For Import Haters...

[geno]

Ok, Sorry Ornery but I'm gonna have to straighten you out before I get to bed:



<< Even the diehard GM departments would rather switch to Ford Crown Vics than the kind of FWD POS you'd like to see them driving! >>


Show me where I said I want them to have FWD and I will gladly leave this debate. I merely said this is the way it's moving, because the V8 boats are beginning to disappear from existance, my friend.



<< I'm still waiting to hear why it's preferable to have a BMW, Rolls Royce, Mercedes, Porche, Bentley, Corvette and other top end sports cars use a RWD configuration rater than FWD. What goes through your little mind when you mull that over? >>


Once MORE you're taking words out of my mouth, when did I ever say FWD was better? I'd never say a thing like that in my life because I know the tendancy for FWD to understeer. I left sports cars out of this, specifically, yet you refuse to acknowledge that. Do we have a communication problem here or is your head too thick to realize that? Of COURSE RWD is better for sports cars. Bentlys are RWD because there's no such thing as a FWD V8. Porsche, if you didn't know, use an AWD config as well as RWD (I believe) in their cars. Jeez, why would they wanna do that? They're a world class car company! So once again - stop taking words out of my mouth and we can keep this a clean and friendly debate.

 

[yakko]

<< Bentlys are RWD because there's no such thing as a FWD V8 >>


Bently's usually have a V12 and I have personally driven a Cadillac V8 FWD. Get you facts straight there boy or we're all going to call you a weenie.

 

[Ornery]

&quot;I agree, I just think that cities are going to want something a little more efficient. When something like that reaches a bigger size (the closest thing I can think of is an Intrepid or a bigger Chrysler) I think they might move away from the big ass Crown Vickies IMO. It won't be for a long time tho.&quot;

Obviously, as soon as the FWD POS gets bigger, the fuel efficiency drops to the same level as the current cruiser. I put facts in there to prove that point, Zucchini, but as you can see, that obviously went right over his head.

And you guys are the ones getting all goofy and giggly because cops are running out of choices for their first platform of choice. Since it's a given that it is the superior platform, that it is what cops want and that when FWD cars get close to that size, their fuel use is equal, why would you want our cops in anything else?

 

[BCYL]

Sorry Ornery, but I dont understand why you keep using what the cops use to prove your point... Cops have totally different requirements and values than the average &quot;Joe&quot;, so it really doesn't make sense to me saying what is better by looking at what the cops use...

However I DO agree that RWD is better than FWD in many ways... but FWD have their advantages too...

Besides, different ppl want different things in their cars. Some may want big cars with power, in that case, they go with domestic V8's... however many people nowadays want small, safe cars that just get them around the city while saving fuel. In that case, they go with a small FWD domestic/import, since most wouldnt know how to handle a RWD spin, and dont need the advantages that RWD provide...

So I guess it's all personal preference, as many have stated earlier in this thread... ppl have different requirements. Not everyone wants a car that accelerates fast or corners good. It just so happens that import car makers are targetting those individuals as their potential customers...

 

[Soybomb]

Okay I've stayed out of this as long as I can

Is FWD better than RWD? Sometimes, sometimes not. Police most likely choose RWD since there are less traction problems under hard acceration. The average joe lunchpail is better with fwd because it offers better traction in rain, snow, and other inclimate conditions that most people don't know how to drive well in. If you tell me that an unskilled driver (what most people are) can handle both the same way you've not lived around snow long enough In snow is my jeep in 4wd or my fwd car, the jeep in rwd just sucks hard.

As far as body on frame vs. unibody: Once again for copy two piece may be fine, but most people are better with unibody. Unibody cars usually are better for the occupants during crashes since the whole car will crumple as opposed to the rigid frame that passes teh wreck forces onto the occupants. On the other hand when you're a cop diving through the highway median at 50mph that extra rigidity is whats keeping you're car from bending in the middle.

Just because a car is RWD by no means that its componets are more durable than a fwd's. Yes indeed the rear axle/tranny out of a pickup truck or police cruiser is going to be stronger than the transaxle from a neon. Duh.

