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First time using weight belt, should it feel like cheating ?

Grooveriding

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
I took a friend at work up on a wager with a decent chunk of change riding on it. He is a lifting fanatic and I am an avid runner. In my case it's squat 150% my bodyweight and bench 100% (I weigh 175lbs) and his is to run a half marathon. First to reach their respective goal wins.

I am a neophyte to strength training. Did some reading etc. and have been doing the stronglifts thing because it's a linear and straight forward program.

I just recently hit 200lbs on the squat and it has been starting to nag my lower back somewhat. So today I started using a weight belt at 205lbs and it felt like I had taken a noticeable amount of weight off. Felt like I was cheating. Is this normal ?
 
Dunno, never used a belt. Squat 445. You shouldn't need one for a loooong time. You're actually doing yourself a disservice by not strengthening your back like you normally would without a belt.
 
TallBill said:
Dunno, never used a belt. Squat 445. You shouldn't need one for a loooong time. You're actually doing yourself a disservice by not strengthening your back like you normally would without a belt.
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This.

Depends on how badly you want to win the bet...

Options
1) Wear belt, you could even get knee wraps AND a squat suit...you would probably hit your 1.5x bw within 6 weeks depending on how you get out of the wraps and the suit

2) Work on your back so you strengthen it, no real need to wear a belt with 100-150kg IMO unless you weigh about 50kg

Back exercises:
back extensions, build up so you can do these weighted
bent over rows

I'll guess your learning over forwards a bit too much at various points in the squats as well if your feeling it in your back. This is fairly typical.

Koing
 
Thanks guys.

I think it's quite likely that I am leaning a bit too far forward at times, because on some reps I feel slightly off-balance and adjust myself.. I've been making a point to be obsessively anal about form, but it gets more difficult to maintain when the weight starts feeling heavy for me.

Just got a bit of that annoying dull pressure type pain in the lower back. Doing the work I do I know the human body and how it hurts/can be hurt. No interest in a herniated disc over the bet so I figured a belt would offer some protection.

Perhaps I was just being overly-cautious. Another thing I didn't enjoy about the belt is that it made breathing through the motion properly feel awkward and more difficult to do. I breathe in deeply at the top, hold it and then keeping my upper body tight - squat, on the way up I slowly let it out and repeat etc. Wearing the belt sort of interfered with that whole thing.

Will see how it goes on Monday without the belt. Man, I want to win this one 😀
 
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Straps and belts should only be used if you absolutely need them for a physical problem...not just to add a little more weight on a lift. They don't allow all the muscles/etc to develop properly.

I have seen dudes get hurt saying "oh I can so lift that" then do it without their 'gear' on and get screwed up.
 
Squats can put a tremendous strain on your lower back, so I definitely suggest using a weight belt when you're doing low rep squats. The only time I would squat without a belt is
if you're doing high reps.
 
monbell5032 said:
Squats can put a tremendous strain on your lower back, so I definitely suggest using a weight belt when you're doing low rep squats. The only time I would squat without a belt is
if you're doing high reps.
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Wrong. They should put a tremendous strain on your musculature, not on the passive structures (like ligamentous, discs) within your back. If you're doing squats correctly, a weight belt can actually teach you bad habits in terms of activating your core musculature sufficiently. It's essentially a sport-specific tool for weightlifting and powerlifting. You, however, do not need them to train heavily and healthily.
 
I'm against any belts, straps, etc.. Then again I'm fairly young and have no medical issues. Ask me again at 45 and the answer might be different.

Also I'm thinking a 13 mile run would probably be easier to accomplish than squatting 265lbs. There would need to be some type of time limit I would think. Someone in fairly decent shape could definitely round themselves into running shape enough to run 13 miles fairly easy. And by fairly easy maybe two months of regular training. A newb lifter seems like it'd take a few months.
I could actually do either one. 🙂 I train cardio and lift weights. It's nothing to ride near a hundred miles on a bicycle and a couple days later be in the weight room doing squats and deadlift. Either way I think it will good for both of you guys. I don't feel any workout program is complete without the other.
 
