Flip flop? This all they have? *Poll*

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Mockery

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Yeh, well, Mockery, one group is casting spells and illusions, slashing govt income while radically raising expenditures- effectively looting the system.

Verses the other group effectively looting it's people....?

Given my choice, I'll take the other guys. They're not trying to force fiscal collapse somewhere down the road, which is surely where current policy will lead us. Not to mention the concommitant concentration of wealth and power achieved in the process...

Yep?one is enforcing ?fiscal collapse?? the other is promoting 'economic incentive collapse.'

Again, pick your poison?.

1) Bush is Looting the People, he's just done it in such a way as to force a future President to do it.

2) "Economic Incentice Collapse", that's quite a mouth full of mumbo-jumbo. If there was any incentive from cutting Taxes, it's already been played out. The Economy needs some kind of Political Stability and an end to the Quasi-War(s) started by Bush. As much as 1/3 of the current Price of Oil is due to the threat to the flow of Supply and it pretty much negates any alleged benefit of the Tax Cut. Whether intentional or not, the Bush Tax Cuts ae flowing right into the Oil Cos coffers giving little benefit to the Economy(US).

 

[dnuggett]

Wow.... 75% of you don't realize Kerry is going to lose?

 

[Mockery]

Originally posted by: sandorski
1) Bush is Looting the People, he's just done it in such a way as to force a future President to do it.

Yeah?kind like Arnold is being forced to do? Lol

As we can see, some politicians need to revolve around this ideology a lot more than others do.

2) "Economic Incentice Collapse", that's quite a mouth full of mumbo-jumbo. If there was any incentive from cutting Taxes, it's already been played out.

Oh, I?m sure you are right. People who work for a living are biting at the bit to pay increased taxes again. Really, just ask them?.

The Economy needs some kind of Political Stability and an end to the Quasi-War(s) started by Bush.

You honestly think that is going to change under new leadership? The military commissions have something else to say about this I?m sure.

If they can talk Bill (peace man) Clinton into bombing five to six different nations, I seriously doubt this is going to stop under new leadership. To further emphasize this concept, who was the last President who didn?t deploy our military men to a foreign land to be killed?

As much as 1/3 of the current Price of Oil is due to the threat to the flow of Supply and it pretty much negates any alleged benefit of the Tax Cut. Whether intentional or not, the Bush Tax Cuts ae flowing right into the Oil Cos coffers giving little benefit to the Economy(US).

Oil prices and tax cuts?.sorry?I missed this correlation here. If you could, I would appreciate it if you could run it by me one more time. In ubber lay if you could.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Mockery

Originally posted by: sandorski
1) Bush is Looting the People, he's just done it in such a way as to force a future President to do it.

Yeah?kind like Arnold is being forced to do? Lol

As we can see, some politicians need to revolve around this ideology a lot more than others do.

2) "Economic Incentice Collapse", that's quite a mouth full of mumbo-jumbo. If there was any incentive from cutting Taxes, it's already been played out.

Oh, I?m sure you are right. People who work for a living are biting at the bit to pay increased taxes again. Really, just ask them?.

The Economy needs some kind of Political Stability and an end to the Quasi-War(s) started by Bush.

You honestly think that is going to change under new leadership? The military commissions have something else to say about this I?m sure.

If they can talk Bill (peace man) Clinton into bombing five to six different nations, I seriously doubt this is going to stop under new leadership. To further emphasize this concept, who was the last President who didn?t deploy our military men to a foreign land to be killed?

As much as 1/3 of the current Price of Oil is due to the threat to the flow of Supply and it pretty much negates any alleged benefit of the Tax Cut. Whether intentional or not, the Bush Tax Cuts ae flowing right into the Oil Cos coffers giving little benefit to the Economy(US).

Oil prices and tax cuts?.sorry?I missed this correlation here. If you could, I would appreciate it if you could run it by me one more time. In ubber lay if you could.

Sure, scroll up, reread my previous post.

 

[phantom309]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
There is so little substance to the present GOP that all they have
to use against their opponents - any opponents, is childish mockery.
Grade school playground taunting type stuff, they are not able to grow up.

The weak minded that follow their Conservative Radio & TV presentation
are unable to think for themselves, and have to be told waht to do.

They identify with Bush because he is as dumb of a lout as they are - common denominator.
GOP has become the party of the ignorant, unable to recognize or even admit mistakes.
That's why they continue to support this buffon, he represents their own arrogant stupidity.

I've always thought that about the dittohead types. It's like they got to be about 14, and after that life was just one junior high school after another.

 

[Train]

It seems to me the Dems are self defeating on this issue. Yes, we all kow the flip-flopper image has been stuck on Kerry and has hurt him. But it wouldn't be such a big deal if the Dems themselves keep bringing it up, kinda like the guy in gradeschool who got picked on the most was the one who got mad about it. The person who didnt care got left alone.

Then theres the valiant effort of some dems to try and reverse the name calling, sort of the "I know you are but what am I?" tactic. This makes it even worse. And just forces them deeper into the downward spiral. How many times have we seen threads like "OMG Bush flip flopped on this issue!!" or "omg Cheney changed his mind! wtf!?!" Trying to pin the same fault on the opposition is often taken as an admission of it. aka, "sinking to thier level" of the people you are complaining about. If the Kerry-flip flop image didnt carry any weight, you wouldnt be trying so hard to attach it to the opposition.

