Yeah, it sits there alright, BBD with a few unwanted modifications! 
I know what ya mean, Ferocious. We had a 68 Camaro and it was way too small. But I only bought it for investment purposes. It got stolen before I could cash in, though.
I know what ya mean, Ferocious. We had a 68 Camaro and it was way too small. But I only bought it for investment purposes. It got stolen before I could cash in, though.
<<The thing is Static911, that some true blue Americans go ape when other Americans buy imports instead of buying American. Go ahead and work for GM, Ford or Chrysler and see what happens when you park your import in the employee parking lot!
I don't agree with those people. I say that you should buy the best quality product at the best price no matter who makes it. I'm all for totally free trade. It's best for consumers.>>
Ornery, I don't know if you ever go NEW car shopping but all new cars are required to list country of manufacture and how much each car was built in the US and Japan respectively (on the MSRP sticker). Brand means NOTHING. Go look at those stickers and you will find half of "american" cars are built 60% in Japan, and more than half of "Japanesse" cars are built 60% or more in the US. Toyota is usually 80% american in general with almost every GM car I looked at 50% american or less (all GM does in this country anymore is final assembly).
I don't agree with those people. I say that you should buy the best quality product at the best price no matter who makes it. I'm all for totally free trade. It's best for consumers.>>
Ornery, I don't know if you ever go NEW car shopping but all new cars are required to list country of manufacture and how much each car was built in the US and Japan respectively (on the MSRP sticker). Brand means NOTHING. Go look at those stickers and you will find half of "american" cars are built 60% in Japan, and more than half of "Japanesse" cars are built 60% or more in the US. Toyota is usually 80% american in general with almost every GM car I looked at 50% american or less (all GM does in this country anymore is final assembly).
Nope, never have shopped for a new one, probably never will. Just going by what a friend that worked for Chrysler told me. Basically, it gets pretty ugly. I doubt their workers go into the details of who actually built the cars before they trash em...
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
My God Ornery Its painful reading some of what you wrote! that some true blue Americans go ape when other Americans buy imports instead of buying American.
The fact is, if American cars could successfully compete in all areas then people wouldn't have to buy imports. Some of us don't want to spend $500/month on a gas bill so we buy something with more reasonable mileage. Some of us like to have a warranty that runs for more than 2 years.
And anyway who gives a damn? America exports some of it's goods and imports others. The computer you are currently typing on was made where? What about your tv? What about your stereo, your electric razor, your microwave, or your lawn mower? You own plenty of things that were not made in the states, so who cares about your car? The reason Detroit has been screwed over as you put it is because it failed to adapt. Thats not the american people's fault, thats detroit's fault.
The fact is, if American cars could successfully compete in all areas then people wouldn't have to buy imports. Some of us don't want to spend $500/month on a gas bill so we buy something with more reasonable mileage. Some of us like to have a warranty that runs for more than 2 years.
And anyway who gives a damn? America exports some of it's goods and imports others. The computer you are currently typing on was made where? What about your tv? What about your stereo, your electric razor, your microwave, or your lawn mower? You own plenty of things that were not made in the states, so who cares about your car? The reason Detroit has been screwed over as you put it is because it failed to adapt. Thats not the american people's fault, thats detroit's fault.
<< Nope, never have shopped for a new one, probably never will >>
sucks, buying a new car with your own cash is a good feeling.
Hey Skoorb, I also said that I don't agree with those people. I say that you should buy the best quality product at the best price no matter who makes it. I'm all for totally free trade. It's best for consumers.
And for sure our consumers just dropped the go-kart market right into the Japanese' lap. No way we could shift gears fast enough to compete. It IS the consumer's fault. We could have kept on building Novas, Darts and Falcons for the budget minded. But no, we had to go to FWD instead. Detroit had nothing at all to offer. Complete retooling required and we still haven't caught up. It's a given that the RWD platform is sturdier, but don't let that stop you. American consumers are STUPID!
Good thing the local police department still has their wits about them!
Edit: There ya go, perfect example of how stupid the average American consumer is:
"...buying a new car with your own cash is a good feeling."
I'll tell ya what is a good feeling. Buying 50% more house because you don't get sucked into to buying a damn new car. You tell me where the money is better spent, real estate or automobiles? Take your time...
And for sure our consumers just dropped the go-kart market right into the Japanese' lap. No way we could shift gears fast enough to compete. It IS the consumer's fault. We could have kept on building Novas, Darts and Falcons for the budget minded. But no, we had to go to FWD instead. Detroit had nothing at all to offer. Complete retooling required and we still haven't caught up. It's a given that the RWD platform is sturdier, but don't let that stop you. American consumers are STUPID!
Good thing the local police department still has their wits about them!
Edit: There ya go, perfect example of how stupid the average American consumer is:
"...buying a new car with your own cash is a good feeling."