Straps, belts etc...ive used them all. Not on every lift though. no need to be wearing a belt when doing bench presses at warmup weights. However squatting close to your max, and your back is lacking to where your legs are then i highly recommend using a belt. yes your back wont benefit form the total weight of the lift as it would if you werent wearing one but your back also wont get injured.
 
I don't max out. Period. Personal preference. I will do a 3 rep squat or dead with what I feel is maximum weight I can handle for three reps. As far as doing one rep at maximum capacity.. not a chance. Risk far outweighs the reward.
 
OILFIELDTRASH said:
I'm against any belts, straps, etc.. Then again I'm fairly young and have no medical issues. r.
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Again for me its not about medical issues its about getting the most weight up as possible. To continue on with my previous post i will always use straps when doing extremely heavy deadlifts for reps. Its a certainty that my grip is going to give out before my back is. So i see no reason to limit the progress of my back beause i refuse to use straps and my grip strength isnt there.
 
OILFIELDTRASH said:
I don't max out. Period. Personal preference. I will do a 3 rep squat or dead with what I feel is maximum weight I can handle for three reps. As far as doing one rep at maximum capacity.. not a chance. Risk far outweighs the reward.
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This i fully agree with. But then again depending on your physical condition and health etc the choice is up to you.
 
Best thing I ever did was about 4 years ago I quit using weight belt and knee wraps for squats. Made my whole body stronger.

If your lower back is feeling tweaked, good chance your core needs strengthening and/or your technique needs polishing.

If you are not familiar with KStarr, I highly, highly, highly recommend checking his site out MobilityWOD and do the mobility drills/exercises he shows you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBHzXF-mVjY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzFgLf8CC1Y
 
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Teizo said:
Best thing I ever did was about 4 years ago I quit using weight belt and knee wraps for squats. Made my whole body stronger.

If your lower back is feeling tweaked, good chance your core needs strengthening and/or your technique needs polishing.

If you are not familiar with KStarr, I highly, highly, highly recommend checking his site out MobilityWOD and do the mobility drills/exercises he shows you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBHzXF-mVjY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzFgLf8CC1Y
Click to expand...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCeYOS2tZsg

Kstarr. Is that a belt? And that aint even 350. He does have great flexibility and mobility, his advice is really good on that aspect.
 
Did 210 today without the belt and it felt good. Think you may be right I have taken on a losing bet though. Ever since about 180lbs it has been getting rough adding the 5lbs every time. Think I may hit a wall soon. Oh well, hopefully he does not say he is ready for the run any time soon. He doesn't do cardio period, until now.

Sad part is I cannot even run with the way these squats are busting up my legs. I get in a quick 7 miles every Sunday just to keep my legs loose and breathing trained, but I can't manage any more because of leg soreness due to the squats.
 
Grooveriding said:
Did 210 today without the belt and it felt good. Think you may be right I have taken on a losing bet though. Ever since about 180lbs it has been getting rough adding the 5lbs every time. Think I may hit a wall soon. Oh well, hopefully he does not say he is ready for the run any time soon. He doesn't do cardio period, until now.

Sad part is I cannot even run with the way these squats are busting up my legs. I get in a quick 7 miles every Sunday just to keep my legs loose and breathing trained, but I can't manage any more because of leg soreness due to the squats.
Click to expand...

Leg soreness will fade the more you get use to squatting.

Koing
 
Grooveriding said:
I just recently hit 200lbs on the squat and it has been starting to nag my lower back somewhat. So today I started using a weight belt at 205lbs and it felt like I had taken a noticeable amount of weight off. Felt like I was cheating. Is this normal ?
Click to expand...
When you say "nag my lower back", would you say it is muscular or other?

TBH, and i did 5x5, squatting 5x5 3 times a week is a TON of volume, especially if you are doing assistance work for legs or back. You may be overtraining it in a short period of time. You have to be careful about 5x5...if you are not eating to support that volume and that % load, you can hurt yourself through overtraining.

Belt. I use a belt for anything over about 75% only if my spine is loaded. I like it. Im comfortable in it. Squat and deadlift only for the most part. Shrugs if it is with a barbell. Occasionally for overhead press. General rule of thumb for me is to belt up for anything over 225, but thats just me. If you use a belt, i would go off your % of your 1RM.

