Florida Man Is Shot to Death for Texting During Movie Previews

[Vic]

He's a retired, respected, police Captain, allowed to conceal carry under federal law anywhere, anytime. He will be difficult to put in jail, I think. His defense probably will actually center around the bag of popcorn being thrown. Reaching for something, throwing motion, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Enforcement_Officers_Safety_Act

I haven't seen anyone argue that Reeves was carrying illegally. Maybe on other sites?

Reeves has already stated, after his rights were read, that Oulson threw an "unknown object" at him. The judge at the arraignment earlier today ruled that an unknown object does not constitute a deadly threat (which would be expected).
Multiple witnesses say there was no physical contact between the two men. One of the witnesses was an off-duty sheriffs deputy who apparently saw the entire incident from 5 seats over (and made the arrest).
The Pasco county sheriff's office and the Florida states attorney have already determined that stand your ground does not apply here.
The theater has confirmed that Reeves never spoke to the manager because he refused to wait while the manager helped another customer.

This is open and shut. Reeves screwed up. I predict plea bargain.

 

[Vic]

He had just thrown something at him and his wife had put a hand on him to hold him back. Gee, if his own wife is worried he is about to get violent how much more evidence do you need?

And what threat to Reeves did Nicole Oulson present that her shooting was justified?

 

[master_shake_]

Florida is like the north america taking a shit, it just won't fall off.

seriously WTF...

 

[Geosurface]

I've only read into page 2 so far so I'm sure this has been pointed out by others by now...

but I just HAVE to say:

there is nothing whatsoever wrong with texting during the friggin' previews! They haven't even fully turned down the lights yet, people are still taking their seats, and the actual movie you paid to see is nowhere near starting these days when previews take about half an hour.

The whole point of "don't text during a movie" is that in the dark theater, your phone screen is very bright and can distract people visually from looking at the screen. I realize some people enjoy the previews, and that's fine, but again the lights are not yet fully down during them (usually) and even if they are, being distracted from previews is not any big deal to any sane person...

When someone's texting during the actual movie, and particularly if they keep at it, that's when politely saying something to them makes sense.

It is a horrible tragedy that this father in the prime of his life was killed while he had a family - particularly a 3 year old daughter who will probably not even remember him later in life. I don't know that I remember anything from when I was 3...

It is a sick example of how sometimes people in our society don't have the ability to defuse situations and control their anger and be civil in public. We've all seen people like this. Usually, they get into it with someone who is more sensible than them and who finds a way to defuse it. Occasionally, two hot heads will collide and neither will deescalate or defuse, and it reaches a boiling point and someone gets punched or, worst of all, someone gets stabbed or shot and dies. Sometimes people even unexpectedly die from a single punch, though it's rare.

Certainly, the gun made a death come out of a situation which almost certainly would not have resulted in one otherwise. Had the gun not been there, they could have been pried apart or cops called or theater management intervened or whatever, if they'd gotten into a wrestling match or something.

But I don't see the implications that a lot of the anti-gun people see in that fact... it's also true that if you had a horse and buggy accident in 1875 you were more likely to survive it than a modern car accident, because the speeds involved were so much less. Technology marches along, and it has it's good sides and it's bad sides. Sometimes the tradeoff we make for convenience and speed is that when those technologies malfunction or are misused, the results are nastier than before they existed. Then again, I'd rather be shot to death than killed with a claymore sword or something.

As others have said, this guy was a retired cop and would have been able to carry in what, all 50 states? Not clear on that, but it's silly to harp on Florida, gun laws, yadda yadda yadda.

This is a true tragedy, nobody should lose their life simply because they let their temper get the better of them or let someone else get a rise out of them.

I think all indications are these two were both douche bags to some degree. The guy getting upset at texting during the previews and harping on the guy even when he explained (seemingly) that it was going to be brief, and even going to management about it... that's a douche move. The other guy, if he threw popcorn or did anything which even came close to getting physical with an elderly man, rather than just moved seats with his wife to somewhere behind the guy, or whatever, or even just his decision to keep the argument going with the "oh so you went to the management?" etc, are all douche moves too. Though, from what I know so far, the dead man seems like less of a douche. I'd have to know exactly what he did right before the gunshot.

