Florida High School Shooting

[Younigue]

So you will block me if I continue, which you think I cannot stop, and its not for anyone other than me even though you think its impossible for it to impact me.

So what was the point then?

For my own amusement. That's what you're doing, right? Amusing yourself with your mundane ramblings? You've changed no one's minds. You've gone on and on in tedious fashion.

I will block you if you keep boring me. Every time I start reading a post and become bored I look to who the poster is and roll my eyes. There's enough eye rolling going on already with the vile Trumpublicans yapping their yaps. As I said, you are tedious. Certainly you are not interesting. I wish that was one of your gifts but... Anyway, you keep being you and I'll respond to that in whatever way I feel I must. Again, just letting you know to amuse myself.

If by some weirdness you wind up self-reflecting and decide to be less tedious in how you interact that would be fantastic and maybe, just maybe I will have planted one of the many seeds that prompted it.

Any way, power on little dude!

 

[HomerJS]

So they will need to make explicit threats about the nature and location of their planned crime in order to have their 2A rights taken, but, are allowed free in society otherwise?

What's an example of just borderline behavior that may or may not allow 2A rights taken? A domestic violence call with or without clear evidence of violence, being involved in a bar fight?

Wanna bet this guy still has his gun

 

[MomentsofSanity]

So gun control only works in certain types of countries?

So you want to argue "America, at least we are better than Venezuela?

An accurate measure would be to compare to countries similar in wealth, prosperity, culture. Comparing the U.S. to Cambodia just to win is not really a great comparison.

 

[jpeyton]

So they will need to make explicit threats about the nature and location of their planned crime in order to have their 2A rights taken, but, are allowed free in society otherwise?

My guess is that someone in his situation, who has no criminal record but has made a credible threat, would probably be issued probation and required counseling. I doubt they would incarcerate someone who hasn't committed a crime, but would try to rehabilitate them.

That said, if you've got a history of unstable behavior and you threaten to shoot up a school, I have no problem taking away your right to purchase firearms. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

The only reason you're defending Nikolas Cruz's right to buy an AR-15 is because you and I both know gun control is coming, and it's a slippery slope You're more worried about what's coming down the pipeline 6 months from now, a year from now, or 5 years from now.

I'd argue that if you really want to preserve as much of your status quo as possible, you might want to do everything possible to prevent the next Nikolas Cruz from purchasing an AR-15. The days of "shall not be infringed" are over; declining gun ownership guarantees infringement will happen, but the number of mass shootings going forward will dictate how much infringement will happen.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Which countries does the US resemble more politically, socially, and economically?

Depends on the region. Northeast? Probably east coast Australia, western europe, etc. Midwest/west? Lot of corollaries to Mexico. US is big.

 

[Younigue]

Anyone care to explain this?

But doesn't America like to consider itself better than those countries that are failing at gun control?

 

[SMOGZINN]

Because the worried calls and FBI tips turned out to be true in this one instance, now we are broadly expanding the ability to remove the 2A right of certain individuals? This is definitely a pretty dangerous precedent.

Whatever is considered a Credible threat needs to be looked at very carefully. If they are not going to be jailed for being "dangerous" i see no reason to ONLY confiscate their 2A right.

Can you honestly tell me there is an instance where somebody is too dangerous to be allowed in society with a gun, but not dangerous enough to not be in prison?

You are making a great argument on why we need strong comprehensive gun control. We can't accurately target dangerous individuals so we have to broadly limit availability.

 

[Bird222]

It might. Does that invalidate the point?

Seems odd. Maybe there is more to the issue than just gun control. Like I heard someone say, there was a time high-schoolers had guns in their trucks to go hunting after school and there wasn't this mass shooting problem. Something has changed in our psyche or something.

 

[HomerJS]

So you want to argue "America, at least we are better than Venezuela?

An accurate measure would be to compare to countries similar in wealth, prosperity, culture. Comparing the U.S. to Cambodia just to win is not really a great comparison.

Why does wealth indicate a propensity for gun violence?

 

[jackstar7]

Seems odd. Maybe there is more to the issue than just gun control. Like I heard someone say, there was a time high-schoolers had guns in their trucks to go hunting after school and there wasn't this mass shooting problem. Something has changed in our psyche or something.

Shotguns are not AR-15s. That's certainly a difference.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Why does wealth indicate a propensity for gun violence?

Good question, there's probably some element of human nature (in some people) whereupon perceived divides in class increases the propensity for people to do whatever is necessary to get ahead, including use violence. Pretty easy to see this just within the US.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Seems odd. Maybe there is more to the issue than just gun control. Like I heard someone say, there was a time high-schoolers had guns in their trucks to go hunting after school and there wasn't this mass shooting problem. Something has changed in our psyche or something.

Yup and the gun changed too, from breech loaded shotgun to a multi round designed for warfare weapon.

 

[jpeyton]

Seems odd. Maybe there is more to the issue than just gun control. Like I heard someone say, there was a time high-schoolers had guns in their trucks to go hunting after school and there wasn't this mass shooting problem. Something has changed in our psyche or something.

No, the issue is just gun control. I can name a dozen other countries that watch the same movies, play the same video games, and have the same societal norms we do.

We've figured out the NRA talking points:

1. Thoughts and prayers
2. Gun free zones
3. Mental health
4. Kids these days aren't raised right
5. Put Church back in school
6. We need more good guys with guns
7. It's the media's fault
8. It's violent video games and movies
9. ??? Feel free to add on to this list, I'm sure I've missed some

 

[vi edit]

No, the issue is just gun control. I can name a dozen other countries that watch the same movies, play the same video games, and have the same societal norms we do.

