Flag burning -- yes or no?

[AndrewR]

This topic was brought up (again?) in another thread, and I wanted to elicit some comments.

Personally, I am in favor of protecting the flag. From the importance and honor of the color bearers on the Civil War battlefields to the raising of the flag on Mt. Suribachi, the flag as a physical object and as an idea represents too much to me to be desecrated by citizens in the same manner as our enemies. Failing that, eliminate tort liability for those who attack flag burners -- I could accept that compromise.

I am in favor of free speech, but I do place special emphasis on the flag, over and above all other symbols of this country. Having gone to a military school and subsequently serving in the military, I cannot tolerate such an insult.

I'm interested to find out what others with military connections, past or present, think about this.

 

[Viper GTS]

No military connections, but I despise flag burning.

Granted, the physical flag itself has no intrinsic value. It's just cloth & die. But it's what it stands for that you're burning... The freedom, bloodshed, & American values. I can't tolerate that. My basic view is this: If you don't like this country, leave. There are plenty of us here who DO like it, & who would die defending it against the likes of you.

Viper GTS

 

[403Forbidden]

When I see or read an expression that offends me,
I turn away and concentrate on something else.

 

[Handle]

I know you're referring to the United States, but I remember reading an article about Canada and what happens here.

An American came to Canada protesting something, and went to Ottawa to burn a Canadian flag. He didn't know how so he asked an RCMP officer (that's our national police force) how to burn a flag safely. The officer was obligated, in the name of safety, to assist an American on Canadian soil in burning the Canadian flag. To me, that is excessive.

 

[rahvin]

I don't like it, but it's freedom of expression. Freedom has a price...

 

[extra]

i basically second what rahvin said...flag burning makes me sick in a way....however, we should be able to do it if we want to...it's free speach, free expression, and it's not trampling on anyone elses rights.

 

[Raspewtin]

I used to hate it, but now I could care less. The more you despise it, the more power you give to those who do it. People only burn flags IMO b/c other people find it vile and horrendous. Don't give flag burners the attention, and they'll go away. If you make it illegal, they see themselves as champions of freedom, and flag burning will never die. The best way to take away their power is to let them do it and ignore them.

 

[extra]

>>"The best way to take away their power is to let them do it and ignore them."

That comment is RIGHT ON target...and it applies to a lot more than flag burning, that's for sure.

 

[Russ]

I've thought very long and very hard on the issue of The Flag. Emotionally, every ounce of me would like to see great harm come to anyone who desecrates it in any way. I still get goose bumps when I hear the National Anthem. I still salute Old Glory when I see it in a parade.

But, I've come to the conclusion that, while they probably also would have personally pulverized anyone who did it, our Founding Fathers would not want this written in to the Constitution.

I believe that they would argue that this is a form of protest against the government. I believe that during those perilous times that gave birth to this great country, that this might be precisely the type of rebellious act in which they would have engaged.

Their intent to guard our rights to rise up against the government was made very clear before, during, and after the drafting of the Constitution. This is the crux of the First and Second Amendments.

I also believe that it is hypocritical for we Conservatives to argue that the Second Amendment exists, in large part, as our protection against our own government and yet to argue that any form of peaceful protest against that government should be banned.

Russ, NCNE

 

[Ronstang]

I have no military connections but I agree with you wholeheartedly AndrewR. The flag represents different things to different people but far too many Americans have died so you and I can live under Old Glory for us to allow anyone to publicly deface the flag. There should definitely be a law passed to protect the flag. I don't give a god#$%% about the freedom of speech argument here.

I am so tired of everyone bashing and insulting the U.S. but running to us in time of need. If you burn the flag on U.S. soil then get the fsck out of my country and don't come back. If you burn it off U.S. soil then don't ever come here and fsck you if you need help of anykind.

If someone dislikes what the flag stands for then why the hell are they here???? LEAVE, LEAVE NOW, AND LEAVE FAST, AND DON'T LET FREEDOM HIT YOU IN THE ASS!!!! The flag symbolized freedom but that does not give anyone the freedom to publicly disgrace the flag in my opinion.

No matter how much I disliked a country I would never burn their flag. It shows a total lack of class and intelligence, since anyone with any brains knows this kind of protesting never results in the goals trying to be achieved.

LEAVE THE FLAG ALONE!!! OR LEAVE MY COUNTRY!!!

 

[Comp10]

But you need to realize that the people who died defending our country did so to protect our freedom, not a piece of cloth. By preventing people from expressing themselves I believe that we are doing more harm to the memory of our fallen soldiers than good. If at some point in time our countries government became corupt and still used the flag as its symbol, would you still protest the burning of it? In the minds of some of the people who burn flags this is what has happened. So I respect the right of people to protest what they believe to be a corrupt government, even if I dont totaly agree with them. Our soldiers died in defense of our countries citizens, not the government for which the flag has largely become to stand for.

 

[Tripleshot]

Russ

Fine.Other laws prevail.Burn or desecrate the flag and that is inticing a riot.Go directly to jail,(or better yet,let the people like me beat the snot out of ya!)
Simple solution to a not too very complex issue.

