Florida High School Shooting

[rise]

We all should admit the 2nd is outdated and so partisan centric and inflammatory that we are going to need a civil rights type movement to get tangible results. The states are going to have to surrender their rights to fed feds, sorry. Blame the NRA and the other crazies puching legislation as to make conceal carry transferable between states and other insane ideas. Its too powerful a lobby to begin with evidenced by iirc, 50mil(?) donated to repubs in 2018?

Fuck it, blow it up

 

[imported_tajmahal]

I don't know. They've gotten pretty extreme in their messaging. It's not the Klan but today's NRA is an incredibly irresponsibly-led organization that's doing serious harm to the American republic. As a person who likes shooting targets at a range I wish there was an alternative org for actually responsible gun owners to flock to.

There are a bunch, just look them up.
https://www.nssf.org/
https://www.saf.org/
http://www.usashooting.org/ Olympics.
https://uspsa.org/

 

[glenn1]

I don't know. They've gotten pretty extreme in their messaging. It's not the Klan but today's NRA is an incredibly irresponsibly-led organization that's doing serious harm to the American republic. As a person who likes shooting targets at a range I wish there was an alternative org for actually responsible gun owners to flock to.

I'm not a member but what are they doing which is extreme? Advocating for a political position which you or even most Americans disagree with isn't irresponsible. Lots of folks might disagree with Planned Parenthood advocating against late term pregnancy bans or Democrats urging against Voter ID laws which also enjoy supermajority support, likewise I don't begrudge the NRA for holding out against ill defined "gun control" measures which are also popular. The NRA saying that folks should be generally allowed to buy AR-15s or their other typical positions has nothing whatsoever in common with a group saying racist or religiously intolerant things.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

NRA is completely irresponsible. Basically a handful of people holding the entire country hostage politically.

Bullshit. It's a friendly little group of friendly people working to preserve our 2nd Amendment Rights. It's just fascists like you that have a problem with Constitutional Rights.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

We all should admit the 2nd is outdated and so partisan centric and inflammatory that we are going to need a civil rights type movement to get tangible results. The states are going to have to surrender their rights to fed feds, sorry. Blame the NRA and the other crazies puching legislation as to make conceal carry transferable between states and other insane ideas. Its too powerful a lobby to begin with evidenced by iirc, 50mil(?) donated to repubs in 2018?

Fuck it, blow it up

So you are sanctioning using violence and bombs against a political organization you disagree with and they're the ones with a problem?

 

[rise]

So you are sanctioning using violence and bombs against a political organization you disagree with and they're the ones with a problem?

Well, times have changed a bit, no? Why do you go right to violence? Plenty can be accomplished with today's tech that was impossible 50 years ago.

 

[rise]

So you are sanctioning using violence and bombs against a political organization you disagree with and they're the ones with a problem?

oh I see now, you grabbed the last 3 words I said, haha. Nice.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

oh I see now, you grabbed the last 3 words I said, haha. Nice.

You did notice that I included your entire post in my reply? I just find it somewhat alarming when people advocate violence to oppose a political organization.

 

[rise]

You did notice that I included your entire post in my reply? I just find it somewhat alarming when people advocate violence to oppose a political organization.

Yea, I'm not used to this new gui, I haven't posted in a long time.

Anyway, I used the phrase blow it up, not the literal sense. Though I don't really envision the NRA going away without violence ensuing, do you?

 

[IntelUser2000]

So, would consider some people that cause large amounts of carnage to be of sound mind?

boomerang,

You know its way more complicated than that. There's no way we'll know the full history of the person, and what he went through.

Mental illness can be separated broadly into two categories:
-Environmentally caused
-Physical instability(for mental illnesses its typically chemical imbalance)

It can go the other way, but even those that are normally sound can be put in a state of mind that seems crazy to an outsider. Like for example Soldiers that come back from a war and have PTSD.

We tend to be less compassionate and ignore some points that could have helped the person especially when the person is a stranger. Which may exacerbate the problem the person is suffering. It isn't until the person is close to us, whether loved ones or even among our friends, we start to understand. I won't conclude he wasn't at fault either. In this case though, to blame entirely on mental illness, or that he was simply evil, is being ignorant of what might have really happened here.

Societal ills are almost entirely the reason for environmental based mental illness. Unless that is dealt with, no amount of mental illness treatment advances, or gun rights are going to solve the problem. We're really wasting time here about bickering about gun rights.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Bullshit. It's a friendly little group of friendly people working to preserve our 2nd Amendment Rights. It's just fascists like you that have a problem with Constitutional Rights.