It's a tragedy regardless.

But adults are supposed to know that it's a big world, with tons of people, and if you have international media looking for these odd, rare situations to latch onto and sensationalize, they can have you believing that ANYTHING is an epidemic. They aggregate stories with blood and guts and they pull them from the entire country or even the entire world. In a world of 7 billion, there will always be a stream of nasty stories, and our interconnected world is getting better and better at not missing any of them.

Adults are supposed to know that shit happens, and not cry for knee-jerk, freedom-killing legislation in reaction to that.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Irrelevant. No allows you to use deadly force because you fear being attacked.

You sure about that? Final answer?

 

[Vic]

You sure about that? Final answer?

You're required to know the nature of the threat before resorting to the use of deadly force in self defense. The threat cannot be vague or unknown.
Also, you cannot claim self defense in an altercation which you initiated. For example, if you pick a fight with a guy, and later find yourself getting your ass kicked, you can't shoot him and claim self defense (because that's manslaughter).

 

[Geosurface]

I have to wonder if the popcorn flying might've been AS the gunshot went off, as in, he gets shot and the popcorn goes flying because of his jerking movement in reaction to the shot. Bystanders who didn't know a gun was about to be fired, might see both things happening simultaneously and have a hard time distinguishing whether the popcorn flew before, during or after the gunshot.

Then again, why would you pick up your popcorn in order to stand there arguing with someone? Unless he'd always had it in his hand because he was the designated popcorn holder, and he just didn't bother to find a place to put it down (which can be difficult with some of those bags) before engaging in the argument again.

If the guy did make a conscious decision to throw popcorn at an old man, that's idiotic. You don't aggress against the elderly in any way, and even if they're aggressing against you - you should typically be willing to take it to some degree, and understand that they have lost some of their marbles, etc. You don't go throwing popcorn at people who are already being unreasonable and confrontational. Plus, that shit goes for like $8 a bag. Highway robbery.

I'd be very interested to know if he really did throw a full bag of popcorn at this guy, but ultimately that wouldn't really change my feeling that the shooting was unjustified.

 

[LTC8K6]

I haven't seen anyone argue that Reeves was carrying illegally. Maybe on other sites?

Reeves has already stated, after his rights were read, that Oulson threw an "unknown object" at him. The judge at the arraignment earlier today ruled that an unknown object does not constitute a deadly threat (which would be expected).
Multiple witnesses say there was no physical contact between the two men. One of the witnesses was an off-duty sheriffs deputy who apparently saw the entire incident from 5 seats over (and made the arrest).
The Pasco county sheriff's office and the Florida states attorney have already determined that stand your ground does not apply here.
The theater has confirmed that Reeves never spoke to the manager because he refused to wait while the manager helped another customer.

This is open and shut. Reeves screwed up. I predict plea bargain.

Both cell phones, and guns, were not allowed in the theater. That's why I stated the federal law, which allows Reeves to ignore the theater rule.

As far as Stand Your Ground, it will actually be up to Reeves and his lawyer whether or not to try that defense. Should they decide to try it, there would be a hearing on it.

Reeves is going to say, I think, that he didn't realize what Coulson was doing when he threw the bag at him, and just reacted to the motion and the object.

There's no telling what will be said, or will come out at a trial, if there is one.

We could end up with a different story, as media reports are often way off as to what was said and what happened, and who did what.

If the story we have now is fairly accurate, an ordinary defendant would be going to jail for life. This is no ordinary defendant, though.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

No one is saying the husband deserved to die because he threw the popcorn.

It could have been the husband threw the popcorn container at the excop and was about to hit the excop. Wife tried to stop husband. The excop thought he was in danger, acted automatically to danger as if he was on duty, and shot without thinking.

Remember the LA police shooting that truck? Or other incidents where cops automatically shoot when they feel they are in danger?


Same concept.

 

[Geosurface]

There are some very fast people out there when it comes to drawing and firing a gun, but I refuse to believe that any 70 year old man (or really, anyone of any age) can draw a concealed gun out of its holster, and aim it, and fire it all within such an instantaneous amount of time that they could somehow be doing it after an extremely rapid action like throwing popcorn at someone, or even throwing a punch at someone, had begun... but had not yet completed. Those actions don't last long enough for all that to happen WITHIN them.

