[fixed] Dragon Age 2 Low Performance on Nvidia Cards [fixed]

[Seero]

Okay, first, there is a problem with the game on dx11 which lead to bad performance on Nvidia card. It is later resolved with patch 1.01 + new nvidia driver. Unfortunately, it doesn't work on demo
http://social.bioware.com/%25252520...1-is-not-supported-in-the-demo-6151799-1.html

Second, DA2 does use PhysX. It comes with the game and a system file physxcooking.dll. Some missed the system file and can't play.
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/294/index/6150178/3

Third, as to performance, it is more in line.
http://www.techspot.com/review/374-dragon-age-2-performance-test/page4.html

Unfortunately, it seems the patch doesn't fix the problem, but to work around it, and therefore requires a driver patch to work.

 

[GaiaHunter]

I had no idea DAO had Physx in it.

I played DAO with a GTX460, did nothing to change any settings regarding Physx.

So does this mean I experienced Physx in the game without realizing it, or do I need to enable something somewhere in order for Physx to be a factor in the game?

(regardless, whether I was using Physx or not I thought the graphics of DAO were pretty darn awesome compared to Baldur's Gate and NWN)

It is software physX so no hardware settings.

Second, DA2 does use PhysX. It comes with the game and a system file physxcooking.dll. Some missed the system file and can't play.
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/294/index/6150178/3

It must be integrated differently since opposed to Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 2 it doesn't have a separate physX installer and when I installed a fresh windows (the games partition was intact) Dragon Age 2 played fine but DAO and ME2 shouted at me that physX couldn't initialize and it required me to go grab my ME2 copy and run the individual physX installer.

 

[qliveur]

It's been already fixed via the 267.59 driver as i mentioned before. Double the performance, back to beating ATi.

I don't know whether or not NVIDIA's cards are beating AMD's with this driver, nor do I care, but I tried this fix yesterday and it worked. :thumbsup:

This is definitely driver related.

 

[Grooveriding]

I don't know whether or not NVIDIA's cards are beating AMD's with this driver, nor do I care, but I tried this fix yesterday and it worked. :thumbsup:

This is definitely driver related.

Not really. SLI still performs terribly. I am getting 35fps on my system, so there are still issues with nvidia and DA2.

 

[Seero]

Not really. SLI still performs terribly. I am getting 35fps on my system, so there are still issues with nvidia and DA2.

Crossfire don't work well either.

 

[Grooveriding]

Crossfire don't work well either.

Works a heck of a lot better than SLI does.

 

[Seero]

Works a heck of a lot better than SLI does.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/58/index/5307457/1#6470102
AMD user with crossfire setup either busy testing which version of driver obtain least micro-shutter, or simply turn off Xfire. Grass on the other side is always greener.

 

[Grooveriding]

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/58/index/5307457/1#6470102
AMD user with crossfire setup either busy testing which version of driver obtain least micro-shutter, or simply turn off Xfire. Grass on the other side is always greener.

That is indicative of nothing beyond one user's issue.

Fact remains Crossfire scales incredibly compared to sli in this game, along with AMD performing better, period.

 

[Seero]

That is indicative of nothing beyond one user's issue.

Fact remains Crossfire scales incredibly compared to sli in this game, along with AMD performing better, period.

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=262&threadid=147915

 

[SHAQ]

That is indicative of nothing beyond one user's issue.

Fact remains Crossfire scales incredibly compared to sli in this game, along with AMD performing better, period.

I see 100% scaling on the minimum and more than that on the average for 580 SLI on the above pic. The fact that it runs at half the speed of the 6990 is the problem.

 

[bryanW1995]

It is software physX so no hardware settings.




It must be integrated differently since opposed to Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 2 it doesn't have a separate physX installer and when I installed a fresh windows (the games partition was intact) Dragon Age 2 played fine but DAO and ME2 shouted at me that physX couldn't initialize and it required me to go grab my ME2 copy and run the individual physX installer.

Yeah, I remember when DAO came out a lot of people were linking it as an "upcoming AAA physx title". However, just before launch it was mentioned that they were using software physx. Apparently NV wasn't willing to offer bioware enough $$ to deliberate cripple their in-game physics effects.

 

[Grooveriding]

Actually I don't think Dragon Age 2 uses physX at all.

By chance I was doing a clean install of windows and while Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 2 refused to launch due to lack of physX drivers installed, Dragon Age 2 on the other hand had no trouble starting.

So I checked the Dragon Age 2 DVD and there is no physX driver installer. Both DAO and ME2 DVDs have the physX installer on the software folder.

I can't find the physx installer on the DA2 disc.

 

[GaiaHunter]

I can't find the physx installer on the DA2 disc.

Me neither.

