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Flaws on Oxide

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Paul98 said:
Turning off motion blur on my computer dropped batch count by a factor of 3 to 6 and increased the FPS by a lot. I tried turning it on and off with the demo paused. One time I was around 23k batches with motion blur off and 120k with motion blur on. this is while paused so the numbers didn't change as I flicked between motion blur on and off.

With high batch count my CPU usage for this demo was around 24%, and GPU usage around 20%. With low batch count my CPU usage was around 70%, and GPU usage 99%.
Click to expand...

can you post that configuration?
 
Enigmoid said:
Except "300% increase" comparison points have no meaning. You could get that on oxide with DX with optimization.
Click to expand...

Just wondering why you stick to the arbitrary number "300", surely, had it been directx optimized it could easily be 700% right? Or are you just making up numbers.
 
Paul98 said:
Seems a lot of complaints could be fixed by more LOD distances, and better ship models and textures. That has nothing to do with the engine, just what the artists created for the demo.
Click to expand...

LOD is breaking this engine and a pointless exercise.

geforce-gtx-680-tessmark-opengl-tessellation.jpg


About as relevant.
 
cytg111 said:
Just wondering why you stick to the arbitrary number "300", surely, had it been directx optimized it could easily be 700% right? Or are you just making up numbers.
Click to expand...

I mentioned in the OP and other have as well that oxide is using only a couple threads (looks in some cases to be only 1). Oxide is disabling turbo on my laptop (which raises a huge number of questions as to why when prime runs just fine at max turbo). 300% sounds right given that.

LOD is broken and objects aren't properly occluded from the scene.
 
Enigmoid said:
LOD is breaking this engine and a pointless exercise.

About as relevant.
Click to expand...

So you don't want to just reduce the LOD you want to not render the objects if they are a certain distance away? Otherwise you still have a huge batch count and are massively CPU bound.
 
it's not the best looking demo, that's for sure
seriously I've seen Winamp Visualisations looking better than that

I suppose the only way to appreciate is to know the tech behind,
but that defeats the whole purpose of Demo as in, you know...Tech DEMONSTRATION,
as opposed to reading and appreciating a good (programming) book.
 
Paul98 said:
So you don't want to just reduce the LOD you want to not render the objects if they are a certain distance away? Otherwise you still have a huge batch count and are massively CPU bound.
Click to expand...

Look at my OP. Far objects appear as identically indistinguishable dots yet it appears that the CPU needs to make a ton of draw calls which the gpu just mushes through and produces a dot (obviously not held back by the gpu).
 
Enigmoid said:
Look at my OP. Far objects appear as identically indistinguishable dots yet it appears that the CPU needs to make a ton of draw calls which the gpu just mushes through and produces a dot (obviously not held back by the gpu).
Click to expand...

I did look at your first post, it just looks like you don't know what you are talking about.
 
f1sherman said:
it's not the best looking demo, that's for sure
seriously I've seen Winamp Visualisations looking better than that

I suppose the only way to appreciate is to know the tech behind,
but that defeats the whole purpose of Demo as in, you know...Tech DEMONSTRATION,
as opposed to reading and appreciating a good (programming) book.
Click to expand...

And i can assure you, when you go watch Gravity in the cinema, every unit on the screen dont have its own AI and is not customizable of you as a viewer - but you can try, and btw its not Sandra Bullock i mean 🙂
 
Enigmoid said:
Look at my OP. Far objects appear as identically indistinguishable dots yet it appears that the CPU needs to make a ton of draw calls which the gpu just mushes through and produces a dot (obviously not held back by the gpu).
Click to expand...

