Florida pedestrian bridge collapses onto roadway, cars. Was up for 5 days

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lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
59,143
9,584
126
Looks like the bridge was based on FIUs own Accelerated Bridge Construction Transportation Center work.



Oddly enough the renderings they show for the bridge show suspension elements that were not in place when it collapsed:

https://news.fiu.edu/wp-content/uploads/17703_EXT_FIU_Bridge_Move_Fact_Sheet_030918_DIGITAL.pdf

More information:
https://news.fiu.edu/2018/03/first-of-its-kind-pedestrian-bridge-swings-into-place/120385
I'm not a structural engineer, but I've put in quite a few bridges, and 174' is a long single span. It looks like the ties to the pier column were essential to the integrity of the bridge. As humpy said, I would imagine they needed supports below it. I'd be interested in seeing exactly how it was setup.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,672
136
This failure will have been caused by an error chain. A series of semi related events that if a single one was interrupted would have prevented the failure.

An example of this was he Hyatt Regency Skywalk Collapse in 1981. The hotel added a suspended skywalk on the 4th and 2nd floors that were directly above each other. During a party with many people on each skywalk the structure failed and the top skywalk collapsed onto the lower skywalk and then into the floor killing 114 people.

The investigation found the following:
  • The design called for steel rods to be threaded from the ceiling down through each skywalk where a nut and washer would support each load
  • The design was later shown to only provide about 60% of the capability building codes required.
  • This design was too challenging for the contractor to build so they modified it. The modification resulted in the upper washer and nut supporting the weight of both skywalks.
  • The design and construction also put most of the weight on a weld.
  • These changes reduced the load capacity of the skywalk to just bit more than it’s own weight.
  • The contractor did not relay this change to the engineering firm. Nor did the engineering firm check on the construction.
800px-HRWalkway.svg.png

If any of those links had been broken there would have been no collapse.
  • If the engineer had a design that was able to be built it wouldn’t have failed
  • If the design was up to code it likely would have had enough margin to survive even with the construction modification
  • If the contractor had been able to build it as designed it wouldn’t have failed
  • If the contractor had discussed the changes with the engineering firm the flaw would have been caught.
This bridge collapse will almost certainly follow the same pattern as do all engineering and construction failures.

In hindsight the links are easy to see. At the time they happen not so much.


I remember that well, nice write up.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
14,667
9,559
136
This failure will have been caused by an error chain. A series of semi related events that if a single one was interrupted would have prevented the failure.

An example of this was he Hyatt Regency Skywalk Collapse in 1981. The hotel added a suspended skywalk on the 4th and 2nd floors that were directly above each other. During a party with many people on each skywalk the structure failed and the top skywalk collapsed onto the lower skywalk and then into the floor killing 114 people.

The investigation found the following:
  • The design called for steel rods to be threaded from the ceiling down through each skywalk where a nut and washer would support each load
  • The design was later shown to only provide about 60% of the capability building codes required.
  • This design was too challenging for the contractor to build so they modified it. The modification resulted in the upper washer and nut supporting the weight of both skywalks.
  • The design and construction also put most of the weight on a weld.
  • These changes reduced the load capacity of the skywalk to just bit more than it’s own weight.
  • The contractor did not relay this change to the engineering firm. Nor did the engineering firm check on the construction.
800px-HRWalkway.svg.png

If any of those links had been broken there would have been no collapse.
  • If the engineer had a design that was able to be built it wouldn’t have failed
  • If the design was up to code it likely would have had enough margin to survive even with the construction modification
  • If the contractor had been able to build it as designed it wouldn’t have failed
  • If the contractor had discussed the changes with the engineering firm the flaw would have been caught.
This bridge collapse will almost certainly follow the same pattern as do all engineering and construction failures.

In hindsight the links are easy to see. At the time they happen not so much.


So often it seems to go that way - multiple failures, but most of all, someone deciding at some point to do it a different way to how it had originally been designed (and not bothering to test, or even particularly think about, the new method or to tell anyone they'd made changes).
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
14,667
9,559
136
This is why the forum should be renamed "Politics or News".

Otherwise, dummy's will forever insist on including Trump or Obama in every thread no matter how irrelevant.