If it is indeed used (and people seemed to have problems with phisX with the demo, so unless the demo used and the retail doesn't) it is integrated in some other way.

 

[Idontcare]

Yeah, I remember when DAO came out a lot of people were linking it as an "upcoming AAA physx title". However, just before launch it was mentioned that they were using software physx. Apparently NV wasn't willing to offer bioware enough $$ to deliberate cripple their in-game physics effects.

I'll freely admit my own ignorance on the topic of "software physx" and why the distinction merits being mentioned...provided the thread's OP does not view it as an unacceptable thread-derail could one of my fellow colleagues either give me the tl;dr suitable version of why this matters or link me to the equivalent in a review?

 

[tviceman]

Yeah, I remember when DAO came out a lot of people were linking it as an "upcoming AAA physx title". However, just before launch it was mentioned that they were using software physx. Apparently NV wasn't willing to offer bioware enough $$ to deliberate cripple their in-game physics effects.

By saying deliberate cripple, you mean to add in extra effects (more than the console version) that would run better on the GPU vs. CPU that otherwise would have never been added in at all.

 

[Seero]

I can't find the physx installer on the DA2 disc.

I believe the physX installer is no longer necessary for games featuring physX, instead, there are some files that will come with the game, there are:
* cudart32_30_9

* nxcharacter

* physxcooking

* physxcore

* physxloader

Since the core engine of DA uses PhysX, it make sense that DA2 also requires physX to run, and it became part of the game and therefore doesn't need a separate installer.

For Nvidia user, it should easy to check and see the game uses physx or not. Simply open Nvidia CP and select "set physx configuration" and select "3d setting" on the menu bar then select "show physx visual indicator". It should show you whether physx is running on cpu/gpu or not.

 

[notty22]

I only have DA2 Demo.
I just enable the physX indicator in NV panel and it
is ON it says PhysX=cpu

In Nv panel I have the setting to use 2nd gtx 460

So the Demo forces the use of cpu phsyX

 

[formulav8]

Edit: It looks like nvidia fixed the performance issues, at least for single cards then? Just sli is giving people problems now?

Apparently NV wasn't willing to offer bioware enough $$ to deliberate cripple their in-game physics effects.

Would not surprise me if true. NVidia has already shown it will do shady things to sell a video card. Even if it means hurting the consumers. Thats one reason I cringe @ nvidia sponsored games. I definitely don't expect them to look out for me.

But at least I have some nvidia cards so I won't have to worry to much about sabotage. I'm probably being to hard on nvidia though

 

[GaiaHunter]

I'll freely admit my own ignorance on the topic of "software physx" and why the distinction merits being mentioned...provided the thread's OP does not view it as an unacceptable thread-derail could one of my fellow colleagues either give me the tl;dr suitable version of why this matters or link me to the equivalent in a review?

Software physX run on the CPU so both AMD and NVIDIA systems get the same details.
Hardware physX only runs on NVIDIA GPUs.

 

[Seero]

Edit: It looks like nvidia fixed the performance issues, at least for single cards then? Just sli is giving people problems now?

Would not surprise me if true. NVidia has already shown it will do shady things to sell a video card. Even if it means hurting the consumers. Thats one reason I cringe @ nvidia sponsored games. I definitely don't expect them to look out for me.

But at least I have some nvidia cards so I won't have to worry to much about sabotage. I'm probably being to hard on nvidia though

I seriously don't get it. When PhysX is use on any other game, it is seen as a tool of sabotage. Well, DA2 is a "Game Evolved" title which uses PhysX, and clearly runs better on AMD gears. How did it ended up being sabotage from Nvidia again?

The whole idea is, TWIMTBP and GE are meant to help developers, not backstabbing rivals. Am I surprise knowing that AMD gears perform slightly better than Nvidia? No, it should, because developers have the resources from AMD on both development and testing. Sabotage? Conspiracy. Without them, both camp must relay on DirectX as no developer will know how to utilize those special functionalities that came with the card. No Eyefinity, no PhysX, no GPU accelation on anything and no games will play better than PC than your 10 years old console box.

The game has performance issues on both camps. Get your facts straight please. Both SLI and crossfire have problems, look at AMD's latest patch note.

Includes fixes where Dragon Age 2 would hang in DirectX11 on ATI Radeon™ HD 5800 Series products.

Is this a direct result of Nvidia's sabotage too? Come on guys, look around other forums, they too have a thread around DA2's performance. Can we keep a thread about performance informational instead of "Nvidia sabotage AMD conspiracy crap?" I mean, forget about the search function, simply look through this thread and see how many times "Nvidia sabotage" are posted? WHERE IS THE BASE? If there is no base than stop making baseless claims as of they are truth coming from some bibbles.

