I havent read through this entire thread. But wasnt the guy who authorized this a political appointee when it used be an assigned position from the pentagon under previous administrations?
SarcasticDwarf
Diamond Member
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Err, it was being escorted, not chased.
Maybe they assumed that people were not going to be COMPLETE MORONS?
SarcasticDwarf
Diamond Member
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It DOES happen every day. It seems that many people in NYC are incapable of reacting in anything approaching a rational matter. It is no better than people who react as if every unattended package of any kind is a bomb waiting to go off. Yes, it COULD be one, but the odds of it being one are tiny (at least in the US). Their response was NOT reasonable.
Interesting, I dont remember us being in a recession and staring down the face of depression at that point.
With China cutting off our credit card,, I cant believe we stand for this kind of waste.
Its a different time. Buh buh buh Bush does not excuse current waste.
SarcasticDwarf
Diamond Member
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Uh, that is how Air Force One usually flies. It is always escorted by fighters. It does not normally fly that low and slow when not in a landing pattern, but that in itself is not cause for alarm. Heck, A F-16 was circling a few hundred feet over the city I am in. Did everyone freak out? Hell no. Again, the response by some to the plane was unreasonable.
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
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Let's recap:
spacejams: low flying 747s escorted by fighter jets doesn't happen every day in nyc
dwarf: yes it does
jonks: really?
dwarf: yes really. well, not that low. or through nyc. but really, why would a low flying 747 being followed by a fighter jet weird out anyone in nyc?
you're not living up to your handle are you?
SarcasticDwarf
Diamond Member
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I did not say it happens every day in NYC, but it does happen near every day someplace in the US.
Just because it does not normally happen, it does not mean that the public should respond with panic. Reacting with panic and evacuations was not a reasonable response.
yeah, jesus... why on earth would anyone in downtown manhattan react with panic over an extremely low-flying jet aimed at their city? :roll:
http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.s...oldman%20Sachs%20Tower
Other videos in the list that shows up at the end of this video reveal that military aircraft fly-overs are quite common. I wonder how much all this costs.
Other videos in the list that shows up at the end of this video reveal that military aircraft fly-overs are quite common. I wonder how much all this costs.
SarcasticDwarf
Diamond Member
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Ok, now THAT is funny. Everyone standing at the SHROELINE starts running TOWARDS the tall buildings.
ericlp
Diamond Member
- Dec 24, 2000
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Originally posted by: blackangst1
This is amazing IMHO. After what NYC has been through, Air Force One decides to take a photo op of the Statue of Liberty and fly along the skyline? WTF were they thinking?Can you imagine being there and seeing a 747 flying your way? Holy shit.
One of many sources
OBAMA PLANE PHOTO OP STARTLES NEW YORKERS
A jumbo jet being chased by a F-16 fighter jets buzzed Lower Manhattan this morning, panicking New Yorkers, many of whom were forced to evacuate their office buildings.
It was not a terrorist attack, however, but a photo opportunity for Air Force One, sources told the Post.
President Obama was in Washington at the time, but the low-flying 747 circling the Statue of Liberty was one of the planes used as Air Force One, sources said.
The NYPD and the city were notified of the planned flight, but did not share that information with Mayor Bloomberg and other New Yorkers, many of whom said they were terrified.
(click link for full story)
The White House apologizes
WHITE HOUSE APOLOGIZES FOR AIR FORCE ONE PHOTO-OP
A White House official is taking responsibility for a Boeing 747's flying photo op over New York City that sent some workers in lower Manhattan into a panic. The plane is a version of the 747 that's called Air Force One when the president is aboard.
White House military office director Louis Caldera says federal officials notified local and state authorities in New York and New Jersey, but he also apologized in a statement on Monday for the confusion and disruption.
Caldera's office provides military support for White House functions, including food service, presidential transportation and medical services. The office oversees all military operations aboard Air Force One on presidential trips.
Crazy shit, and a bad stunt IMHO.
These people need to get over it already. I think they should fly 3 to 4 planes real low daily. It's been what 8 years almost? Shit.... More people died California earth quakes and no one gives a shit when they have a little tremble.
I'm tired of the POOR 9/11 freaks and the 9/11 day and I'm real tired of the stupid results and rights that were taken away because of it. Bush handled the whole thing poorly and too bad we had an idiot at the helm when it happened.
Yeah, 9/11 it's a bad day. Great, now get over it. Who cares!
ericlp
Diamond Member
- Dec 24, 2000
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Hahaha what a bunch of tards!
