Florida High School Shooting

[realibrad]

It was not difficult to discern what he meant. In fact I told you what he meant several times and you ignored it. You may want to take your own advice about admitting when you’re wrong.

So it was not that nobody said it, it was that nobody meant it. Now who is being pedantic?

 

[realibrad]

The problem with this is that nearly anyone could be reported for essentially any reason. The first job is separating the phony/disgruntled/revenge tips from the legit ones. Then you have to separate the real threats out of the pool of legit tips. An organization only has so many resources to devote to this kind of thing. And even if you follow up, many could probably slip through.

Anyone can be reported, but its the job of trained people to figure out what is a real threat and what is not. Its the job of the FBI to not let thing fall through. All I have said is that its a mistake they made that could have saved 17 lives. Slipping through should not be accepted, but it is to be expected.

The point is that yeah, the FBI probably dropped the ball, so did the local authorities, but how can't they? It's a near-impossible task that follows terrorist math: "the murderers only need to be right once, the FBI needs to be right 100% of the time." Further, one wonders how many times they are successful in responding to these tips. There aren't any numbers on tragedies that never happened because of this system, and there never will be. But, obviously, the one crazy that gets through is never going to be tolerable for anyone.

Agreed. I think at worst the outcome should be people fired. People are human and make mistakes, but we should try and correct things.

Behind all of this, really, is the uncomfortbale acceptance that "better mental health" is a nonsense canard. It is only ever going to be discussed in hindsight, because none of this gets fixed until society as a whole puts on its big boy pants and starts making some hard decisions about changing this culture. That means actual sacrificies from people, for the common good: something we used to be pretty damn good at. Large sections of our population have lost their way, however. It's now all about "Me and muh Freedumb!"

I don't think mental health is a nonsense canard. It need to be something we try and fix. I see no reason we can have better gun regulations along with mental heath changes. I personally believe that guns are not the main issue, they just make things worse. As I said, we did not always have this problem, but we have always had guns.

 

[realibrad]

Of course he thinks of himself as a victim. He whines about it all the time.

Sure, but just not with this one tweet. Still shitty for the reasons I gave, just not him making himself a victim in that one tweet.

 

[realibrad]

That's a stupid thing to say.

Who was this post for and what was its purpose? Seems pointless without an explanation unless you felt your opinion was that important to give.

 

[fskimospy]

So it was not that nobody said it, it was that nobody meant it. Now who is being pedantic?

Uhmm...you?

A pedant is someone who is overly concerned with minor details. His intent was clear, and so focusing on what a specific word meant instead of what his entire post meant was basically the dictionary definition of pedantry.

 

[Jhhnn]

i beg to differ.

So there's more to it than just fun time at the range?

 

[mdram]

So there's more to it than just fun time at the range?

hunting, predator control (i live in the sticks)

 

[realibrad]

Uhmm...you?

A pedant is someone who is overly concerned with minor details. His intent was clear, and so focusing on what a specific word meant instead of what his entire post meant was basically the dictionary definition of pedantry.

Lol yes, just a minor difference. One being that someone wants to provoke people into starting the path of millions dead, and the other is taking guns away. Yes, such a trivial difference.

 

[momeNt]

I'm sure you have no idea how nutty that really is. Not a clue.

Russian troll bots saw a huge surge after the shooting. So yes, they are out there, and they are controlling the narrative for the most part.

 

[momeNt]

Perfect peace? Doesn't exist but it is the responsibility of the people to do its best to work toward it. Get rid of guns that can kill many people within minutes.

That's basically all of them. An 18 round 9mm could have effected similar levels of loss of life.

Between getting rid of guns, and getting rid of men in general, you will have peace. 90% of all violent crime is caused by men, certain things, like rape is 99% men. For all intents and purposes, being a parent of a male child, is quite literally like handling a loaded gun.

 

[realibrad]

That's basically all of them. An 18 round 9mm could have effected similar levels of loss of life.

Between getting rid of guns, and getting rid of men in general, you will have peace. 90% of all violent crime is caused by men, certain things, like rape is 99% men. For all intents and purposes, being a parent of a male child, is quite literally like handling a loaded gun.

Rape is not 99% men anymore now that being forced to penetrate is now considered rape. For a long time it was not.

Crime would be different, but not even close to gone.

 

[Jhhnn]

Russian troll bots saw a huge surge after the shooting. So yes, they are out there, and they are controlling the narrative for the most part.

So you're making some assumption that what? That the Russians are just stirring the shit over a nothingburger?

They love a heavily armed America. Their challenge is to get us shooting at each other more often & in a more organized way.

 

[a777pilot]

If only they were armed so they could defend themselves.
What we need are MORE teenagers with guns....

I agree. I know 17, 18 and 19 year old Marines that are heavily armed and very bad ass. Maybe will need more of them.

 

[soundforbjt]

I agree. I know 17, 18 and 19 year old Marines that are heavily armed and very bad ass. Maybe will need more of them.

If more guns were the answer, we’d be the safest country on earth

 

[a777pilot]

No way to prevent this, says only nation where this regularly happens.

Yes, there is. The rub is that the vast majority of the people don't want to hear it because it is not easy nor quick.