Case in point, its seems the majority of threads started here with a "flip-flop" variation in the subject line are started by Kerry supporters.

 

[Jhhnn]

Somehow, mockery, I think you've missed or have chosen to ignore the illusion cast by huge deficits and explosive debt loads. Debt maintenance already exceeds $300B/yr, our third largest non-SS expenditure behind the military and all of HHS... This at a time of record low interest rates and looming financial obligations wrt SS in the 10-30 yr timeframe... and that's simply repaying money borrowed from the SS trust, paid in by Boomers over the last 20 years... Bush fiscal policy invites, no, demands, collapse somewhere down the road, a la Argentina or Brazil.

Besides that, we have some of the lowest income tax rates in the developed world, particularly for those fortunate few at the very top. Sure, taxes can become a disincentive, but we're obviously far from that point.

And I'll issue my usual challenge- show me the outlines of a balanced budget that doesn't raise taxes, something that won't drive the authors straight out of office, and we can talk, OK? One third of all non-SS expenditures are made on borrowed money, last time I checked, and that was pre-Iraq, and pre- senior drug benefit boondoggle... one of the slickest bits of corporate welfare ever.

And I'll even go halfway- cut the deficit by 50% from reduced expenditures, make up the difference with tax increases on those who can afford them the most, and it still calls for some serious sacrifice and reordering of priorities.

This is reality- all Bush offers is the illusion of a good time, like giving your credit cards and pin#'s to a gaggle of crack whores, along with financial power of attorney. It'll feel good for awhile... real good...

For all of the talk of Kerry being a flip-flopper, at least he's not a charlatan, a complete con artist, a snake oil vendor...

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Train
It seems to me the Dems are self defeating on this issue. Yes, we all kow the flip-flopper image has been stuck on Kerry and has hurt him. But it wouldn't be such a big deal if the Dems themselves keep bringing it up, kinda like the guy in gradeschool who got picked on the most was the one who got mad about it. The person who didnt care got left alone.

Then theres the valiant effort of some dems to try and reverse the name calling, sort of the "I know you are but what am I?" tactic. This makes it even worse. And just forces them deeper into the downward spiral. How many times have we seen threads like "OMG Bush flip flopped on this issue!!" or "omg Cheney changed his mind! wtf!?!" Trying to pin the same fault on the opposition is often taken as an admission of it. aka, "sinking to thier level" of the people you are complaining about. If the Kerry-flip flop image didnt carry any weight, you wouldnt be trying so hard to attach it to the opposition.

Case in point, its seems the majority of threads started here with a "flip-flop" variation in the subject line are started by Kerry supporters.

So you are saying some Democrats crashed the Rep Convention and started the "flipflop" chant?

If this board was the only place "flipflop" was ever mentioned, you may have had a point. There's a whole other World outside of this Forum though and you'd be surprised at who is talking about "flipflop".

 

[Mockery]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Somehow, mockery, I think you've missed or have chosen to ignore the illusion cast by huge deficits and explosive debt loads. Debt maintenance already exceeds $300B/yr, our third largest non-SS expenditure behind the military and all of HHS... This at a time of record low interest rates and looming financial obligations wrt SS in the 10-30 yr timeframe... and that's simply repaying money borrowed from the SS trust, paid in by Boomers over the last 20 years... Bush fiscal policy invites, no, demands, collapse somewhere down the road, a la Argentina or Brazil.

Besides that, we have some of the lowest income tax rates in the developed world, particularly for those fortunate few at the very top. Sure, taxes can become a disincentive, but we're obviously far from that point.

And I'll issue my usual challenge- show me the outlines of a balanced budget that doesn't raise taxes, something that won't drive the authors straight out of office, and we can talk, OK? One third of all non-SS expenditures are made on borrowed money, last time I checked, and that was pre-Iraq, and pre- senior drug benefit boondoggle... one of the slickest bits of corporate welfare ever.

And I'll even go halfway- cut the deficit by 50% from reduced expenditures, make up the difference with tax increases on those who can afford them the most, and it still calls for some serious sacrifice and reordering of priorities.

This is reality- all Bush offers is the illusion of a good time, like giving your credit cards and pin#'s to a gaggle of crack whores, along with financial power of attorney. It'll feel good for awhile... real good...

For all of the talk of Kerry being a flip-flopper, at least he's not a charlatan, a complete con artist, a snake oil vendor...

While I concede to most of that analysis??.

I?ve often debated whether the national deficit can ever be paid off at this point. I keep hearing people say that we need to balance it out, and I do understand the economic ills associated with inflation etc., but I question if putting too much money towards paying off this debt wouldn?t contribute to economic stagnation down the road.

In theory, of course this isn?t exactly accurate; the national debt doesn?t ever have to be paid off in full for us to continue on our current economic path. Though, I tend to agree with you that it would be nice to see an administration that didn?t intentionally push the threshold of this premise.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Train
But it wouldn't be such a big deal if the Dems themselves keep bringing it up

The reason it's brought up now is because it's such a joke. Everyone with half a brain knows that all politicians mix messages and that Bush is a horrible flip-flopper. It's too much fun to call out the repugs on their flip-flopping.

It's kind of like the kid in school who makes fun of other kids for crying and then the bully bawls and EVERYONE laughs.

FLip flop is a perfect symbol for the idiotic non-arguments the repugs rely on.