I would suggest you look at the batch count on a paused frame and turn Temporal AA(motion blur) on and off. You will see why frame rates drop so much, it's not the LOD
 
krumme said:
And i can assure you, when you go watch Gravity in the cinema, every unit on the screen dont have its own AI and is not customizable of you as a viewer - but you can try, and btw its not Sandra Bullock i mean 🙂
Click to expand...

you really think there is 5k objects with its own AI on-screen?
man...there is no 5k unique dots there; even if we include little pew-pew lasers, debris and whatnot

I mean wth... are they calculating gravitational field effect on lasers?
Here let me do it for them real quick right now: It's > ZERO, but < 1 pixel, so it's ZERO lol
 
f1sherman said:
you really think there is 5k objects with its own AI on-screen?
man...there is no 5k unique dots there; even if we include little pew-pew lasers, debris and whatnot

I mean wth... are they calculating gravitational field effect on lasers?
Here let me do it for them real quick right now: It's > ZERO, but < 1 pixel, so it's ZERO lol
Click to expand...

I don't know about gravity but for the rest they are, and they will be calculating AI for everything not just what is on screen.
 
Paul98 said:
I would suggest you look at the batch count on a paused frame and turn Temporal AA(motion blur) on and off. You will see why frame rates drop so much, it's not the LOD
Click to expand...

Paul98 said:
I did look at your first post, it just looks like you don't know what you are talking about.
Click to expand...

If they are doing motion blur on a bunch of dots as in the first two pictures then its an lod issue as well.
 
Enigmoid said:
If they are doing motion blur on a bunch of dots as in the first two pictures then its an lod issue as well.
Click to expand...

no it isn't, the LOD is fine it's the batch count that is causing the problem. It's rendering that LOD in a plenty short time, it's the large batch count causing the problem. Decreasing the LOD of the object won't change that.

Or I guess I should say LOD doesn't matter in a situation like that, you can't tell if LOD is going to be a problem because it is so CPU.
 
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Ok, so. I don;t know if it's cause I was running it at 8fps, but that motion blur doesn't look very good and and I can't see anything on screen.

===========================================================
Oxide Games
Star Swarm Benchmark - ©2013
C:\Users\John\Documents\Star Swarm\Benchmark_14_01_31_1904.txt
Version 0.95
01/31/2014 19:04
===========================================================

== Hardware Configuration =================================
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660
CPU: GenuineIntel
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz
Physical Cores: 4
Logical Cores: 8
Physical Memory: 17117757440
Allocatable Memory: 140737488224256
===========================================================


== Configuration ==========================================
API: DirectX
Scenario: ScenarioAttract.csv
User Input: Disabled
Resolution: 1920x1080
Fullscreen: True
GameCore Update: 16.6 ms
Bloom Quality: High
PointLight Quality: High
ToneCurve Quality: High
Glare Overdraw: 16
Shading Samples: 64
Shade Quality: Mid
Motion Blur Frame Time: 16
Motion Blur InterFrame Time: 2
Detailed Frame Info: Off
===========================================================


== Results ================================================
Test Duration: 120 Seconds
Total Frames: 2318

Average FPS: 19.32
Average Unit Count: 3704
Maximum Unit Count: 5424
Average Batches/MS: 864.42
Maximum Batches/MS: 2186.00
Average Batch Count: 49292
Maximum Batch Count: 193067
===========================================================
 
I like this "Temporal AA". I think it looks cool, even though it's overdone. The effect is like an afterimage, not like regular blurring which is just smudging. It looks like they're trying to simulate long exposure settings on cameras.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-exposure_photography

That performance hit is absolutely bananas though and def not worth it, they should really try to optimize it, if it's possible. I think it would look better at high frame rates.... which is ironic considering how bad a performance hit it causes, lmao.
 
Last edited:
Paul98 said:
I don't know about gravity but for the rest they are, and they will be calculating AI for everything not just what is on screen.
Click to expand...

To add to that every object has it's own independant "physics, AI, pathfinding, and threat assessment". That is down to the individual turrets on the capital ships.
 
Paul98 said:
no it isn't, the LOD is fine it's the batch count that is causing the problem. It's rendering that LOD in a plenty short time, it's the large batch count causing the problem. Decreasing the LOD of the object won't change that.

Or I guess I should say LOD doesn't matter in a situation like that, you can't tell if LOD is going to be a problem because it is so CPU.
Click to expand...

Why do you need so many draw calls when all you see is a dot (in the case of RTS)?
 
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