Florida Election law on deadlines - judge upholds deadline

[ride525]

Wiin,

Hmmmm...interesting and unbiased(?) sources. Here's the latest article there...
Gore Lawyers Urge Ballot Sent from Cuba

How true is all this? If true, SOME of the news media would have picked this up....

 

[chess9]

Michael:

The local station here said they can appeal directly to the Florida Supreme Court. No Appeals Court will be necessary, but someone MAY go to the 1St District Court of Appeals (per Channel 9 here).

We'll find out shortly.

 

[fdiskboy]

Chess9,

I hope you know that any validity your arguments may have is completely erased when you resort to personal attacks. It shows weakness to dismiss someone as an "inbred clone" just because they don't agree with you or even have some "outlandish" belief.

You want to call Michael Jackson a "freak", that's pretty much established fact. Anyone else, and you run the risk of not being taken seriously.

Note: I have not personally attacked you here, just some friendly advice. I just don't like being called an "inbred clone". Inbred maybe. Clone, never.

 

[Russ]

<< The Lawer is from and lives in Broward and would be filing as a DEMOcrat from Broward >>



Bwuahahahaha!!!!!!! Nice try, Shux. He's a lawyer FOR the democrat party. He's acting on behalf of the democrat party. Spin it any way you want, but it's clear the democrats LIED when they said all they want is a &quot;fair and accurate&quot; count.

This action makes it clear that the real agenda is to force sloppy manual recounts, even when they are clearly not needed, in the desperate hope that the subjective nature of the process will magicaly produce some more votes for Bore.

Anyone who can't see that is either blind, or refuses to see.

Russ, NCNE

 

[ride525]

<< Charles Lichtman, an attorney for the Democratic party in Broward County, told CNN that the Democrats will go to court to try to force the county to complete the recount. >>



Shux,

Looks to me that Russ is right on this one. (Am I sick today, agreeing with RUSS? Have I come over to the Dark Side? )

Anyway, I think Russ's quote was directly from CNN. I heard too, that the Democrats were going to court to try and get the manual recount done in Broward County.

 

[SuperTool]

<< hes just trying to get Florida not counted >>


Las time I checked, the republican secretary of state wanted to certify Florida with only half the votes certified by counties. So the Republicans should keep the rhetoric down a bit, and sit down.

 

[Michael]

Supertool - They would certify using what has already been turned in. That means the worst case is the results after the first count for all counties. Probably all the machine recounts would be included as well. Plus, more than 1/2 the counties have been turned in.

Michael

 

[Michael]

Judge upholds deadline!

Michael

 

[fdiskboy]

Michael, is your sig from Beowulf?

 

[Capn]

someone stick a fork in gore I think he's done.

 

[Michael]

Yes - from Beowulf's boast/oath when he first promised to deal with Grendel.

Michael

ps - since Russ likes to toss in NCNE, here's mine:

B. Comm., D.PA, CA, KSCA (the last one will give a clue as to why I'm into things like Beowulf)

 

[chess9]

Michael and Capn:

This is far from over. The judge really did little more than continue the suspense. He told Harris she DOES have discretion to accept the ballots after 5 p.m. today. If she arbitrarily refuses to accept late ballots, then she has abused her discretion. The kicker is the counties have to believe that they have good reason for a recount. Neither side really won.

The Dems will appeal I assume because they want more certainty. Some counties may refuse to do a recount because of the fear the SOS's discretion will be to refuse the ballots and that must litigated in the short time frame before December 12.

Unfortunately, the judge's decision DOES drag this thing out. I think he's been reading and writing too many novels.

 

[Russ]

<< The Dems will appeal I assume because they want more certainty. >>



They will certainly appeal, but not because they want more certainty.

Russ, NCNE

 

[ride525]

<< They will certainly appeal, but not because they want more certainty. >>



EDIT this whole thing, I've got to read better....

How about this....

Russ, I almost wrote that I agreed with you for the second time in this thread...(what is the world coming to, Ride and Russ agreeing? ) Anyway I rewrote your quote:

They certainly will appeal because they want MORE, certainly.
(More votes) They want more votes, one way to possibly get them is to have manual recounts and have less computer rejected votes. And asking for the recounts in heavily Democrat areas.....

 

[chess9]

Russ:

Funny, but not true.

 

[Tiger]

I suspect that the Fla. Sec. of state will accept the returns from Volusia county's manual recount because it's basically finished except for some bureacratic paperwork. She'll also probably accept Dade county's partial manual recount because it was under way before 5:00pm. She probably won't accept Palm Beach county's full manual recount because they won't even get started before 5:00pm, she probably would accept the partial manual recount that PB has done.

 

[AndrewR]

<< If she arbitrarily refuses to accept late ballots, then she has abused her discretion. >>


Yes, but that discretion would probably include the ability to throw out ballots that have been counted using subjective criteria with a very fallible manual recount. I'm sure they can come up with a reason to discard the amended amounts if they want to.

The story continues!

 

[jobert]

>>If she arbitrarily refuses to accept late ballots, then she has abused her discretion.<<

arbitrarily? arbitrarily??

Tell us, Chess,
how would she go about making a decision
without being accused of being arbitrary?

Do you know what that word means?

 

[fdiskboy]

Is that like Knight of the Society for Creative Anachronism?

 

[chess9]

Ultimately, the Florida Supreme Court will decide whether her discretion was properly exercised or was arbitrary, I would assume. Since no standards exist, the FSC will have to make some.

I think you'll find very few ballots that were credited to either candidate that are disallowed by the courts. Most of those complaints are bullsh*t.

On a humorous note, my brother-in-law a died in the wool Libertarian who is loving this mess, commented to me a few minutes ago that Florida is making out like a bandit because the campaigns will spend at least 50 million on all this with lawyer's fees, hotel rooms, meals, etc. The country may think we're a bunch of rubes, but we'll get the last laugh, or last buck, as it were.

 

[chess9]

Jobert:

Being arbitrary means disallowing the votes of all those dead people who voted in Dade County.

 

[ride525]

Here is a couple of links that give some background on Florida's Secretary of State:

Washington Post Article on Florida Secretary of State

CNN article on Florida Secretary of State

Enjoy !

 

[HoopDogg]

=)
up here in Canada
just voted for the municipal election, mayor and that kinda thing. Everyone at the polls is joking about you americans. =) I do it in good nature, and try not to be racist. Hopefully its over soon though!!

 

[chess9]

Ride:

Yeah, but OUR crooks are on the Florida Supreme Court.

 

[Michael]

chess9 - I think that the SoS will be fine in rejecting results that miss the deadline:

http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=arbitrary

ar·bi·trar·y (&auml;rb-trr)
adj.

1) Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle: stopped at the first motel we passed, an arbitrary choice; arbitrary division of the group into halves.
2) Based on or subject to individual judgment or preference: The diet imposes overall calorie limits, but daily menus are arbitrary.
3) Established by a court or judge rather than by a specific law or statute: an arbitrary penalty.
4) Not limited by law; despotic: the arbitrary rule of a dictator.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English arbitrarie, from Latin arbitrrius, from arbiter, arbitr- arbiter.]

The SoS has stated two important things. The first is that she does not believe the recounts are warranted under Florida law. They are an option, but they are not required. Further to this, she feels that they are only an option where the machine count is shown to be very inaccurate. The second is that she feels the statute requires her to enforce the 5 PM deadline.

I agree that a county getting results in to her before the absentee votes are counted would have a slight chance. Anything after that, after the results are certified and publically declared, will be very suspect. If she announces certified results at 5 PM today, any victory Gore wins will be as a direct result of a court case overruling the duly appointed body who certified the results.

MIchael