 

[Xellos2099]

IMO, better mental health will go a long way. You don't need a gun to kill people... anyone have the will and the mean can just rent a truck and go crazy and kill dozen if not hundred of people by running them over. You can't stop mass killing unless you change people heart and feeling. Although I do believe that having mental check but allowing purchase of gun would be better.

 

[momeNt]

So you're making some assumption that what? That the Russians are just stirring the shit over a nothingburger?

They love a heavily armed America. Their challenge is to get us shooting at each other more often & in a more organized way.

They want a divided America.

Tell me, how does this image make you feel? It was getting spread within 24 hours of the shooting. Do the Russians know what they are doing?

 

[realibrad]

If more guns were the answer, we’d be the safest country on earth

If less guns were the answer, then why are we at a 40 year low for gun ownership yet incidents like this are going up? In 1978 we were at 50% in terms of households that had guns. We are now down to 38%, and yet things like these are going up.

 

[Jhhnn]

That's basically all of them. An 18 round 9mm could have effected similar levels of loss of life.

Bullshit deflection. The reason mass murderers prefer military style carbines is that they're the best gun for the purpose. Very accurate & easy to use. They're highly developed & specialized for the purpose of killing people. They're also the choice of armed thugs all around the world.

 

[momeNt]

Bullshit deflection. The reason mass murderers prefer military style carbines is that they're the best gun for the purpose. Very accurate & easy to use. They're highly developed & specialized for the purpose of killing people. They're also the choice of armed thugs all around the world.

You'll be perfectly content with future school shootings once AR-15s are banned for them to be carried out with handguns? Is that another duhflection?

 

[soundforbjt]

If less guns were the answer, then why are we at a 40 year low for gun ownership yet incidents like this are going up? In 1978 we were at 50% in terms of households that had guns. We are now down to 38%, and yet things like these are going up.

Simple, look at other countries that have less guns and few mass shootings, what are the differences. Better healthcare? Non starter here because reasons.

 

[Sunburn74]

Anyone can be reported, but its the job of trained people to figure out what is a real threat and what is not. Its the job of the FBI to not let thing fall through. All I have said is that its a mistake they made that could have saved 17 lives. Slipping through should not be accepted, but it is to be expected.

Agreed. I think at worst the outcome should be people fired. People are human and make mistakes, but we should try and correct things.

I don't think mental health is a nonsense canard. It need to be something we try and fix. I see no reason we can have better gun regulations along with mental heath changes. I personally believe that guns are not the main issue, they just make things worse. As I said, we did not always have this problem, but we have always had guns.

MH is a non-sense canard. Currently about 7% of the US has or has had major depression and probably twice as many are undiagnosed. If these people go on to shoot someone, we blame the shooting on mental health despite mental health issues being so incredibly prevalent in our society. The question to ask is whether mental health problems are the cause of the shooting or an association? That is a question that society doesn't have an answer to. My personal feeling is that mental health disorders are associated with these types of shooting but not necessary causal. (I also have this belief with drugs and crime: drug use is strongly associated with crime but drug use on the whole doesn't cause users to commit crime. There is pretty good evidence that many of these arrested drug users were committing crimes well before they ever got caught with drugs or even started using drugs). Its like for example the association of smoking and schizophrenia: a ridiculously large proportion of schizophrenics smoke, most experts don't believe smoking causes schizophrenia). To me, saying these shooters are all mentally ill is an odd way to approach the situation as a society because its basically an unprovable point upon which people are trying to build policy. Its one of those self-fulfilling beliefs. If someone is a shooter but default then he is mentally ill in our society. That seems like a position that is easy to throw out but does it really stand on its own two feet? Can it proved? I think not.

 

[realibrad]

Simple, look at other countries that have less guns and few mass shootings, what is the differences. Better healthcare? Non starter here because reasons.

Yes, its likely due to better healthcare as well as differences in society. I also notice that you ignored your original stance that less guns means less violence. Again, we have had guns in this country from the start, and this mass shootings thing is recent. It seems silly to just focus on the tool that makes it easier to kill which has been around for 100% of the time in this country, and not look at what drives people here.

Ask yourself this, why does Switzerland not have the same gun problem that the US has given AR15s are legal there?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/maps-and-graphics/mapped-the-countries-with-the-most-guns/

From this article, it says that Switzerland has 45.7 guns per 100 people, yet they are not even close to what we see in the US.

 

[valera01]

[QUOTE = "momeNt, post: 39313124, member: 287684"] ¿Te contentarán perfectamente con los futuros tiroteos escolares una vez que se haya prohibido que los AR-15 se lleven a cabo con pistolas? ¿Es otra duhflection? [/ QUOTE]
segundonos dias si bien las personas tienen que tener en sus casas armas para defenderse a ellas y a sus familias, tendria que verse y que las gentes que tengan sas defensas hacerse cada año un examen psiquiatrico para que asi se determine si se le puede renovar la licencia para tener armas en sus hogares y no sean - al contrario un peligro para las familias y el entorno donde estos ciudadanos se desenvuelvan en sus quehaceres domestidos dis adia , esa es mi opinion al respecto de estos tiroteos,ok

 

[fskimospy]

If less guns were the answer, then why are we at a 40 year low for gun ownership yet incidents like this are going up? In 1978 we were at 50% in terms of households that had guns. We are now down to 38%, and yet things like these are going up.

And in 1978 we had way, way more gun murders than we have today. With that in mind it sure sounds like fewer guns are the answer.