I realize there are complexities regarding what you THINK someone might be preparing to do... and I don't doubt that the dead man was a douche to some degree... but unless I hear something very different, this looks to me like an old asshole lost his temper and robbed a young woman of her husband, a young girl of her father, and a man in the prime of his life of the remainder of his years.

Not waiting around for the manager to finish serving another customer first says a lot to me. This guy was a steaming hot head. Over texting DURING THE FUCKING PREVIEWS. Seems to me this old asshole didn't get the respect he felt he deserved from a younger man, and the respect he'd been accustomed to from citizens when he'd been a cop, and he decided to end someone's life (or run the very high risk of doing so) because he was irritated, and not patient enough to deal with it properly.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Both cell phones, and guns, were not allowed in the theater. That's why I stated the federal law, which allows Reeves to ignore the theater rule.

As far as Stand Your Ground, it will actually be up to Reeves and his lawyer whether or not to try that defense. Should they decide to try it, there would be a hearing on it.

Reeves is going to say, I think, that he didn't realize what Coulson was doing when he threw the bag at him, and just reacted to the motion and the object.

There's no telling what will be said, or will come out at a trial, if there is one.

We could end up with a different story, as media reports are often way off as to what was said and what happened, and who did what.

If the story we have now is fairly accurate, an ordinary defendant would be going to jail for life. This is no ordinary defendant, though.

Although LEOSA preempts state and local laws, there are two notable exceptions: "the laws of any State that (1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property" (such as a bars, private clubs, amusement parks, etc.), or "(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park" [1][9][10][11] Additionally, LEOSA does not override the federal Gun-Free School Zone Act (GFSZA) which prohibits carrying a firearm within 1,000 feet of elementary or secondary schools.

Any state laws wrt 1?

 

[Vaux]

After reading the new information, I am now leaning toward it being a bad shoot. While I believe that the old guy did fear for his safety, nothing he stated the victim did justified deadly force, if the statements are correct.

Also, for those that mentioned this situation being a mental illness issue - in that booking photo that green thing he is wearing is a suicide gown. When a jail deems that you are a threat to yourself, they take all of your clothes away and make you wear a puffy velcro dress that you cannot rip or fold. So he definitely made some suicidal threats or attempted to harm himself in the jail.

 

[LTC8K6]

Any state laws wrt 1?

I don't know, but LEOSA seems to be given priority in the courts.

 

[LTC8K6]

There are some very fast people out there when it comes to drawing and firing a gun, but I refuse to believe that any 70 year old man (or really, anyone of any age) can draw a concealed gun out of its holster, and aim it, and fire it all within such an instantaneous amount of time that they could somehow be doing it after an extremely rapid action like throwing popcorn at someone, or even throwing a punch at someone, had begun... but had not yet completed. Those actions don't last long enough for all that to happen WITHIN them.

I realize there are complexities regarding what you THINK someone might be preparing to do... and I don't doubt that the dead man was a douche to some degree... but unless I hear something very different, this looks to me like an old asshole lost his temper and robbed a young woman of her husband, a young girl of her father, and a man in the prime of his life of the remainder of his years.

Not waiting around for the manager to finish serving another customer first says a lot to me. This guy was a steaming hot head. Over texting DURING THE FUCKING PREVIEWS. Seems to me this old asshole didn't get the respect he felt he deserved from a younger man, and the respect he'd been accustomed to from citizens when he'd been a cop, and he decided to end someone's life (or run the very high risk of doing so) because he was irritated, and not patient enough to deal with it properly.

There are people, old and young, who can put several holes in you with a pistol, even a revolver, before you even realize anything is happening.

Not that Reeves is one.

You can find plenty of evidence on youtube.

 

[Vic]

The theater is private property and had a published policy against weapons, so LEOSA doesn't apply.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/...ement-bulletin/january2011/off_duty_firearms
" LEOSA does not supersede state laws permitting private property owners from limiting or prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons on their property.47 This would include public bars, private clubs, and places, such as amusement parks."

 

[Geosurface]

Btw I should clarify that I don't think the guy got shot just for texting. Clearly he could've "gotten away" with texting if he'd stopped when asked, or perhaps if he'd kept his own cool better when disagreeing with the shooter.