If the goal is indeed "better gaming", then in the name of "better gaming" please focus on the issue and find out its cause. I know there is one person who followed the thread and ended up feeling better because the game performs better. That is my intention. What is yours?

This thread has moved to a direction indicating there are no problem whatoever on AMD gears. If that is the case, then the above quote from AMD's driver patch note won't exists. While Nvidia users have no problem seeking help in this thread, what about AMD users? They are screwed because you guys keep saying there are no problems. Did Nvidia hire you guys to prevent AMD users from getting help too? Or are Nvidia drivers somehow affect AMD drivers too?

OP, prove yourself that you ain't simply spreading hate by putting possible resolution to the OP and remove those outdated slides which really serve no other purpose than hate and prevent AMD users from seeking help.

 

[Idontcare]

Software physX run on the CPU so both AMD and NVIDIA systems get the same details.
Hardware physX only runs on NVIDIA GPUs.

Thanks! Call me a blithering idiot, I had no idea I/we/games could do physx on our x86 CPU's. I thought it only worked on NV GPUs.

But isn't Physx "software" even when done on NV's GPU? I mean they don't actually have dedicated fixed hardware for supporting Physx on the GPU, do they?

Don't let my questions derail the thread though, if the OP doesn't want this discussion here then let's respect that and drop it. I'll go learn me some google and get schooled like its 1999

 

[alcoholbob]

New patch has normalized performance somewhat for Nvidia cards. Performance is still pretty bad for cutting edge hardware in a game that doesn't even look very good.

 

[TerabyteX]

New patch has normalized performance somewhat for Nvidia cards. Performance is still pretty bad for cutting edge hardware in a game that doesn't even look very good.

But the games says version 1.0??

 

[GaiaHunter]

Thanks! Call me a blithering idiot, I had no idea I/we/games could do physx on our x86 CPU's. I thought it only worked on NV GPUs.

But isn't Physx "software" even when done on NV's GPU? I mean they don't actually have dedicated fixed hardware for supporting Physx on the GPU, do they?

Game developers have free (I believe) access to a library of effects and some of those effects can be run on CPUs (and consoles for that matter), just like other physics engines used in several other games.

The advantage for the developers is obvious - they don't have to waste resources on a physics engine.

Some of the effects can be accelerated by NVIDIA GPUs and the Ageia PPU card - this allow a higher degree of complexity to some effects that CPUs wouldn't manage without compromising performance severely (at least in theory).

Technically you are right, both versions are software. It is that one can be GPU accelerated and the other runs on CPU, making it a similar situation to when graphics were either run on the processor (software) or were accelerated by a graphics card (hardware).

PhysX is to my knowledge run on the shaders or CUDA cores if you prefer.

In a pure technical/hardware sense there is no reason (that I'm aware) that would prevent AMD cards from also accelerating physX effects. (Here hoping this statement doesn't draw unwanted flak)

Edit: Very similar posts between from Seero and I.

 

[Seero]

Thanks! Call me a blithering idiot, I had no idea I/we/games could do physx on our x86 CPU's. I thought it only worked on NV GPUs.

But isn't Physx "software" even when done on NV's GPU? I mean they don't actually have dedicated fixed hardware for supporting Physx on the GPU, do they?

Don't let my questions derail the thread though, if the OP doesn't want this discussion here then let's respect that and drop it. I'll go learn me some google and get schooled like its 1999

PhysX is just another physics engine. With Nvidia video card, it can be executed on GPU instead. Ususally GPU don't get completely utilized and PhysX is a good way of using those unused shaders. By offloading PhysX on GPU, CPU are free to do other things, and therefore improve performance. Other physics engine like Havok was once said to be featuring GPU too, called havok FX, but the project was abandoned.

There are no hardware unit for PhysX, but due to the nature of the code, sometimes it is more efficient to be executed in parallel than serial, meaning it favors GPU. It was once said that it is based on outdated instruction set (x87) which are not optimized for CPU, but later it was compiled as newer instruction set(sse) which proves that there are no significant differences. The newer PhysX now cause problems with older motherboard as it does not support SSE instruction set for some reason. This particular problem haunts some DA2 users too.

PhysX itself is a software. When Nvidia video card is present, it runs on GPU. Nvidia call this "PhysX GPU Acceleration". "Hardware Acceleration" is also a name used to refer having video card to work on some graphic related API calls, like Dx calls. Somehow, PhysX on Video card was understood as "Hardware" implementation and became Hardware implemented PhysX. Naturally, that makes physx on CPU "Software implemented PhysX" as some believed that PhysX are ran through a emulator of some sort on CPU.

So correctly speaking, PhysX is PhysX, like C, or VB. It can run on both GPU/CPU. Some PhysX code are designed specifically to run on CPU as there are times where CPU is a better choice.