While I think the sunburns claim is a bit excessive, the NRA isn’t a little group of hunters any longer. Article in link is a few years old however I doubt it’s turned around.
Bulk of NRA income comes from the gun industry not NRA members. The NRA has become the marketing arm.

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-industry-funds-nra-2013-1

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Bullshit. It's a friendly little group of friendly people working to preserve our 2nd Amendment Rights. It's just fascists like you that have a problem with Constitutional Rights.

LOL, another winner from tajjy, 'a friendly little group'
You're a fucking imbecile

 

[Puffnstuff]

While I think the sunburns claim is a bit excessive, the NRA isn’t a little group of hunters any longer. Article in link is a few years old however I doubt it’s turned around.
Bulk of NRA income comes from the gun industry not NRA members. The NRA has become the marketing arm.

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-industry-funds-nra-2013-1

You guys should also check out the other heavy weight pro gun organization - Gun Owners of America (GOA). As you scroll down the page notice where they call main stream media coverage "fake news" and then you'll come to an understanding from where they take their direction which is from the rabid right.
https://gunowners.org/

While I agree that 2A should not be touched, just like our other rights should never be touched, I also believe that the appropriate titles under USC, primarily Title 18, should be modified to reflect the reality we face including further defining mental illness in express terms, screening procedures and all disqualifiers to gun ownership.

This wouldn't prohibit your right to gun ownership but would impose mental fitness standards for it just like we have for a drivers license. This would be no different than something like the ADA/ADAAA that defines disabilities for employers and their remedies such as with accommodations.

 

[glenn1]

You guys should also check out the other heavy weight pro gun organization - Gun Owners of America (GOA). As you scroll down the page notice where they call main stream media coverage "fake news" and then you'll come to an understanding from where they take their direction which is from the rabid right.
https://gunowners.org/

While I agree that 2A should not be touched, just like our other rights should never be touched, I also believe that the appropriate titles under USC, primarily Title 18, should be modified to reflect the reality we face including further defining mental illness in express terms, screening procedures and all disqualifiers to gun ownership.

This wouldn't prohibit your right to gun ownership but would impose mental fitness standards for it just like we have for a drivers license. This would be no different than something like the ADA/ADAAA that defines disabilities for employers and their remedies such as with accommodations.

I haven't seen anyone arguing against potential restrictions for those with mental or other impairments; the major concern is how the incapacity is defined and how it would be administered in terms of due process and appeal rights. Those aren't impossible problems to solve but the pro-gun control side shouldn't merely hand wave them away either.

 

[SMOGZINN]

I haven't seen anyone arguing against potential restrictions for those with mental or other impairments; the major concern is how the incapacity is defined and how it would be administered in terms of due process and appeal rights. Those aren't impossible problems to solve but the pro-gun control side shouldn't merely hand wave them away either.

I think most reasonable people will agree that there needs to be some restrictions on firearms. We are only really arguing about the details. The problem is that the fanatics are using that argument to make sure that as little as possible gets done because of decision paralysis. Their goal seems to be to keep the argument going so that we can't actually implement even the most reasonable of the ideas.

 

[HomerJS]

I'm not a member but what are they doing which is extreme? Advocating for a political position which you or even most Americans disagree with isn't irresponsible. Lots of folks might disagree with Planned Parenthood advocating against late term pregnancy bans or Democrats urging against Voter ID laws which also enjoy supermajority support, likewise I don't begrudge the NRA for holding out against ill defined "gun control" measures which are also popular. The NRA saying that folks should be generally allowed to buy AR-15s or their other typical positions has nothing whatsoever in common with a group saying racist or religiously intolerant things.

How about this?

In 2014, two gun-rights organizations, Florida Carry and the Second Amendment Foundation, sued the city of Tallahassee and various of its officials over a pair of laws, passed in 1957 and 1988, that prohibit residents from discharging firearms in public parks. Those local regulations retroactively violated a Florida state law, passed in 2011, preempting local governments from passing any ordinances that regulate guns.

On Tuesday, Tallahassee Mayor Andrew Gillum will appear before Florida’s First District Court of Appeal for oral arguments in that continuing case. Except Gillum will not have the benefit of Tallahassee’s legal team behind him: The same Florida state preemption law prohibits the use of public funds in defending local government officials in any dispute over gun ordinances. So, in this case, the mayor had to procure pro-bono representation.

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2017/01/a-florida-mayor-fights-the-gun-lobby/512345/

 

[bshole]

Dunno if this true but if so, it certainly is a perception changer for me. Is it true?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Dunno if this true but if so, it certainly is a perception changer for me. Is it true?