I realize he was shot moreso for arguing than for texting, but I find this damned near as unacceptable. I feel like the evidence is showing that he was irrationally shot simply because he exhibited some spine and stood up for himself. I think that old asshole thought "how dare this young punk do anything other than immediately comply with my request, and do so respectfully?"

Someone who refuses to stop texting during an actual movie, when the lights are down, everyone's seated, and people are trying to focus on the film, especially if they have those damned clicky noises whenever they make a keystroke unmuted, is a huge douche and if they won't stop doing so when others around them ask them to, they're a super huge douche. Nobody's denying that. Though obviously even a super huge douche like that wouldn't deserve death, even if they acted like a big prick when they were told to stop it, and made a scene during the film, arguing loudly, and disrupting others' viewing experience even more.

But this situation isn't that. This was during the previews. This was when people were still taking their seats and getting stuff at the concession stand. This is a completely appropriate time to take care of your last minute texts before you are about to be incommunicado for a couple of hours. Therefore, when someone douchily demands you stop doing so at such a time, I feel you are entitled to meet douche with douche to some degree and tell them to fuck off. Ideally, without actually using that phrase. What I would have said would be "don't worry, I'll be putting the phone away during the actual film, I'm just giving some final instructions to the babysitter." And if the person continued to harangue me about it, I'd probably switch seats or finish my texting quicker, or finish my texting at the back of the theater before taking my seat again. I'm good at defusing conflict. But I don't blame this guy for having a spine and standing up for himself. He was in the right.

 

[Exophase]

It's amazing how some of you keep referring to the popcorn throwing as assault. Maybe Florida law really does classify it as such, but that's really imbecilic. It'd be like calling assault on someone for reaching out and tapping you with a single finger. There is no possible way a bag of popcorn is going to do anything to anybody. Frankly, anyone shouting assault or crap about "projectiles" is showing an ugly side to themselves and should stop and think about how they're representing the gun carrying community :/

Both cell phones, and guns, were not allowed in the theater. That's why I stated the federal law, which allows Reeves to ignore the theater rule.

I strongly doubt any theater requires you to not bring your cell phone inside, you're just supposed to turn them off during the movie. Apparently some theaters will ask you to turn them off before the previews. The ones I'm used to will ask you to turn them off after. I haven't seen anyone claim what this particular theater does. But if there's nothing before the previews then you can't really claim that he was violating theater regulations.

The gun carrying violation is more cut and dry, but it seems pretty silly to draw attention to whether or not someone who just shot a guy was also violating the theater's regulations. One would result in getting kicked out of the theater at worst (probably not indefinitely), the other stands a good chance of putting the guy behind bars for the rest of his life.

Reeves is going to say, I think, that he didn't realize what Coulson was doing when he threw the bag at him, and just reacted to the motion and the object.

That would already seem to be what's happening.

There's no telling what will be said, or will come out at a trial, if there is one.

I feel like I'm missing something.. under what circumstances does something like this not go to trial..?

We could end up with a different story, as media reports are often way off as to what was said and what happened, and who did what.

If the story we have now is fairly accurate, an ordinary defendant would be going to jail for life. This is no ordinary defendant, though.

True, we could be missing something big. However, unlike a lot of recent shootings that have gotten big media coverage there were a lot of direct witnesses for this one. So I think there'll be fewer surprises this time around.

 

[LTC8K6]

Cases are plea bargained all the time. Plead guilty to a lesser charge. No trial.

The only reason that might happen here is because he's a retired officer.

These cops got clean away, even with a trial.

http://politicaloutcast.com/2014/01/ca-jury-totally-fine-police-torturing-unarmed-man-death/#!

 

[ivwshane]

Show me one post where I defended the shooter you stupid mother fucker!

I clearly said the shooter was in the wrong and should be locked up but you're too stupid to understand that.

You're full of shit and need to stop making assumptions.

Do you see that question mark at the end of the sentence? Yeah it means something, you ignorant stupid piece of shit! Learn to fucking read!

 

[ivwshane]

I think nehalem's point was that a good strategy to avoid being shot by someone whom is fucking crazy is to avoid being an asshole and pissing people off, in the off chance that they are fucking crazy and decide to shoot you. Good advice IMO.