Oh and genocide: the taurus is fwd

 

[pdiddy]

it's all about datsuns

 

[Viperoni]

For the general public, FWD is a better driveline setup.
I mean, all you do is mash the gas in the winter and wait for the car to move....
In a RWD car the back end will fishtail to the right (natural function of the driveline), just like on regular ashphalt; the right rear will always break loose first in a regular differential.
Lockup diff's and traction control are different.



<< because the V8 boats are beginning to disappear from existance, my friend. >>



Are they?
Mercury is coming out with the Maurader, over 300hp V8 engine, Lincoln LS (mmmmmm ), Lincoln almost everything else, the small Caddy (can't remember name ), almost every single BMW (3, 5, 7 series, M3 and M5), a few (or many?) Mercedes Benz's, and others to name just a few

 

[Phunktion]

This argument is a never ending one. I for one don't give a rat's ass about other people's cars. It's all about whether you like your car and I love mine. Both domestics and imports have their ups and downs. When you buy a car you shouldn't buy it because of what brand name it is, you should buy the car that fits you, the one with the looks that you like. I have to admit I hate people who drive cars with flashy Neuspeed markings but nothing under the hood to back it up, these types of people obviously need to grow a dick but this is my opinion and it matters only to me. I personally drive a Saab 900 and this car matches me perfectly.. some people'll say it's ugly and others are total fanatics about them. The point I'm trying to get across here is that there is no better type of car. Example a person who wants a cheap commuter car would be happy with a Geo Metro (mmm I'm stretching it a little here ) for the gas mileage and could never like a Oldsmobile Cutlass because it's a gas guzzler and it's always hard to find a parking place. Regardless of whether people bash you for it all that matters is whether you like your car not whether it's American or Import!
I personally like both very equally.. I like Hondas for their reliability, BMW's for their sporty style, Saabs for their quirkiness, Dodge for their Viper, and Chevy for their small block V-8.
Suffice it to say &quot;Can't we all just get along!?&quot;

 

[skywhr]

I have an american car a FORD and yes I know they are suck but it went 175000 miles before it died

 

[bigbootydaddy]

<< I will consider a Japanese car an option when I can comfortably fit in the drivers seat of one >>



hehe i picture a big gimp...

 

[geno]

Yakko, 9 out of 10 Bentlys are V8s my man. And a FWD V8? Never heard of one, what kind of Caddy was this?

 

[Ornery]

BCYL, it's not my fault that it took 20 posts to drive home the point that the all American V8, RWD, body on frame is, and should be, the choice for police cruisers. Now since that point is finally conceded, I'd like to continue with my original thought. That there isn't an import to fill that bill, at even close to the same cost. Simple, eh?

And now it's rant time. I am so pissed at the average American consumer since the early 70's. Up till then, we had cornered the market on that type of platform. The V8, RWD, body on frame. That was Detroit's bread and butter. There wasn't an import that could compete with it model for model in the same price range. Then we got hit with the oil embargoes. Time for fuel efficiency. Well, I didn't get sucked into it. I decided it was worth the extra cost for gasoline to keep a nice comfortable, powerful full size boat. My choice.

However, the average American consumer jumped on the go-kart band wagon and Detroit hasn't been the same since. The American consumer has forced Detroit to retool and start competing with imports on their turf. I'm surprised they've met the challenge as well as they have. But now we're left with few classic American V8 RWD models, thank you :|

You say that's not what our consumers want. Yeah right. Why is the top selling vehicle in this country the half ton pickup? Why are monster SUVs so popular? Why did we give up the platform that put us on top, that the imports couldn't touch? We friggen screwed ourselves! You ding-a-lings just handed the market to Japan by demanding the type of cars that they were already building. And for what? To save a few bucks per year on gasoline?

All I can say now is I'm glad there is the huge market for big SUVs and pickups. It keeps Detroit tooled up a little bit to build something other than matchbox cars :|

 

[vi edit]

<< I will consider a Japanese car an option when I can comfortably fit in the drivers seat of one >>

hehe i picture a big gimp...

And I picture a buffoon with an IQ shorter than his height.

 

[Cable God]

<< Plasticy (inside and out) pieces of garbage... >>



what about your plasticy pieces of imported dog sh!t?


hey, you started the flaming with that statement....

 

[vi edit]

Viperoni, add Lexus to the RWD list as well

 

[markymark618]

The caddy STS is a V8 FWD.