Analogous to how dummies will forever insist on including apostrophes in words, whether they belong there or not, eh?
(Goddam, I came _that_ close to typing "apostrophe's")
 
Dec 10, 2005
27,553
11,915
136
I see some criticizing the style of the bridge building, but I don't see the problem inherent in assembling most of the span on the side, then lowering it into place. Besides the cost, it could save tons of time in the avoidance of long-term traffic re-routing. The Long Island Railroad recently replaced a bridge on the main line using a similar technique: assemble the span in a nearby parking lot, then remove the old one and lower the new one into place in a single weekend.

Seems like someone just fucked up big time in the construction process.
 

Humpy

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2011
4,464
596
126
Analogous to how dummies will forever insist on including apostrophes in words, whether they belong there or not, eh?
(Goddam, I came _that_ close to typing "apostrophe's")

If this were the "Politics and/or Grammar" forum I'd agree completely. As it is I don't disagree with the implication that I'm some kind of idiot.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
16,768
15,779
146
I see some criticizing the style of the bridge building, but I don't see the problem inherent in assembling most of the span on the side, then lowering it into place. Besides the cost, it could save tons of time in the avoidance of long-term traffic re-routing. The Long Island Railroad recently replaced a bridge on the main line using a similar technique: assemble the span in a nearby parking lot, then remove the old one and lower the new one into place in a single weekend.

Seems like someone just fucked up big time in the construction process.
I could be wrong, but I don't think most (here at least) are criticizing the modular construction, more that it looks like parts just weren't included, specifically the primary support rigging infrastructure. I can imagine it wasn't included because of a) cost, or b) what looks like a turn lane underneath the bridge, as seen here:
IMG_4393-768x438.jpg
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,553
3,714
126
People complain why stuff takes so long to build in this country compared to say, China, well the span was constructed in less than a day.

It was assembled in a day but construction of the parts took longer. Modular construction can work well if its done right

I'm not a structural engineer, but I've put in quite a few bridges, and 174' is a long single span. It looks like the ties to the pier column were essential to the integrity of the bridge. As humpy said, I would imagine they needed supports below it. I'd be interested in seeing exactly how it was setup.

Yeah im interested to see more information on it. Also seemed pretty heavy for the span but maybe that was supposed to add stability to withstand hurricanes.

Thats another thing. Its was supposed to withstand a Cat 5 hurricane but couldnt even hold itself up. Something really went wrong
 
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soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,041
136
Certain people like to play the silliest versions of connect the dots in order to troll about Trump. I guess we could say that the Clintons and Obama have a responsibility as well since Manafort and the Podestas are linked through the same pro-Russian Ukrainians and the Podestas are linked to Clinton and Obama. This is fun.
You should love it, it’s what hannity does when he connects Hillary to Russians and then you spew it here.
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,187
4,871
136
Yeah im interested to see more information on it. Also seemed pretty heavy for the span but maybe that was supposed to add stability to withstand hurricanes.

Thats another thing. Its was supposed to withstand a Cat 5 hurricane but couldnt even hold itself up. Something really went wrong
Here in FL DOT uses a lot of preformed spans, however, they all have support ribbing along the bottom which this structure is completely devoid of.
 

Hans Gruber

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 2006
2,496
1,341
136
The bridge when finished was supposed to have a Suspension bridge (load bearing) like rigging at one end grounded by cables connected near the center of the span. I am not an engineer but when you install a load bearing mast with cables that ground the load to the earth. Once in place the load of the bridge is anchored into the ground. The earlier post with the hinging system with swing and lock mechanism makes me wonder if like a door hinge that supports load. If placed upside down gravity is not your friend which would explain the collapse of the bridge lacking load bearing support if assembled incorrectly.

In layman's terms had they left at least a couple of the load bearing hydraulic jacks in place. The bridge would still be standing and they would be without a lane in each direction until they did load bearing tests or assembled the suspension bridge cables. I would guess having just one hydraulic jack under the center of the bridge would have been enough to keep the bridge up until the weight bearing pieces could be added at a later date.
 

Hans Gruber

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 2006
2,496
1,341
136
Now that I think about it. The concrete supports on each end were still standing. The failure came from the bridge buckling. One forum member pointed out that it was a very long bridge.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,254
136
Looks like the bridge was based on FIUs own Accelerated Bridge Construction Transportation Center work.

Oddly enough the renderings they show for the bridge show suspension elements that were not in place when it collapsed:

https://news.fiu.edu/wp-content/uploads/17703_EXT_FIU_Bridge_Move_Fact_Sheet_030918_DIGITAL.pdf

More information:
https://news.fiu.edu/2018/03/first-of-its-kind-pedestrian-bridge-swings-into-place/120385

I'm guessing the bridge was designed to handle its own dead load without the cable stays, and the cable stays were there to handle the live load (which can be very high on a pedestrian bridge) and for looks. The span is designed as a massive truss where both the top and bottom cords are design to carry load. I'll be interested to see the cause, but I seriously doubt it was "oops I forgot to hook up the cables."