We've figured out the NRA talking points:

1. Thoughts and prayers
2. Gun free zones
3. Mental health
4. Kids these days aren't raised right
5. Put Church back in school
6. We need more good guys with guns
7. It's the media's fault
8. It's violent video games and movies
9. ??? Feel free to add on to this list, I'm sure I've missed some

The European socialistic liberals are taking away all of your rights and freedoms and we have to fight for them.

 

[realibrad]

I would think he also believes that those deaths - murders, suicides and tragic accidents - are generally worse than deaths due to bad eating habits. He shouldn't even have to say that. As I've repeatedly said, it's implicitly obvious. He shouldn't have to say, "oh, and by the way, murder is worse than hardened arteries."

You are often far too literal.

Ill grant that I am very literal vs how other are, but this is why those things happen. Its not because people want to deflect, but simply a misunderstanding. I know I usually try and verify before going much further, but simply asking the question is usually enough to get people defensive.

 

[realibrad]

They would only be a safety risk with a gun? They can otherwise be free? What about them stealing a gun? Should they be allowed to be free in society "if left untreated"?

Who said it could not be about other things "too"? The problem is many on the Right say that we should never infringe on rights, but, what if the person is mentally ill?

At some point if someone is deemed to be too much of a risk they may very well be removed from society. Everything is on a spectrum. Sometimes only some things need to be done depending.

Are you for something as simple as that?

 

[jpeyton]

BOOM SHAKA LAKA

Defying N.R.A., Florida Governor Backs Raising Age Limit on Assault Rifles

NRA is running scared and we have the momentum folks. Rick Scott was A+ rated by the NRA until a few moments ago.

 

[paperfist]

Interesting take on how credit card companies could limit or stop firearm sales:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

I suspect though most are bought in cash??!?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

BOOM SHAKA LAKA

Defying N.R.A., Florida Governor Backs Raising Age Limit on Assault Rifles

NRA is running scared and we have the momentum folks. Rick Scott was A+ rated by the NRA until a few moments ago.

And now he's a RINO and must be primaried at all costs!

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Interesting take on how credit card companies could limit or stop firearm sales:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

I suspect though most are bought in cash??!?

Doubtful, most firearms are going to be >$100 at an absolute minimum. I haven't even intentionally carried around a dollar bill in like 6 years.

 

[realibrad]

For my own amusement. That's what you're doing, right? Amusing yourself with your mundane ramblings? You've changed no one's minds. You've gone on and on in tedious fashion.

I will block you if you keep boring me. Every time I start reading a post and become bored I look to who the poster is and roll my eyes. There's enough eye rolling going on already with the vile Trumpublicans yapping their yaps. As I said, you are tedious. Certainly you are not interesting. I wish that was one of your gifts but... Anyway, you keep being you and I'll respond to that in whatever way I feel I must. Again, just letting you know to amuse myself.

If by some weirdness you wind up self-reflecting and decide to be less tedious in how you interact that would be fantastic and maybe, just maybe I will have planted one of the many seeds that prompted it.

Any way, power on little dude!

I'm not amusing myself with my posts. I am getting enjoyment from the conversations I am having with people. I am interested in two main things. One is seeing how others think, and the 2nd is seeing how that fits with my thoughts.

I enjoy talking about complex issues, so it goes to reason that the conversation might also be complex. If you do not enjoy that complexity and see it as tedious, then so be it. Block me if it makes your life happier I guess. I am more than willing to have a conversation with anyone and will likely enjoy doing so. If you don't want to then nobody should force you and you should not feel compelled.

 

[realibrad]

No, the issue is just gun control. I can name a dozen other countries that watch the same movies, play the same video games, and have the same societal norms we do.

We've figured out the NRA talking points:

1. Thoughts and prayers
2. Gun free zones
3. Mental health
4. Kids these days aren't raised right
5. Put Church back in school
6. We need more good guys with guns
7. It's the media's fault
8. It's violent video games and movies
9. ??? Feel free to add on to this list, I'm sure I've missed some

But the US has things that are different. The war on drugs is a big one. That has caused so much violence in minority communities. Violence appears to be a bigger factor in breeding gun violence than the number of guns. So, when you look at those other countries, ask yourself what steps has the state taken to cause violence in its communities like the US does.

 

[K1052]

BOOM SHAKA LAKA

Defying N.R.A., Florida Governor Backs Raising Age Limit on Assault Rifles

NRA is running scared and we have the momentum folks. Rick Scott was A+ rated by the NRA until a few moments ago.

Rick Scott would very very much like to be a US Senator.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

• Most Banks actually don't have 1.
• Protecting a bank is a whole fuck ton of shit different than guarding a building full of children.
• A bank at any point has a few innocent bystandards maybe even a dozen, uncommonly, in the building at any one point.
• A school has hundreds sometimes thousands.
• A bank is privately owned, a school is typically public.
• A bank has stuff to steal, a school is purely a rage act with no benefit to the shooter.

How can these 2 be compared in any way?

So your argument is that we shouldn't protect our kids? As a parent, I can assure you that your argument fucking sucks. I want people whom I entrust with my children to protect them.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Not particularly, but I can't remember the last time I was in a bank where a guard was present. Also, there are striking differences between a bank and a school. Banks typically have only one or two entrances, cover a much smaller amount of real estate, have drastically fewer people to protect/observe, don't tend to have suicidal shootouts (robbers tend to want to live after they've stolen the cash). I'm sure I could go on and on, but that was just off the top of my head.

So this is your reason that the person I entrusted with my child's safety should not be allowed to defend my child? In Florida, multiple teachers sacraficed their lives and bodies to sheild kids from bullets. I would like them to have the option to shoot the bad guy insead of blocking the bullets with their body. What is the purpose of an armed guard? Why do they exist? Why do people pay money to employ armed guards? Why should we NOT protect our most precious and defenseless members of society with the best means possible?