I'll tell ya what is a good feeling. Buying 50% more house because you don't get sucked into to buying a damn new car. You tell me where the money is better spent, real estate or automobiles? Take your time...
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
Hey Skoorb, I also said that I don't agree with those people. I say that you should buy the best quality product at the best price no matter who makes it. I'm all for totally free trade. It's best for consumers.
Ok, I appologize for not realizing that you didn't think that way
Ok, I appologize for not realizing that you didn't think that way
Yeah, about the reliability of domestic cars...I had my '87 Cutlass from 187,000 miles to 212,000 miles (over about 3 years), and the only thing I had to have fixed was the brake system. Was it the greatest car? No. Was it fast? No. Did it need a tuneup bad? Hell yeah. But did it continue to go strong through 212,000 miles? Of course; we donated it to a church, who fixed it up for someone, and last I heard, it was still going strong.
<< American consumers are STUPID >>
ugh...why? cause they buy what suits their need? dude, the cars you like are on the market...quit getting so POed just cause not everyone likes what you like. Its not like either market is folding up. just enjoy it.
<< I would think that the police would want a car that has the power and torque to chase down criminals, and they would care less about the reliablility and fuel efficiency an import provides... >>
Actually, most cops are told not to engage in fast car chases, citing the endangerment of innocent bystanders, as well as the pervasiveness of helicopter coverage (they're not getting away, "Gone in 60 Seconds" notwithstanding).
Really, what do they produce that doesn't suck? Can almost count the models on one hand:
- Pickup Trucks
- Full Size SUVs
- Town Car
- Corvette
- Viper
- F-Bodys (kinda suck)
- Mustang
<< Well damn you don't drive much do you! I pay about $200/month right now. I drive an average amount for a person (16-18k miles/year). >>
D@mn! What in the world do you drive? My car gets about 26-27mpg highway and about 15-16 in the city.
Edit: Skoorb, that's Canadian $$$ right? By the way, how much does gas run there? premium at a chevron runs about $1.50-$1.55/gal here
Eug
Lifer
- Mar 11, 2000
- 24,136
- 1,784
- 126
<< And for sure our consumers just dropped the go-kart market right into the Japanese' lap. No way we could shift gears fast enough to compete. It IS the consumer's fault. We could have kept on building Novas, Darts and Falcons for the budget minded. But no, we had to go to FWD instead. Detroit had nothing at all to offer. Complete retooling required and we still haven't caught up. It's a given that the RWD platform is sturdier, but don't let that stop you. American consumers are STUPID! >>
Well, that's a lame argument if I've ever heard one. That's essentially "We used to be okay making gas-guzzling RWD beasts, but American consumers now want better build quality, better gas mileage, front wheel drive, and smaller sized cars, so they're stupid." Last I heard it's usually considered the company's fault when it fails to recognize and deliver what its customers want. Having driven those beasts 15 years ago, I can sure as hell tell you I want nothing to do with them, because they don't suit my needs. And if US/Canadian car makers can't make a good quality product that suits me, I ain't gonna buy from them.
The only reason monster engines have survived as long as they have in the US is because gas prices are far too low by world standards. If you had to pay European prices for gas, I can tell you than V8 yachts would disappear pretty quickly.
Edit:
<< I'll tell ya what is a good feeling. Buying 50% more house because you don't get sucked into to buying a damn new car. You tell me where the money is better spent, real estate or automobiles? Take your time... >>
??? Where do you live? I am looking to buy in the $20000 US range - probably more like 25000 when all is said and done. That wouldn't even cover 10% of most full-sized detached homes around here - probably more like 5%. US$20000 would probably get you a third of a 500 sq. foot condo with no bedroom. Gas in Canada is already a heluvalot more expensive than in the US, and if you're only able to afford a condo like that, then gas mileage is very important, too. Hence a US$13000 foreign compact becomes a strong consideration, although you'd probably buy it used.
<<Major bang for the buck, solid American V8, RWD cruisers>>
Have you ever in your life driven one of those "V8 RWD cruisers" in mountainous terrain durring a snow storm? Cause I have, I drove a '74 Ford Galaxy 500 for a few years (about 6-7000lbs, RWD, V8 Engine) and they SUCK in those conditions. I live in mountainous terrain and if you have RWD you might as well park you car if you wanna try driving up a steep street in RWD during a snow storm. FWD excells in bad weather, it gives you more control and better climbing power. Sure they are a pain in the @ss to work on and they in general aren't as fun to drive but they have major safety advantages and consumers decided they wanted the benefits that FWD provides. Not everyone lives in the flat midwest ya know.