Accelerated Bridge Construction is the future, and will be happening more and more, and has been happening for over a decade. In this case there was either a problem with the design, construction plan, or actual construction, but that doesn't mean that there is an inherent safety issue with ABC.

You also can not load cable stays unbalanced. The towers require even load on either side, because they aren't designed to carry massive moments loads. You can also see the rebar sticking up that the cable tower would've been built from, so it is obvious it was planned to be built at a later date.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,254
136
I see some criticizing the style of the bridge building, but I don't see the problem inherent in assembling most of the span on the side, then lowering it into place. Besides the cost, it could save tons of time in the avoidance of long-term traffic re-routing. The Long Island Railroad recently replaced a bridge on the main line using a similar technique: assemble the span in a nearby parking lot, then remove the old one and lower the new one into place in a single weekend.

Seems like someone just fucked up big time in the construction process.
Generally ABC is actually much more expensive in real dollars. It is "cheaper" because it causes much less disruption to the roadway. States calculate a cost associated with added traffic delays, and damage done to detour routes, it is "soft costs" that generally make ABC a viable construction method. There are definitely much cheaper ways to build a two span, 300 foot pedestrian bridge than what they were doing there, but those would've likely resulted in the road being closed and or at least taken down to half its normal lanes for extended periods of time.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,254
136
"It seems unwise that such a test would be conducted during rush hour."

http://www.smobserved.com/story/201...-test-conducted-at-time-of-collapse/3368.html
That doesn't make sense, you don't test bridges by dropping things on them from a crane, and you sure as hell don't do that with an open roadway underneath. Impact loads can be massive and are very heard to calculate, the only thing you test with impact load are impact failure cases, which isn't done on real world bridges. Seems much more likely that a piece of equipment was dropped onto the bridge on accident, which may have coincided with them doing some other type of test or inspection on the bridge.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,553
3,714
126
I'm guessing the bridge was designed to handle its own dead load without the cable stays, and the cable stays were there to handle the live load (which can be very high on a pedestrian bridge) and for looks. The span is designed as a massive truss where both the top and bottom cords are design to carry load. I'll be interested to see the cause, but I seriously doubt it was "oops I forgot to hook up the cables."

My confusion stems more from news articles implying it was done (or leaving out that it was still under construction) but it not looking like the renderings. It was more along the lines of 'did they massively rework the design?' or 'was it not really finished?' which is why there was no implication in my post that they forgot anything.

but that doesn't mean that there is an inherent safety issue with ABC.

Never said there was?
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
The Romans could build bridges like nobodies business. It took 2000 years from Trump to come along and unlearn how to build one of the simplest structures man has ever devised.


America is devolving. We are now in pre-roman times in terms of our infrastructure. Thanks Trump!
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,553
3,714
126

Humpy

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2011
4,464
596
126
That doesn't make sense, you don't test bridges by dropping things on them from a crane, and you sure as hell don't do that with an open roadway underneath. Impact loads can be massive and are very heard to calculate, the only thing you test with impact load are impact failure cases, which isn't done on real world bridges. Seems much more likely that a piece of equipment was dropped onto the bridge on accident, which may have coincided with them doing some other type of test or inspection on the bridge.

It doesn't make sense. It's possible they were post tensioning some cables or checking the prestress cables and it was confused as some type of stress test.

There was a crane there at the time of collapse near the most damaged end.
 

Humpy

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2011
4,464
596
126
The Romans could build bridges like nobodies business. It took 2000 years from Trump to come along and unlearn how to build one of the simplest structures man has ever devised.


America is devolving. We are now in pre-roman times in terms of our infrastructure. Thanks Trump!

LOL Shut up.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,254
136
My confusion stems more from news articles implying it was done (or leaving out that it was still under construction) but it not looking like the renderings. It was more along the lines of 'did they massively rework the design?' or 'was it not really finished?' which is why there was no implication in my post that they forgot anything.

Based on the pictures it wasn't done. They had just set one of the spans. Media knows nothing about bridges. You can also see that the handrails were construction fences, and the lack of cables, towers and second span.

Never said there was?
Other people are implying that corners were being cut to save money with ABC. That wasn't directed at you.