Florida governor orders random drug testing of state employees and welfare recipients

[sandorski]

"Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

- US Constitution

If you wanna sign up to leech off society then I don't see any problem with you having to consent to a drug test first.

Theres a difference between a person who is going about their business and is not asking to live off of others and someone who is asking for money for society to take care of him or her.
Why is this so hard to understand?

I win btw.

Where does the Constititution state this?

 

[sandorski]

To apply for government benefits you are required to disclose information that may otherwise be protected under the 4th amendment.

Re: Testing of state employees. I'm pretty sure state employment policies prohibit drug use by employees (in addition to regular anti drug laws applicable to all). However, federal court has already ruled against random testing of employees. I can only guess that this testing policy has been modified in an effort to get around the previous policy's problem.

Re: Testing welfare recipients. Firstly, I have a question - are welfare benefits currently denied under law to illegal drug users? If not, I can hardly see this passing a court test. If it is, them they've had an entirely 'toothless' requirement on the law books for some time.

No matter, this will be going to court.

Fern

You have to prove Need. Of course that requires Financial information to be given.

 

[xj0hnx]

Because drug testing is a violation of the fourth amendment? Just because a right wing packed court said it was ok does not make it so.

No, it's not if you want something that requires it. It would be a violation if they just randomly grabbed people off the street and tested them, but they aren't.

 

[matt0611]

Where does the Constititution state this?

Where does it say that the states have the rights to make reasonable requirement to people before signing up for welfare?

The same place where the states get all of their power:

"Amendment 10: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

 

[sandorski]

Would you not consider a drug test as a "search"? Surely you do...

Drug testing (searching) every citizen against their will just for being a citizen of the united states, is a search without a warrant or probable cause and is a clear violation of their right to privacy and being secure in their person. Its spelled out quite clearly in the fourth amendment.

Uhh, ya. That's wahtta I been sayin. Applying for Financial Assistance is not a Crime y'all.

 

[matt0611]

Uhh, ya. That's wahtta I been sayin. Applying for Financial Assistance is not a Crime y'all.

Is applying for a job a crime?
No, but your employer can still ask you for a drug test.

Welfare is like a job, except you don't do anything to earn the money.

 

[Jhhnn]

I don't endorse the government searching MY body for banned substances, I support searching people who are taking MY money and living off of it to make sure the money is not being used in an abusive way.

What is so bad about making some restrictions about those who are living off other peoples money?

I rather the people who actually could use the money and put it to good use to have it, rather than people who are just going to buy drugs with it.

(as an aside, I support freedom aka ending the war on drugs)

Drug testing for congresscritters and Wall St bankers? What a great idea!

Let's face it, Florida Repubs have a lot to answer for, and they'd really rather not, so they need scapegoats and distractions. People on welfare are the perfect victims for this kind of stuff, obviously, and civil servants are easy targets, too, particularly when unemployment rates are astronomical. It's officially 11.9% in Florida, but the reality is obviously much higher.

The greatest number of welfare recipients are actually children, and I'm not keen on them going hungry because mommy shared a joint last friday. It's all just stiff-dick grandstanding and blame shifting, anyway, and anybody who actually supports it is a total chump.

 

[Fern]

You have to prove Need. Of course that requires Financial information to be given.

You have to prove you meet the qualifications. Need is one of them.

If the law states a qualification is no illegal use, you would have to prove that too.

Fern

 

[CitizenKain]

No one gives a shit what you think, drinking is legal, if it wasn't they would be testing for that too when they randomly test them for drugs.

Still don't get it. Not sure I can dumb this concept down for you enough, so I'm going to give up.

 

[xj0hnx]

Still don't get it. Not sure I can dumb this concept down for you enough, so I'm going to give up.

You should have stopped before you ever posted your dribble. For most I'd have a hard time believing they were too dumb to get it, but from you not so much.

 

[majob1112]

Welfare checks are used to purchase the necessities of life. Illegal drugs are not a necessity of life and those who use their welfare to buy said drugs are committing fraud and need to be cut off. Being poor doesn't exempt you from the law.

Government workers aren't any more special than their private industry counterparts who also receive random drug testing. They're employees for me as my tax dollars pay them. I want to make sure that the people who are hired to work off my money aren't using it irresponsibly.

I personally hate drugs and the people who use them but even I can see the fallacy of the current war on drugs, that doesn't mean that the law of the land doesn't matter.

 

[PeshakJang]

Military signed their life away in exchange for money and benefits.

So what's wrong with making those that wish to receive welfare do the same? Added bonus, they do none of the work that military folk do!

Tax money is tax money. The people have the right to dictate how the money is spent. Don't like the conditions? Don't take the money.

End of story.

 

[sandorski]

Welfare checks are used to purchase the necessities of life. Illegal drugs are not a necessity of life and those who use their welfare to buy said drugs are committing fraud and need to be cut off. Being poor doesn't exempt you from the law.

Government workers aren't any more special than their private industry counterparts who also receive random drug testing. They're employees for me as my tax dollars pay them. I want to make sure that the people who are hired to work off my money aren't using it irresponsibly.

I personally hate drugs and the people who use them but even I can see the fallacy of the current war on drugs, that doesn't mean that the law of the land doesn't matter.

Drugs are the only "irresponsible" use? What if a Welfare recipient Takes $20 of their Welfare cheque, buys a Gram, smokes it, is that "irresponsible"? More irresponsible than buying Lotto Tickets? Doritos? Porn?

 

[sandorski]

So what's wrong with making those that wish to receive welfare do the same? Added bonus, they do none of the work that military folk do!

Tax money is tax money. The people have the right to dictate how the money is spent. Don't like the conditions? Don't take the money.

End of story.

People don't apply for Welfare as a Career choice, but out of necessity.

 

[Fern]

Drugs are the only "irresponsible" use? What if a Welfare recipient Takes $20 of their Welfare cheque, buys a Gram, smokes it, is that "irresponsible"? More irresponsible than buying Lotto Tickets? Doritos? Porn?

You've argued yourself into the position where it appears you actually support welfare recipients using welfare money to buy illegal drugs.

They are supposed to be using the money to house and feed themselves and their children.

Fern

 

[matt0611]

Drug testing for congresscritters and Wall St bankers? What a great idea!

Let's face it, Florida Repubs have a lot to answer for, and they'd really rather not, so they need scapegoats and distractions. People on welfare are the perfect victims for this kind of stuff, obviously, and civil servants are easy targets, too, particularly when unemployment rates are astronomical. It's officially 11.9% in Florida, but the reality is obviously much higher.

The greatest number of welfare recipients are actually children, and I'm not keen on them going hungry because mommy shared a joint last friday. It's all just stiff-dick grandstanding and blame shifting, anyway, and anybody who actually supports it is a total chump.

Go ahead, test congress too. Good luck getting that bill passed though lol

 

[sandorski]

You've argued yourself into the position where it appears you actually support welfare recipients using welfare money to buy illegal drugs.

They are supposed to be using the money to house and feed themselves and their children.

Fern

...and if they do that and have a few bucks left over?

 

[marincounty]

Very well said. A big measure of privacy should be lost the minute you expect someone else to give you money.

This will result in smaller government when people who do drugs get kicked off welfare. I'm sure when that happens liberals will organize private charity to support these poor drug users, 'cause liberals care about people, not just about people's money.

They already have Medical marijuana clubs that give free marijuana to the sick and needy.
Yes, they are probably liberals. Righties would never think of anyone but themselves.

 

[Darwin333]

Why not, is it less illegal if someone who isn't on state welfare if they do it or is it more illegal?

If you want to live in a society of laws, the least you could do is to prove that you follow the law by submitting to random drug tests.

See how that works, everyone who benefits from living in a society needs to follow the laws set in that society, it doesn't matter where they get their money from, except if you are a fascist and want to differentiate between classes of people, but i'm sure you are no fascist, right?

You can't win a discussion like this because everyone is essentially equal, regardless of where they get their money, not unless you want to institute fascism as law, that also means taking away rights for some people, you know, "undesirables", if you are fine with that then just move to Pakistan, they do that all the time.

Exactly.

Since most people who have jobs must submit to random drug screenings or at the least pre-employment drug screenings it would be fascist to not screen people on welfare too, right?

 

[Darwin333]

...and if they do that and have a few bucks left over?

Allowing them to spend it as they please as long as it isn't spent on illegal activities seems like a pretty fair deal. I'd take that deal in a heartbeat.

 

[PeshakJang]

Exactly.

Since most people who have jobs must submit to random drug screenings or at the least pre-employment drug screenings it would be fascist to not screen people on welfare too, right?

If we are going to make purchasing health insurance a condition of citizenship, then mandatory health screenings, including drug tests, should be required as well.

It's for society, after all, comrade.

 

[Darwin333]

Where does the Constititution state this?

Same spot it says they can make the items in question illegal.

 

[marincounty]

Don't stop there with your fight against facism. Drug tests for everyone, schoolchildren, grandmas, maybe we could even have random drug test checkpoints. I mean, it's already ok to have checkpoints to fight the scourge of drunken driving, it only makes sense to also rid the roads of druggies .

 

[Darwin333]

If we are going to make purchasing health insurance a condition of citizenship, then mandatory health screenings, including drug tests, should be required as well.

It's for society, after all, comrade.

Shrug, they can get it from my employer or my doctor can include it in the tests he already runs on my urine.

Like I have said a thousand times, I completely disagree with the drug laws in this country and the enforcement is even worse. However, if I gotta do it then fuck em. Maybe it will piss enough people off to finally care about those of us who are rowing the boat.

 

[Darwin333]

Don't stop there with your fight against facism. Drug tests for everyone, schoolchildren, grandmas, maybe we could even have random drug test checkpoints. I mean, it's already ok to have checkpoints to fight the scourge of drunken driving, it only makes sense to also rid the roads of druggies .

They can legally draw your blood here against your consent, so you are a day late and a dollar short on that one.

They literally hold you down on the side of the road and take your blood if you refuse.