm trying to shift lower in the rpm range lately... it's too easy to break the law after the turbo spools.

Gotta tall 2nd gear that goes till 74mph so if I shift at redline there...
well, umm....

I try to shift to keep off boost... I wish I had an even taller 5th gear or 6th gear. On the highway it feels like the car constantly wants you to just stomp it and :Q

 

[slikmunks]

Originally posted by: KokomoGST
I'm trying to shift lower in the rpm range lately... it's too easy to break the law after the turbo spools.

Gotta tall 2nd gear that goes till 74mph so if I shift at redline there...
well, umm....

I try to shift to keep off boost... I wish I had an even taller 5th gear or 6th gear. On the highway it feels like the car constantly wants you to just stomp it and :Q

i kno what you mean, without the boost, of course... and then when i'm trying to keep my speed down, when i get on the freeway, my speedo somehow always manages to creep up to 95, before i see it and say WHOAH, tickets != good

 

[Ausm]

Originally posted by: datalink7
Real men shift at the redline

Right before your motor jumps in the seat beside ya

Ausm

 

[Ausm]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: LeRocks Real men don't use the clutch with a manual.

You're stupid.

I agree it is stupid but also possible.

Ausm

 

[Kntx]

8300 everytime!

 

[jeffrey]

3,000 rpm's is just not enough! (At least for a rice-burner)

I drive a manual 98 Honda Civic EX V-Tec and the only time that I would shift at a 3,000 rpm would be in a neighborhood. In first gear I normally shift between 5,000 and 6,000. In second probably between 4,500 and 5,500. Third probably the same as second. Fith gear for me is only for highway driving, or conserving gas.
Readline is around 7,000 and V-tec cam doesn't switch over until around 4,500.

3,000 rpm's would be fine in my previous car, a manual 87 IROC Z-28 305. The redline in that car was around 5,000.

BTW I have had NO problems shifting around 5,500 or 6,000 rpms and have had my Civic for around 5 years now. It has never required service that was not routine. On the other hand, my IROC that I shifted at 3,000 broke at least once a month (granted it was used).

The only way I can live from going from a 5.0L V-8 to a 1.6L I4 is to make sure that I DO IN FACT ENSURE that I shift after I hit the second set of camshaft lobes (v-tec) on my current car.

_____
For the record........ I do NOT have a fart-pipe, a wing, or Type R stickers!

 

[slikmunks]

Originally posted by: Kntx
8300 everytime!

that can't be too great for the longevity of your engine.........

 

[brtspears2]

I wouldn't know, my Porsche 914 doesn't have a working tach at the moment, but I just to keep it calm and not to make it sound like the engine is getting beat up.

 

[PhaZe]

I shift around 2.2k rpm. Gas is expensive

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: notfred
At the racetrack? When stuck in traffic on the freeway? When driving casually through a neighborhood?

if you just want a generic number, then between 1500 and 6000 RPM is pretty normal.

Also, the number 3000 is completely arbitrary. 3000 is a lot higher in a car that redlines at 4500 than an S2000 that redlines at 8000.

redline for s2k is 9000 rpm.

 

[gregshin]

whenever i think my Blow off vavle is loud enough to catch a chick's attention

 

[boyRacer]

Originally posted by: gregshin
whenever i think my Blow off vavle is loud enough to catch a chick's attention

There was this guy in an eclipse GS-T that always romps around campus with his BOV going nuts... he passed by these two girls one time... and they didn't even look... all they said was..."What's wrong with his car?"

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

When it sounds right

 

[slikmunks]

Originally posted by: boyRacer

Originally posted by: gregshin
whenever i think my Blow off vavle is loud enough to catch a chick's attention

There was this guy in an eclipse GS-T that always romps around campus with his BOV going nuts... he passed by these two girls one time... and they didn't even look... all they said was..."What's wrong with his car?"

lol!! hahaha...

 

[boyRacer]

Originally posted by: boyRacer

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: rudder

among other things. If you make it a habit to shift at the redline, it won't be long before the car is in the shop, unless you are driving a mazda rx-7!

Are those things exceptionally bulletproof?

Previous generations before the FD seem bulletproof... the 13b on the FD is practically a time bomb no matter what you do to it... it will fail someday even if it takes long... ...dunno but i guess that impractical part adds appeal to its character. its a sweet car when its working though...

it's a problem of an exceptionally hot engine bay that clogs the precats (for those that don't go w/ a dwonpipe) or the cats (for those that don't go w/ a mp) that makes all the hoses harder than rocks unless you replace them with silicon hoses... and then start adding boost issues... if you've got a MP, you've gotta worry about boost creep, not enough fuel, and then if you get bigger injectors, you have to get new rails and a new pump, by then, after all that, you'll want to fork over the $$ to go single turbo, then you've gotta tune it... and the problems keep on coming with that... so unless you take care of it to begin with, i GUESS you could say it's prone to having problems...

Originally posted by: boyRacer

Originally posted by: Jzero

the 13b on the FD is practically a time bomb no matter what you do to it... it will fail someday even if it takes long...

LOL. Couldn't the same be said of any part of any car?

Yeah but a piston engine is more tolerable when it comes to knock and pinging... one of those can put a rotary out of whack... ...or at least the one in the FD for that matter. The earlier RX-7s that weren't boosted seem to last forever though. The new renesis engine should be a lot better in terms or reliability... but it's NA as well.

aren't pinging and knock the same thing? both refer to detonation, don't they? too much air, not enough fuel, or not high enough octane fuel? and yes, they're bad for rotaries... it's a boost thing but if you take care of boost, the engine will last pretty decently... unless of course, you're making major power, where your engine will have increased wear and tear... more hp means more wear and tear on the engine... and you're right, N/A engines seem less prone to knock b/c they're not boosted, which was one of the things i took into account when getting my car... i'm in college rite now, need a daily driver, don't want to have to get an engine rebuild anytime soon, that would suck major nuts[/quote]

engine knock has that pinging noise so i put it in there anyway... but yep both lead to detonation. I'm sure rotaries can last long if taken cared of... but i also think that a piston engine taken cared off the same exact way would probably last longer. you have an FC right? id love to have those as my track day car...