Have you ever in your life driven one of those "V8 RWD cruisers" in mountainous terrain durring a snow storm? Cause I have, I drove a '74 Ford Galaxy 500 for a few years (about 6-7000lbs, RWD, V8 Engine) and they SUCK in those conditions. I live in mountainous terrain and if you have RWD you might as well park you car if you wanna try driving up a steep street in RWD during a snow storm. FWD excells in bad weather, it gives you more control and better climbing power. Sure they are a pain in the @ss to work on and they in general aren't as fun to drive but they have major safety advantages and consumers decided they wanted the benefits that FWD provides. Not everyone lives in the flat midwest ya know.
geno
Lifer
- Dec 26, 1999
- 25,074
- 4
- 0
rahvin, depends on what kind of FWD car it is. My car is FWD and it's incredible easy to work on and maintain, mostly because the engine compartment is pretty wide open compared to most FWD cars. I agree with Neons (mostly from what I've seen) and most Hondas have cramped engine compartments, which sucks IMO.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
cablegod
Right now I'm using a '00 Imprezza. They are supposed to get about 24 mpg, but this one is getting about 18-19 mpg. That $200 was US - I'm spending $250-300/month CAN on gas. We're paying right now $.76/litre which is about $2 US per gallon. Oh and that is bottom of the line stuff. Premium is probabaly about $.82 or so , so about $2.15 US/gallon.
This thing fvcking sucks my nuts on gas. Not only is it bad on gas but with only 145 horsepower and an auto transmission is slower than all hell too. Nice in the winter, but damn do you pay for it. Its my mothers and I'm buying a more reasonable car shortly!
Right now I'm using a '00 Imprezza. They are supposed to get about 24 mpg, but this one is getting about 18-19 mpg. That $200 was US - I'm spending $250-300/month CAN on gas. We're paying right now $.76/litre which is about $2 US per gallon. Oh and that is bottom of the line stuff. Premium is probabaly about $.82 or so , so about $2.15 US/gallon.
This thing fvcking sucks my nuts on gas. Not only is it bad on gas but with only 145 horsepower and an auto transmission is slower than all hell too. Nice in the winter, but damn do you pay for it. Its my mothers and I'm buying a more reasonable car shortly!
"...American consumers now want better build quality, better gas mileage, front wheel drive, and smaller sized cars, so they're stupid."
We use to have fine build quality, but the economy aspect of light weight everything turned them into tin cans, imports included. Gas mileage is the trade off, yes, but we use to make smaller RWD too. So does BMW today and they're nothing to sneeze at.
For a family, small cars suck. No elbow room, less safe and frequently anemic. Your local cops drive what would more likely be the smarter solution for a family. If you live in the mountains, I'd still go for whatever the cops and rangers use in that area for my family too.
The average consumer around here is really stupid, especially when it comes to over spending on transportation. The average cost of a new house in this country is about $150,000. Figure about 20% down for a $120,000 mortgage @ 7% interest for a payment of $800.00 per month for 30 years. Just think, for only $400.00 more per month you could bump that up to a $180,000 mortgage. $400 is really only a car payment for one car. Many people are paying for 2 new cars. Sheesh, what a waste!
And I'm paying about $75.00 per month for gasoline on my car and it only gets 10MPG! Why don't you screwballs stay home once in a while?
We use to have fine build quality, but the economy aspect of light weight everything turned them into tin cans, imports included. Gas mileage is the trade off, yes, but we use to make smaller RWD too. So does BMW today and they're nothing to sneeze at.
For a family, small cars suck. No elbow room, less safe and frequently anemic. Your local cops drive what would more likely be the smarter solution for a family. If you live in the mountains, I'd still go for whatever the cops and rangers use in that area for my family too.
The average consumer around here is really stupid, especially when it comes to over spending on transportation. The average cost of a new house in this country is about $150,000. Figure about 20% down for a $120,000 mortgage @ 7% interest for a payment of $800.00 per month for 30 years. Just think, for only $400.00 more per month you could bump that up to a $180,000 mortgage. $400 is really only a car payment for one car. Many people are paying for 2 new cars. Sheesh, what a waste!
And I'm paying about $75.00 per month for gasoline on my car and it only gets 10MPG! Why don't you screwballs stay home once in a while?
<< Why don't you screwballs stay home once in a while? >>
there are better things to do than sit at home and whine about imports, or how not everyone likes what you do.
like 40 hour jobs, dating, you know, a life??
Hah! A 40hr job would be a vacation! Can't remember the last time I only worked 40hrs!
And by the time you pump most of your money and time into the mortgage on a house, cutting the grass, maintaining it and the cars, and working 10 hours a day plus weekends, I can't imagine running around everywhere in the car during my scarce free time.
But that's OK, you guys are keeping the economy going. Don't stop!
And by the time you pump most of your money and time into the mortgage on a house, cutting the grass, maintaining it and the cars, and working 10 hours a day plus weekends, I can't imagine running around everywhere in the car during my scarce free time.
But that's OK, you guys are keeping the economy going. Don't stop!
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