People are talking about the belt for your back...my back is strong-ish, and i honestly think that it takes more load off the core while when you do these movments. It makes it easier to maintain tightness throughout, resulting in that feeling you get of 'cheating'.

I squat with a barbell, and kettlebells (beltless of course). Kettlebells will make damn sure your core is not neglected. Pretty much anything you do will work it.

Purists hate them. Powerlifters swear by them. Just do what's comfortable for YOU.
 
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Grooveriding said:
Did 210 today without the belt and it felt good. Think you may be right I have taken on a losing bet though. Ever since about 180lbs it has been getting rough adding the 5lbs every time. Think I may hit a wall soon. Oh well, hopefully he does not say he is ready for the run any time soon. He doesn't do cardio period, until now.

Sad part is I cannot even run with the way these squats are busting up my legs. I get in a quick 7 miles every Sunday just to keep my legs loose and breathing trained, but I can't manage any more because of leg soreness due to the squats.
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1-To continue to add 5lbs a training day, or even a week, you have to eat to support that. You need to be in a large caloric excess to continuously recover and repair/add tissue.

2-You have options when you hit the wall. Change your volume. You may actually benefit more by doing less. Instead of doing squats 3 times a week for 5x5, maybe do squats 1 time a week for a few weeks. Or do some 50-60% speed work. I would be willing to bet you are not doing a deload period. That may help you.

3-Are you doing deadlifts? that will also help your squat...but be warned, they will drain you. IMHO, 1 day of squats and 1 day of deads a week is enough for me anymore. FWIW i am at 295 squat 385 dead. The exercises are just so taxing working over that 90%, more volume than that and i would probably get injured.

Soreness will subside. I promise. I take 2 aleve.
 
brad310 said:
When you say "nag my lower back", would you say it is muscular or other?

TBH, and i did 5x5, squatting 5x5 3 times a week is a TON of volume, especially if you are doing assistance work for legs or back. You may be overtraining it in a short period of time. You have to be careful about 5x5...if you are not eating to support that volume and that % load, you can hurt yourself through overtraining.

Belt. I use a belt for anything over about 75% only if my spine is loaded. I like it. Im comfortable in it. Squat and deadlift only for the most part. Shrugs if it is with a barbell. Occasionally for overhead press. General rule of thumb for me is to belt up for anything over 225, but thats just me. If you use a belt, i would go off your % of your 1RM.

People are talking about the belt for your back...my back is strong-ish, and i honestly think that it takes more load off the core while when you do these movments. It makes it easier to maintain tightness throughout, resulting in that feeling you get of 'cheating'.

I squat with a barbell, and kettlebells (beltless of course). Kettlebells will make damn sure your core is not neglected. Pretty much anything you do will work it.

Purists hate them. Powerlifters swear by them. Just do what's comfortable for YOU.
Click to expand...

Your back isn't strong if you are using a belt for 225lbs. It's only strong if you weigh about 130lbs.

People should train their back so it is strong, so you can at least squat 1.5x your bw without a belt for a few reps.

Koing
 
Koing said:
Your back isn't strong if you are using a belt for 225lbs. It's only strong if you weigh about 130lbs.

People should train their back so it is strong, so you can at least squat 1.5x your bw without a belt for a few reps.

Koing
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I use the belt because it is comfortable and i trust the powerlifters that advised so.

FWIW i do RDL's over 225 with no belt specifically for this reason. I disagree that the belt point is 1.5x bw, for me, the belt point is typically whatever my work set is. The belt, for me anyway, has nothing to do with back strength, and more to do with countering the intra-abdominal pressure. Its just comfort, and trust in others that have guided me.
 
Comfort? So you feel discomfort when you don't wear the belt?

I wear a belt for heavy OLifts and squats as well but I always recommend people to only get the belt later on and train as much as they can without a belt. I'm not saying don't use the belt ever, just get stronger without a belt first.

I prefer the guys I coach to only wear the belt later on when they are stronger and they don't need to use the belt for lower weights.

Koing
 
What is a good assistance exercise for the back squat? I always have a problem with my chest caving in once I get down (I am flexible and part of the problem is I go too low). Once it caves in my squat becomes a good morning.

I have been doing some weighted situps and ab wheels to strengthen my core. And do dumbbell rows once a week.
 
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