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For the stick shifters out there, at how many RPMs do you shift?
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??&/<iginally posted by: BlinderBomber[/i]
Not if he knows what he's doing. Once you learn you can actually shift a car without ever using the clutch and cause no damage. My mom's best friend can do it; evidently he can hear it in the engine. (and no, he's not a moron. He builds components for NASA and many major race cars. Before that he used to build cars from scratch just for fun. He knows more about cars than I ever thought anyone could learn).[/quote]
I can't say that I've ever done this, only read about it. One day I'll rent a car and try 😉 (and no, i'm not serious, so don't tell me i'm stupid 🙂)
Not if he knows what he's doing. Once you learn you can actually shift a car without ever using the clutch and cause no damage. My mom's best friend can do it; evidently he can hear it in the engine. (and no, he's not a moron. He builds components for NASA and many major race cars. Before that he used to build cars from scratch just for fun. He knows more about cars than I ever thought anyone could learn).[/quote]
I can't say that I've ever done this, only read about it. One day I'll rent a car and try 😉 (and no, i'm not serious, so don't tell me i'm stupid 🙂)
Mrpilot007
Senior member
You know it man! That is only for us truck drivers or people who understand how synchronizers work.
synchronizers
It doesn't hurt anything by doing this. Obviously you need a clutch to start from a stop.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
No, it's just that a rotary tolerates over-rev much better than a reciprocating (piston) engine. In a rotary, the rotors are only spinning at 1/3 of the speed of the eccentric shaft (a rotary's eccentric shaft is analogous to a reciprocating engine's crankshaft), plus there's no valvetrain in a rotary and it's the valvetrain that really limits RPMs in most street engines. Over-rev in a reciprocating engine and you're likely to swallow a valve or something.
That said, almost all modern cars have a rev-limiter which won't permit the engine to sping fast enough under load to damage itself. While it's true that there is increased wear on the engine at redline, since you're shifting once you hit redline and not staying at redline all day there is really very little effect on an engine's longevity by shifting at redline.
ZV
I did not say that it wasn't possible to shift gears without the clutch. I still maintain that LeRocks comment was stupid. You cannot drive a manual transmission car without the clutch. You can do the 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, 4-5, and if available 5-6 shifts without the clutch. However, you can not get the car into 1st gear without the clutch. I used to do that for fun in a truck I had, however it didn't make me any more of a "real man" either. Insisting that people do things the hardest possible way, not because it's better, but only because it's harder, is stupid, IMO. It's like saying "real men don't use the starter motor, they know how to push start a car.... Open the door, start pushing, when you get to a running speed jump in and pop the clutch. The car will start, and you didn't have to use the starter motor, now you're a real man!"
The starter motor and the clutch are both there for a reason.
Demon-Xanth
Lifer
Some transmissions are made for it, and if you get the RPMs matched it can actually be very smooth. I pulled off the smoothest upshift I've ever done, thought to myself "damn that was smooth" and realized I forgot to use the clutch. I can usually get into 2nd easily w/o a clutch because 1000RPM==10MPH. I just match the numbers and slide it on in. Some of the noisier transmissions you can hear when the proper gears are turning at the correct speed, those make it easier.
BeauJangles
Lifer
I can't say that I've ever done this, only read about it. One day I'll rent a car and try 😉 (and no, i'm not serious, so don't tell me i'm stupid 🙂)[/quote]
Hahaahaha that would be hilarious.
Rental guy: It seems the car's clutch is totallly gone and, now that i mention it, i had some guys look at the gear box, and the gears are stripped.
You: Ahhhh.... yeah..... about.... that.... *runs*
Zenmervolt
Elite member
Still harder on the shift forks when you don't use the clutch. Besides, double-clutching is much more fun than clutchless. 🙂 😉
ZV
Sure. There's going to be one engine speed where the gears will mesh. Theoretically if you just put light pressure on the shifter and modulate the engine speed, it will just drop right into gear at one point. I was reading an article by a guy who claimed to be so adept at doing it that sometimes he would stall at red lights/stop signs b/c he would forget to step on the clutch when he came to a stop.
Although I would argue in support of NotFred's notion that doing so is just stupid. The clutch was created as a [relatively] cheap disposable part which allows you to change gears without any chance of damaging the engine/transmission. It's there for a reason. One of these days you might screw up doing a clutchless shift and just jam the thing into gear and bust something really expensive.
I have had friends who were into powershifting but really I never saw the point, all you really have to do is blip the clutch to to "safe" when switching out of any gear, which is usually the practice that I follow....
maybe if I get an absolute beater I will hone my power shifting skills, but for now I just doing see it as being worth the trouble trying to match rpms and all that jazz
maybe if I get an absolute beater I will hone my power shifting skills, but for now I just doing see it as being worth the trouble trying to match rpms and all that jazz
Demon-Xanth
Lifer
Power shifting is just not lifting the throttle when you shift. I can safely do that in mine because of the fact that I don't shift at red line and have a largish drive train that can take some abuse.
Sorry, my bad...I always confuse power shifting with clutchless shifting, alot of my friends intermixed the term and it has been a while since I really cared about autos in a serious way....never really cared for power shifting either though as it was never worth it for me to bother with it.
When I had a stick shift many years ago, a mechanic told me to shift at 3000 or above, because always shifting at 2000 or so isn't good for it. I'm a moron when it comes to cars, so I have no idea if there's any truth to that at all. Maybe he wanted me to ruin my transmission so he could have more business.
Wolfie
Platinum Member
Nothing stupid about it.
Cars have a transmission that have "syncro"s that do the meshing for you. They are made of a brass matterial that sit between the gears in a manual transmission. After a while you will wear these out of you don't do the gearshift at the right RPM. Tractor Trailer trucks or large trucks do NOT have syncros. When you are taught how to drive a large truck, they tell you to never use the clutch. Only to start off from a stop. And even then, they tell you to get off the clutch as soon as you can.
Reason for this in large trucks is because the springs in the clutch puts too much pressure on the throwout bearing when you hold in the clutch. Wich will lead to premature wear. If you talk to an experianced truck driver that has drivin for a while, they can push 500,000 miles or more out of a clutch. This is not just because of all the hwy miles. It's because they don't use the clutch. Upshifting is easy this way. But it takes practice to downshift without the clutch.
If you know what you are doing, it won't hurt anything.
Wolfie
Oh, and the only thing I drive with a stick is a Tractor Trailer. And depending on the motor, anywhere between 1400 and 1800 RPMs. Cars are all different. Check the manual for the proper "speed" for each gear. It might even tell you what RPM to change gears at.
Electric Amish
Elite Member
Usually somewhere between 3-4k on my Probe.
amish
amish
Evadman
Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Depends. if it is normal driving about 3500-4000 unless I am crusing at 40 or more, then it goes in 5th, which could be as low as 2000. If I am accelerating like this morning into flowing traffic, about 5000-5500. if I am going like a bat out of hell and need to get the hell out of someone's way, then 6500, or when the shift light pops on which is at redline. (6750 rpm)
Car = suzuki sidekick with 1.6l 4 banger with about 10 hp.
Car = suzuki sidekick with 1.6l 4 banger with about 10 hp.
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