Looks about right but it should be labelled homicides by weapon, not deaths. The numbers for hand guns are a little lower than the raw data and a little higher for the knives. Also the FBI totals are for knives and other cutting weapons.

 

[interchange]

Hey we could always go full on minority report. Fortunately fantasizing about committing a crime isn't a crime, but it is a cry for help.

 

[Incorruptible]

We all should admit the 2nd is outdated and so partisan centric and inflammatory that we are going to need a civil rights type movement to get tangible results. The states are going to have to surrender their rights to fed feds, sorry. Blame the NRA and the other crazies puching legislation as to make conceal carry transferable between states and other insane ideas. Its too powerful a lobby to begin with evidenced by iirc, 50mil(?) donated to repubs in 2018?

Fuck it, blow it up

You're pathetic. The 2nd Amendment is necessary for Americans to defend themselves. You should be ashamed of yourself for trying to take away peoples rights like this.

 

[glenn1]

How about this?

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2017/01/a-florida-mayor-fights-the-gun-lobby/512345/

Not the NRA unless they’re a subdivision or something. And more importantly, they’ll either have the court rule that they’re correct on their interptetation of the law or not. Your problem should be with the state legislature that passed the law (and possibly the town that passed their law depending on how it’s written) and not the organization suing to enforce it. The court could throw out the state statute if its unconstitutional or the voters can change the legislature at the next election.

Again, an organization advocating for policy positions you disagree with doesn’t make them evil, even if their success rate frustrates you.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I haven't seen anyone arguing against potential restrictions for those with mental or other impairments; the major concern is how the incapacity is defined and how it would be administered in terms of due process and appeal rights. Those aren't impossible problems to solve but the pro-gun control side shouldn't merely hand wave them away either.

The Obama administration tried to accomplish some of this but Trump removed it during his second month in office. The fact he did it in secret while we have this violent crisis on our hand speaks volumes about his lack of understanding or ability to really care about the issue as demonstrated by this excerpt.

"Trump signed the bill into law without a photo op or fanfare. The president welcomed cameras into the oval office Tuesday for the signing of other executive orders and bills. News that the president signed the bill was tucked at the bottom of a White House email alerting press to other legislation signed by the president."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...ng-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221
https://www.snopes.com/trump-sign-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-illnesses/

 

[rise]

You're pathetic. The 2nd Amendment is necessary for Americans to defend themselves. You should be ashamed of yourself for trying to take away peoples rights like this.

Wonder how this would've turned out with your idea of people "defending" themselves.
http://whnt.com/2018/02/17/rowdy-family-booted-from-ship-after-cruise-turns-to-bloodbath/

 

[glenn1]

The Obama administration tried to accomplish some of this but Trump removed it. The fact he did it in secret while we have this violent crisis on our hand speaks volumes about his lack of understanding or ability to really care about the issue as demonstrated by this excerpt.

"Trump signed the bill into law without a photo op or fanfare. The president welcomed cameras into the oval office Tuesday for the signing of other executive orders and bills. News that the president signed the bill was tucked at the bottom of a White House email alerting press to other legislation signed by the president."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...ng-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221
https://www.snopes.com/trump-sign-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-illnesses/

Here is some context from the NY

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/16/us/politics/fact-check-parkland-gun-violence-mental-illness.html

“Your very first acts as president, Mr. Trump, was to actually roll back the regulations that were designed to keep firearms out of the hands of the mentally ill.” — Late-night host Jimmy Kimmel.
True, but the rule’s scope was narrow.
After Mr. Trump focused on mental health in his national address on Thursday in response to the Parkland shooting, many journalists, activists and others, like Mr. Kimmel, noted the repeal of a rule that would have prevented “seriously mentally ill” people from purchasing guns.

Federal law already bars anyone who “has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution” from purchasing a gun. And a majority of states have laws requiring them to report mental health information to the national background check system. But gaps in the system still exist.

After the Newtown shooting, President Obama proposed adding another data source to the background check system: reports from the Social Security Administration of people who receive disability benefits through a third party because of mental impairments. According to a 2016 White House fact sheet, the rule would have affected 75,000 people.

It was opposed by the National Rifle Association, but also the American Civil Liberties Union, which said the rule violated civil rights. Some disability rights groups also argued against the rule on the basis that it perpetuated stigmas about mental illness.

Mr. Trump signed a congressional resolution that expressed disapproval of the proposed rule in February 2017, nine months before compliance would have been required.

 

[evident]

www.thoughtsandprayersthegame.com