Oh my god, even screaming... Shit... classic. Well, hell yeah!!! of course they are gonna run towards the buildings. Chances are they will get some dust in their lungs and CRY CRY CRY and maybe the government will give them 5K-20K each for pain and suffering ... I'd be running towards the buildings too and if by chance you did get a cut or a broken bone hell your probably won't have to work for the rest of your life!!!! Sounds like a pretty good deal to me!
and what personal experience do you have with something like this, living in Hawaii, to tell people working a couple blocks away from the WTC that they should just shrug their shoulders when they see an abnormally low flying plane with a fighter jet on its tail flying at them?
SarcasticDwarf
Diamond Member
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Nope. Once again, panic was not a reasonable reaction in that situation.
* The plane was clearly a presidential plane. The odds of THAT being hijacked are low.
* The fighters were escorting, not attacking the plane
* A pair of fighters around the presidential plane is standard procedure.
* The plane was CIRCLING. Yeah, a plane is going to circle a city for fifteen minutes with fighters on its ass and THEN ram a building.
* If a hostile aircraft was over water and there were fighters there, they would have shot it down over the water
* Running from the damn shoreline TOWARDS BUILDINGS would be a retarded thing to do if the plane was going to ram, gee, a building
* For the most part one spot is not any more dangerous than another (those at the tops of buildings would face greater danger in a real attack, but that is it)
* Finally, a low flying plane is not a sign that it is going to crash into YOU. The people that reacted with complete panic are the same people that would react with complete panic in any kind of real dangerous situation. It is people like that who get others killed.
SarcasticDwarf
Diamond Member
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Everyone has their own traumatic experiences to deal with. Why should people affected by 9/11 be treated any different?
How is this any different than people scarred by combat experience? Yeah, for a while many of the people who have been in combat will react strongly to loud noises (especially firecrackers). After a while they either get used to it or they get serious medical help. After eight years I think it is time that people who were impacted by 9/11 start getting used to seeing planes.
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
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You can tell Air Force One from a standard 747 at a glance from the ground? I assure you, you are in the minority with that ability.
Again, at a glance, seeing a low flying 747 in NYC a person on the ground should err on the side of concluding the fighter is escorting it and not waiting for it to be clear of ground debrit should it shoot it down?
Who stands around looking at a low flying 747 to figure out if the plane was circling for a photo op or lining itself up with a building? I'm not going to wait to figure out the pilots intentions at a few hundred feet.
The "water" around NYC is narrow rivers and any plane fired upon would almost certainly hit land anyway.
People weren't running "towards buildings", they were running away from where they stood b/c the plane was headed in their direction. What if it crashed into the ground? They were getting the fuck out of there. "One spot is no more dangerous than another." Easy to be calm from behind your desk without a plane flying at you. Yes, you're a coldblooded hero and anyone who showed fear was a mouse. Another keyboard warrior.
the airspace in the NY metro area is the busiest in the world.
I don't think anyone is asking for special treatment, I think we're saying that it's retarded common sense that if you're going to be flying a plane abnormally low, you should make a public announcement or, at the very least, don't do it in the middle of the business day. would it have been so trying to do it on a Sunday morning or something when downtown is a ghost town?
if you read my post from a few days ago, the FAA itself predicted "public concern" and demanded silence from all involved.
http://gawker.com/5231749/feds...still-kept-it-a-secret
I had a teacher in high school who served in Vietnam and was well-known to suffer from PTS... you can bet your ass I wouldn't go around sneaking up on him to try and scare him.
SarcasticDwarf
Diamond Member
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From the front? No. From the sides, absolutely.
Why is panic any better? Again, there are reasonable reactions at different points in time. If the plane were attacking the city why would they wait for it to fly over the city, circle around, THEN shoot it down? Please.
A reasonable thought process would be:
1) Is it likely that a plane flying low to the ground is a threat?
2) If so, is it a threat to me?
3) If it is a threat to me, what is the best way to minimize the impact it has on me?
People misinterpreting it as a threat at the very beginning of the operation made a reasonable judgement call. Those that panicked after it had been circling for several minutes did not. The true stupidity came in HOW people reacted. Running in a random direction to a point that is no safer than where you were to begin with is NOT a reasonable reaction.
Yep, but if they were to shoot it down that is where they would do it.
See above. If the plane was going to intentionally crash (as they were assuming) then the shoreline would be one of the safer places to be.
Yes, I am a cold blooded bastard, but that does not change things. What, you think that the only people with a legitimate perspective are those who were in the towers? Please.
SarcasticDwarf
Diamond Member
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Yep. But does everyone who served in Vietnam act like that? What I am saying is that some small percentage is likely to be permanently emotionally scarred by the event, but that we should not act as if the ENTIRE population is.
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