 

[kduncan5]

Interesting question. I was brought up to respect the flag and the hard won freedom that it represents. So in that regard, I get extremely upset when I hear about anyone burning the American Flag on American, or anyone's soil for that matter. When it happens on our soil I feel like the individuals responsible for the burning should be required to leave this country immediately, since they obviously have no desire to respect the country they live in. When it happens in other countries, I view it as an insult to America, and the freedom that America represents.

Freedom of Expression has its place, but burning the American Flag is a crime against America. -kd5-

 

[CyberSax]

Many people don't understand what flag burning is. Flag burning means that you're declaring a fierce hostility towards the people of a nation. That's why the Iraqis and Libyans burn American flags in there streets. In no other country in the world are there people dumb enough to burn the flag of their own nation. Ted Kennedy and his drunken posse of Democrats should just step out of the way, and allow a constitutional amendment against flag burning to be passed.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

No.

If you don't like the U.S. then leave.

 

[Redwingsguy]

<q>Flag burning means that you're declaring a fierce hostility towards the people of a nation. </q>

it only means that if you want it to, it doesnt automatically mean fierce hostility its just that peopel take it as that, I say let them burn it as long as it was made in my country I'm the one with the profits!

 

[Blayze]

Flag burning?

Just say NO!

 

[Comp10]

<< Flag burning means that you're declaring a fierce hostility towards the people of a nation >>



Burning the flag is not always a fierce hostility towards our citizens, but rather our government. By making a ban against burning the flag you are in essance saying that you cannot show any hostility towards our government, which of course goes against everything our Republic presently stands for.

 

[Ornery]

Sorry, no military connections.

I don't believe there should be an amendment to the Constitution to ban flag burning. I part company with a large portion of the GOP there.

And as Raspewtin said, pay the burners no attention.

Veterans played a pivotal role in defeating this amendment.

 

[glenn1]

My take on the issue is simple... anyone has the right to burn a flag if they so desire. I am a military vet, and your &quot;right&quot; as such to do whatever you choose should not be usurped. So, should the flag itself be Constitutionally protected? I don't think so. The flag, although a potent symbol of the nation, is still an inanimate object, and as such is not deserving of having 'rights' or protection - only living things should enjoy protections (i.e. animal cruelty laws), and only people have rights (to have rights, you have to be able to ASSERT those rights... a flag, or any inanimate object, can't do that).

What might be suitable however, is taking the exact opposite tack. The flag is not a constitutionally protected object, and can be burned at will, by anyone who wishes to do so. HOWEVER, if this is an action taken by an American citizen, they immediately forfeit all rights as a citizen by doing so, as they have effectively renounced their country in burning the flag. We wouldn't deport them or anything, they would simply forfeit their citizenship rights (of course, we could always offer them a one-way ticket to any other country they would prefer to be living in, should they choose to leave). Should they wish to regain them, they would need to go through the same naturalization process immigrants go through. Perhaps that would help teach them the value and honor of citizenship in this great country.

And before any nitpickers come out, i'm not talking about a proper retirement/disposal of an old and unserviceable flag, the last step of the process being burning. I'm talking about a flag burning as a political statement.

 

[Comp10]

<< ...they would need to go through the same naturalization process immigrants go through. Perhaps that would help teach them the value and honor of citizenship in this great country. >>



But the problem remains that our great country was founded and flourish's on people with opposing views. Our country has thrived because the government has not tried to silence the voices and rights of peolple who believe our country should change. People who burn the flag clearly think our country needs changing, so if they choose to express themselves by burning the flag than that should be their right. If the people of our country lost citizenship every time they disagreed with the majority of the people, our country would have likely never lasted past its infancy and would be not be the great country it is today.

 

[BoberFett]

It must be defended by the 1st Amendment.

LP Take on flag burning

 

[Michael]

As a Canadian (now living in the US), I must admit that I just don't get the issue of flag-burning. Protesting against your government and its policies is one of the basic freedoms that citizens of free countries have.

It must be my upbringing, but I just don't find the flag &quot;sacred&quot; and don't understand why the highest law in the land has to be modified to specifically protect it.

Michael

 

[glenn1]

&quot;But the problem remains that our great country was founded and flourish's on people with opposing views. Our country has thrived because the government has not tried to silence the voices and rights of peolple who believe our country should change. People who burn the flag clearly think our country needs changing, so if they choose to express themselves by burning the flag than that should be their right. If the people of our country lost citizenship every time they disagreed with the majority of the people, our country would have likely never lasted past its infancy and would be not be the great country it is today.&quot;

I'm not talking about people having honest disagreement with the policies or positions of our government. That's what the First Amendment is for. It comes down to what concrete actions, not speech, are constitutionally protected. I think we would all agree that an assassination attempt on a government official, even if intended to bring about a change in the country or its government's policies, would not be an act protected by the constitution. Where do you draw the line of what acts are constitutionally protected, and which are not? Whether or not burning a flag should be is a reasonable question to ask, i believe. I have expressed my opinion. You may disagree. That's how the country works.

 

[Comp10]

<< Where do you draw the line of what acts are constitutionally protected, and which are not? >>



The answer to that question is simple, you draw the line at where the free speech will physicaly harm someone. For example you cannot yell fire in a crowded theatre. However burning a flag does not harm anyone (unless it starts a larger fire ), so it should be protected under the first amendment.