Who is the asshole? The guy texting before the movie starts or the guy who repeatedly asks the texter to stop before the movie has even started?
How about minding your own fucking business and lighten the fuck up? I'd say the only asshole here is the guy that brought a gun to a movie theater! Did the off duty cop have a gun? That should tell you something.

 

[Venix]

The theater is private property and had a published policy against weapons, so LEOSA doesn't apply.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/...ement-bulletin/january2011/off_duty_firearms
" LEOSA does not supersede state laws permitting private property owners from limiting or prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons on their property.47 This would include public bars, private clubs, and places, such as amusement parks."

As far as I know, that's referring to laws like Texas' 30.06 signs, where ignoring the sign is a crime. "No guns allowed" signs in Florida have no force of law, so the only penalty for ignoring them is that the owner could ban you from his property if he finds out.

I thought that LEOSA superseded signs that have no force of law, much like how service animal laws supersede "no dogs allowed" signs, but I could be mistaken. I think we have some cops here who've used LEOSA, so maybe they can chime in.

 

[Geosurface]

Who is the asshole? The guy texting before the movie starts or the guy who repeatedly asks the texter to stop before the movie has even started?
How about minding your own fucking business and lighten the fuck up? I'd say the only asshole here is the guy that brought a gun to a movie theater! Did the off duty cop have a gun? That should tell you something.

I don't think there's anything wrong with him having had a gun there, I'm sure he's gone to many movies over the years with his gun and never even thought about unholstering it. Plus, if some James Holmes crazy had showed up, I'm sure everyone else in there would have been very glad he had that gun (assuming he successfully used it on the shooter.)

The issue isn't that he had a gun, the issue is that he was a hotheaded, pushy, impatient, aggressive asshole who badgered someone about doing something that wasn't even wrong because the movie hadn't started yet, and then shot them for no good reason, and possibly for no reason period.

 

[QuantumPion]

Who is the asshole? The guy texting before the movie starts or the guy who repeatedly asks the texter to stop before the movie has even started?

Both/either/it doesn't matter. Seems like the outcome would have been the same even if the positions were reversed. As you said, people need to mind their own business and lighten up, ESPECIALLY when you are carrying a gun. When you are carrying a deadly weapon for personal protection it is your duty to avoid confrontation at all costs, to prevent this sort of thing from happening in the first place.

 

[ElMonoDelMar]

There are people, old and young, who can put several holes in you with a pistol, even a revolver, before you even realize anything is happening.

Not that Reeves is one.

You can find plenty of evidence on youtube.

Wasn't it reported that he was carrying in a pocket holster? I doubt there are many (old or young) that could get off a shot from a pocket holster in the amount of time it would take for someone to throw popcorn 2 feet.

Honestly, even if he had it in his hand pointed at the guy's chest, I would doubt that most 70 year olds could even pull the trigger before the popcorn was thrown that short distance. Reaction is always slower than action.

 

[Orignal Earl]

There are some very fast people out there when it comes to drawing and firing a gun, but I refuse to believe that any 70 year old man (or really, anyone of any age) can draw a concealed gun out of its holster, and aim it, and fire it all within such an instantaneous amount of time that they could somehow be doing it after an extremely rapid action like throwing popcorn at someone, or even throwing a punch at someone, had begun... but had not yet completed. Those actions don't last long enough for all that to happen WITHIN them.

I realize there are complexities regarding what you THINK someone might be preparing to do... and I don't doubt that the dead man was a douche to some degree... but unless I hear something very different, this looks to me like an old asshole lost his temper and robbed a young woman of her husband, a young girl of her father, and a man in the prime of his life of the remainder of his years.

Not waiting around for the manager to finish serving another customer first says a lot to me. This guy was a steaming hot head. Over texting DURING THE FUCKING PREVIEWS. Seems to me this old asshole didn't get the respect he felt he deserved from a younger man, and the respect he'd been accustomed to from citizens when he'd been a cop, and he decided to end someone's life (or run the very high risk of doing so) because he was irritated, and not patient enough to deal with it properly.

Meet the Worlds Fastest Draw



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Munden

Fastest Gun Ever - Bob Munden

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcZHVspVIDs