Florida governor orders random drug testing of state employees and welfare recipients

[JohnOfSheffield]

Woah stop right there.

How is this fucking over the poor? It's only fucking them if they are doing illegal drugs while soaking up govt money.

If they lose their bennies it's because they FUCKED THEMSELVES.

If they are willing to do drugs and risk losing their benifits, then obviously welfare was not that important to them.

Why not institute it for EVERYONE, it's only fucking them over if they are breaking the law.

Could it be because everyone is supposed to be equal in the eye of the law... eh... no? Fascism rules? Great, now bend over sonny boy.

 

[matt0611]

Why not, is it less illegal if someone who isn't on state welfare if they do it or is it more illegal?

If you want to live in a society of laws, the least you could do is to prove that you follow the law by submitting to random drug tests.

See how that works, everyone who benefits from living in a society needs to follow the laws set in that society, it doesn't matter where they get their money from, except if you are a fascist and want to differentiate between classes of people, but i'm sure you are no fascist, right?

You can't win a discussion like this because everyone is essentially equal, regardless of where they get their money, not unless you want to institute fascism as law, that also means taking away rights for some people, you know, "undesirables", if you are fine with that then just move to Pakistan, they do that all the time.

"Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

- US Constitution

If you wanna sign up to leech off society then I don't see any problem with you having to consent to a drug test first.

Theres a difference between a person who is going about their business and is not asking to live off of others and someone who is asking for money for society to take care of him or her.
Why is this so hard to understand?

I win btw.

 

[Train]

Why not institute it for EVERYONE, it's only fucking them over if they are breaking the law.

Could it be because everyone is supposed to be equal in the eye of the law... eh... no? Fascism rules? Great, now bend over sonny boy.

Why test someon who is minding their own business?

If you want something from someone (in this case the govt), its completely acceptable for that someone to ask for some sort of validation, or to lay dow some ground rules.

I mean shit, it's not like they are asking you to show up to a job everyday for your money like normal people, that would fucking suck, just piss in a cup. One little requirement.

 

[CitizenKain]

Because you're not mentally competent enough to follow, the difference is they WORK for their money, and already DO get drug tested, they didn't come to the government asking to get taxpayer money to support their lives. I know the concept might befuddle you at first, but if you try real hard you might get it.

Once again, I'm paying their salary, therefore soldiers should no longer be able to drink, because it offends me.

 

[matt0611]

Once again, I'm paying their salary, therefore soldiers should no longer be able to drink, because it offends me.

Once again, active duty military officers are tested randomly for drugs.

 

[OCGuy]

Once again, I'm paying their salary, therefore soldiers should no longer be able to drink, because it offends me.

Huh? Drinking isn't illegal.

Even so, food-stamp recipients cant buy booze with them. People on government aide need to be spending the money on essentials only.

Soldiers are working for the money. Terrible analogy.

 

[werepossum]

"Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

- US Constitution

If you wanna sign up to leech off society then I don't see any problem with you having to consent to a drug test first.

Theres a difference between a person who is going about their business and is not asking to live off of others and someone who is asking for money for society to take care of him or her.
Why is this so hard to understand?

I win btw.

Very well said. A big measure of privacy should be lost the minute you expect someone else to give you money.

This will result in smaller government when people who do drugs get kicked off welfare. I'm sure when that happens liberals will organize private charity to support these poor drug users, 'cause liberals care about people, not just about people's money.

 

[xj0hnx]

Once again, I'm paying their salary, therefore soldiers should no longer be able to drink, because it offends me.

No one gives a shit what you think, drinking is legal, if it wasn't they would be testing for that too when they randomly test them for drugs.

 

[xj0hnx]

"Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

- US Constitution

If you wanna sign up to leech off society then I don't see any problem with you having to consent to a drug test first.

Theres a difference between a person who is going about their business and is not asking to live off of others and someone who is asking for money for society to take care of him or her.
Why is this so hard to understand?

I win btw.

Yip.

As easy as you think it would be to understand, having it explained so simply there will still be someone that either doesn't get it, or just doesn't want to because it doesn't fit their agenda.

 

[marincounty]

Simple solution, just legalize drugs. Quit pretending this is anything but right wing harassment of welfare recipients. They have never liked it so they put up as many barriers to receiving aid as possible. The means testing, showing of utility, rent bills, workfare requirements and fingerprinting aren't good enough for you to receive $300 per month, we need to drug test you also.
I have a better idea, let's drug test all of those that receive a mortgage interest deduction. Or maybe test those that use roads paid for with federal money.

 

[OCGuy]

Simple solution, just legalize drugs. Quit pretending this is anything but right wing harassment of welfare recipients. They have never liked it so they put up as many barriers to receiving aid as possible. The means testing, showing of utility, rent bills, workfare requirements and fingerprinting aren't good enough for you to receive $300 per month, we need to drug test you also.
I have a better idea, let's drug test all of those that receive a mortgage interest deduction. Or maybe test those that use roads paid for with federal money.

Oh look, a Norcal bleeding-heart! Color me shocked!


I have an idea for them if they dont like all the hoops and red tape....get a job!

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I have a better idea, let's drug test all of those that receive a mortgage interest deduction. Or maybe test those that use roads paid for with federal money.

Sounds good to me. I've been subject to random drug screens during most of my military service as well as now with the company I've worked for the last 20 years.

 

[thegimp03]

A lot of people have to have drug screening done as part of their job application. Why would requiring it to receive free handouts be any different? Some druggie welfare recipient shouldn't be able to game the system to pay for their habit.

 

[Fern]

Incorrect. You do not rescind your Civil Rights in order to collect Government Assistance.

To apply for government benefits you are required to disclose information that may otherwise be protected under the 4th amendment.

Re: Testing of state employees. I'm pretty sure state employment policies prohibit drug use by employees (in addition to regular anti drug laws applicable to all). However, federal court has already ruled against random testing of employees. I can only guess that this testing policy has been modified in an effort to get around the previous policy's problem.

Re: Testing welfare recipients. Firstly, I have a question - are welfare benefits currently denied under law to illegal drug users? If not, I can hardly see this passing a court test. If it is, them they've had an entirely 'toothless' requirement on the law books for some time.

No matter, this will be going to court.

Fern

 

[marincounty]

Oh look, a Norcal bleeding-heart! Color me shocked!


I have an idea for them if they dont like all the hoops and red tape....get a job!

Oh look, an orange county Republican hostile to the poor. What a shocker.
Let's just drug test everyone and have a facist police state. Who needs a constitution?

 

[OCGuy]

Oh look, an orange county Republican hostile to the poor. What a shocker.
Let's just drug test everyone and have a facist police state. Who needs a constitution?

Nah, that doesn't sound like a good idea. I say we only drug test those on welfare.

 

[Fern]

A lot of people have to have drug screening done as part of their job application. Why would requiring it to receive free handouts be any different? Some druggie welfare recipient shouldn't be able to game the system to pay for their habit.

Employer policies state that they do not employees to use illegal drugs. So, they can check to ensure one meetrs that qualification.

If welfare rules require that applicants may not use illegal drugs they may well be able to test, just like employers.

Fern

 

[PeshakJang]

Oh look, an orange county Republican hostile to the poor. What a shocker.
Let's just drug test everyone and have a facist police state. Who needs a constitution?

And let's force everyone to buy insurance while we are at it. That would really piss off those anti-fascist liberals.

 

[thegimp03]

And let's force everyone to buy insurance while we are at it. That would really piss off those anti-fascist liberals.

lol, brilliant idea...oh wait....

 

[xj0hnx]

Oh look, an orange county Republican hostile to the poor. What a shocker.
Let's just drug test everyone and have a facist police state. Who needs a constitution?

This doesn't have anything to do with the Constitution, it isn't a violation of anyone's rights because they do not have to apply for welfare. You trying to pretend that it is somehow similar is beyond disingenuous.

 

[marincounty]

This doesn't have anything to do with the Constitution, it isn't a violation of anyone's rights because they do not have to apply for welfare. You trying to pretend that it is somehow similar is beyond disingenuous.

Because drug testing is a violation of the fourth amendment? Just because a right wing packed court said it was ok does not make it so.

 

[werepossum]

Sounds good to me. I've been subject to random drug screens during most of my military service as well as now with the company I've worked for the last 20 years.

But to a hardline progressive line MC, you're inherently evil for being an employee of a corporation (the Little Satan) and the US military (The BIG Satan.) Welfare recipients on the other hand are noble creatures victimized by a cruel capitalist society that has beaten them down. Even those too stoned to stand up anyway. Therefore you should be tested and deserve higher taxes, whereas they deserve more benefits at your expense.

 

[matt0611]

Because drug testing is a violation of the fourth amendment? Just because a right wing packed court said it was ok does not make it so.

Would you not consider a drug test as a "search"? Surely you do...

Drug testing (searching) every citizen against their will just for being a citizen of the united states, is a search without a warrant or probable cause and is a clear violation of their right to privacy and being secure in their person. Its spelled out quite clearly in the fourth amendment.

 

[marincounty]

Nice strawman. Nobody should be tested except those in transportation or law enforcement. Military signed their life away in exchange for money and benefits.
Why do hardline righties endorse having the government search their bodies for banned substances? Why do you hate freedom?

 

[matt0611]

Nice strawman. Nobody should be tested except those in transportation or law enforcement. Military signed their life away in exchange for money and benefits.
Why do hardline righties endorse having the government search their bodies for banned substances? Why do you hate freedom?

I don't endorse the government searching MY body for banned substances, I support searching people who are taking MY money and living off of it to make sure the money is not being used in an abusive way.

What is so bad about making some restrictions about those who are living off other peoples money?

I rather the people who actually could use the money and put it to good use to have it, rather than people who are just going to buy drugs with it.

(as an aside, I support freedom aka ending the war on drugs)