 

[Eug]

For the average person, FWD is MUCH better if you live anywhere where it actually gets cold in the winter. Most people don't turn corners at ultra-fast speed, and most people don't race. I like BMWs, but they suck on ice. As for safety, it depends on the car. There are many imports that have excellent crash test ratings, and there are many domestics that have mediocre crash test ratings.

It was interesting to drive to work during the last snowstorm. The big@ss domestics with RWD were fishtailing all over the place, and several ended up on the sidewalk. The FWD cars just spun their tires and slowly moved up the hill. Of course, the 4WD people just laughed at all of us as they passed us.

 

[Ornery]

To me, that still begs the question, why would your local patrolmen not be better off with the FWD then? What exactly are their needs that the average family doesn't have? I'm saying the average family would be better served with the good old fashioned American land yacht, same as the cops!

 

[Rent]

Man, you guys won't just give it up.

First of all, do you guys know why Cops use Impalas, Crown Vics, and Caprices? They are boats that are heavy and can hold passengers. I know, I've been a passenger in one of them :| - as far as FWD vs RWD vs AWD, FWD is the most sensible for city driving. Racing enthusists will debate, but for the average joe, FWD is simply easier to move your ass from point A to point B. Point the car in the direction and watch everything else follow. Now, that doesn't mean its better...

I'd like to know how many of you have actually driven all types of cars - manual, auto, fwd, awd, rwd... I mean comon. I've driven Toyota MR2s(RWD), Suburu Imprezas(AWD), Trans Ams(RWD), Mustangs(RWD)... its personal preference. Ug... time for a break

 

[bigbootydaddy]

<< And I picture a buffoon with an IQ shorter than his height. >>



hehe, sorry the air went up your skirt...gimpy.

 

[Ornery]

Radeon, that still doesn't answer the question. Families need boats that are heavy and can hold passengers too. I think either the cops are driving the wrong configuration or the families are. One of the two is not getting their money's worth...

 

[geno]

Cablegod, you can't tell me that the new Impalas and Malibus aren't cheap. I've driven a few of them and they're insanely cheap for the money you pay.



<< Why are monster SUVs so popular? >>


Exactly, they're replacing the traditional boat of a car that you like. It's a fad, people will get over it in time - once people do, the big RWD V8s aren't gonna be around.



<< what about your plasticy pieces of imported dog sh!t? >>


And why the hell is it &quot;your&quot;?? Have I ever even said &quot;I like Imports/Domestics better&quot;, christ man if you guys keep pulling things out of thing air it's gonna be too easy to clown you.

 

[Eug]

Ornery, Well, my sis' has a minivan for the kids and a Lexus for herself. The Impala wouldn't be as useful for the kids, and for herself I'm sure she wouldn't want to be caught dead in an Impala. And I'm sure a minivan isn't as useful as an Impala for a cop.

Radeon, I've driven RWD, AWD, FWD. I like both RWD and FWD, but I'm not an aggressive driver and don't want a sports car so FWD seems much more sensible between the two - I live in Toronto - lots of snow. I can't really compare AWD since the ones I've driven have always been SUVs so it's gonna be different regardless. All I can say is handling on the few SUVs I've driven (usually Jeep Grand Cherokee, etc.) suck majorly compared to nice RWD and FWD sedans. Drives like a land boat, but with that added weird AWD feel.

 

[yakko]

genocide,

Not sure what kind of Caddy it was but I will say I was suprised it was FWD.


Radeon,

I have driven all types. FWD - My Jetta GL. I do corner fast and it handles fine. Also many other VDubs since I was a VW mechanic and had to test drive them. I also got to &quot;test drive&quot; a race prepped Rabbit just to make sure the clutch I put in was working ok. RWD - Porsche 928, Porsche 911, VW Bug, Vanagon, Combie, 93 RX7, Miata and a few others. AWD - Audi 4000S Quattro. I even got to drive it in the mud. Handled great. A Vanagon Synchro and a 92 Audi Quattro. Not sure of the model name as it wasn't designated but it had a V8 in it. It was a early version of what is now the R8.

Ornery,


<< . Families need boats that are heavy and can hold passengers too >>


Why does it have to be a heavy boat? Why not a well designed lightweight with space inside?

 

[geno]

Yakko, I just looked up some Caddies...FWD - that sure as hell shocked me!