First time Marijuana arrest of 18 year old nets him 26 Year sentence

[chasem]

Originally posted by: LostHiWay
The sentence might be harsh but look at it this way....nobody in their right mind in that area is going to be selling any kind of drugs again.

If it takes one to save many I'm for it.

that is somewhat of an idiotic statement. Its supply and demand. No one is pressing the stuff on them. When its about 1000$ an oz, someone is gonna drive a state over, grab a pound and make about 15000$. The demand never goes away.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Vernor
The illegality of certain substances has never stopped anyone from getting or using them.


All it has ever acomplished is:

1. Millions of lives were destroyed in jail.

2. It established incredibly lucrative black markets for those substances run by organized crime, and all the violence associated with that.

Not to mention the billions of tax dollars spent on keeping them in jail. If you think treatment would be expensive, think about how much 26 years of housing, guarding, feeding, providing medical care is going to cost. Think about how much tax money is being lost on public defense, appeals, court cost, prosecutor time. Think about the cost of someone not paying any taxes for 26 of their most productive years. Think about taking away a prison bed that could be used to house a violent criminal. That's just the 26 years. But what about years after that, when someone gets out of prison at 44 with no marketable skills, a criminal record, and probably a hardened criminal with criminal connections. The link from serving time to recidivism is much stronger than any link between pot and harder drugs.Just the material costs from this would run close to a million dollars, barring some health problems which could cost the state much more in medical care.
Think about the life ruined for essentially nothing. Kid selling some pot to make a few bucks. We are talking about a dried plant here. I bet if he was selling suitcase nukes, he would probably get a lighter sentence. And no, I don't smoke anything, or take any substances, but I am not stupid. I can see when the cure as worse than the disease.

 

[TNTrulez]

Legalize marijuana. This kid is going to go to jail, come out, and probably commit a crime since he doesn't have anything to fall back upon. Stupid WAR ON DRUGS.

 

[docmanhattan]

Originally posted by: skace
It was my mistake even getting involved in this thread, sorry. I don't smoke pot, I was just sticking up for some very nice people I have met who do. Whether people smoke up, use an inhaler of sorts, or bake brownies, it won't matter to you because you will find a way around it. I am not going to site sources saying potsmokers don't get angry, I was arguing based on experience, not off google. I've never seen an angry pothead, period. Oh well, I'm out, sorry I offended you with crazy banter about how people should be able to have fun.

...gotta love backhanded comments guised as submissive withdrawls. 😉

 

[docmanhattan]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Vernor
The illegality of certain substances has never stopped anyone from getting or using them.


All it has ever acomplished is:

1. Millions of lives were destroyed in jail.

2. It established incredibly lucrative black markets for those substances run by organized crime, and all the violence associated with that.

Not to mention the billions of tax dollars spent on keeping them in jail. If you think treatment would be expensive, think about how much 26 years of housing, guarding, feeding, providing medical care is going to cost. Think about how much tax money is being lost on public defense, appeals, court cost, prosecutor time. Think about the cost of someone not paying any taxes for 26 of their most productive years. Think about taking away a prison bed that could be used to house a violent criminal. That's just the 26 years. But what about years after that, when someone gets out of prison at 44 with no marketable skills, a criminal record, and probably a hardened criminal with criminal connections. The link from serving time to recidivism is much stronger than any link between pot and harder drugs.Just the material costs from this would run close to a million dollars, barring some health problems which could cost the state much more in medical care.
Think about the life ruined for essentially nothing. Kid selling some pot to make a few bucks. We are talking about a dried plant here. I bet if he was selling suitcase nukes, he would probably get a lighter sentence. And no, I don't smoke anything, or take any substances, but I am not stupid. I can see when the cure as worse than the disease.

i don't know. why should we be convinced that the people jailed for drug selling/traffiicking wouldn't end up in jail for another reason? why didn't they have an honest job to make money?

you say that millions of lives are destroyed. i saw how do we know they weren't destroyed in the first place?

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: docmanhattan

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Vernor
The illegality of certain substances has never stopped anyone from getting or using them.


All it has ever acomplished is:

1. Millions of lives were destroyed in jail.

2. It established incredibly lucrative black markets for those substances run by organized crime, and all the violence associated with that.

Not to mention the billions of tax dollars spent on keeping them in jail. If you think treatment would be expensive, think about how much 26 years of housing, guarding, feeding, providing medical care is going to cost. Think about how much tax money is being lost on public defense, appeals, court cost, prosecutor time. Think about the cost of someone not paying any taxes for 26 of their most productive years. Think about taking away a prison bed that could be used to house a violent criminal. That's just the 26 years. But what about years after that, when someone gets out of prison at 44 with no marketable skills, a criminal record, and probably a hardened criminal with criminal connections. The link from serving time to recidivism is much stronger than any link between pot and harder drugs.Just the material costs from this would run close to a million dollars, barring some health problems which could cost the state much more in medical care.
Think about the life ruined for essentially nothing. Kid selling some pot to make a few bucks. We are talking about a dried plant here. I bet if he was selling suitcase nukes, he would probably get a lighter sentence. And no, I don't smoke anything, or take any substances, but I am not stupid. I can see when the cure as worse than the disease.

i don't know. why should we be convinced that the people jailed for drug selling/traffiicking wouldn't end up in jail for another reason? why didn't they have an honest job to make money?

you say that millions of lives are destroyed. i saw how do we know they weren't destroyed in the first place?

So you are saying the state should make sure that they are destroyed?
There is no hope for someone who sold pot at 18? There is a good chance that he would just outgrow it and find another job. It shows a certain amount of enterpreneurship. If you put him to jail, you take that chance away. You guarantee that his life is ruined.
That's like going to the doctor and he tells you "There is a 10% chance you are going to die from something, so we are going to go ahead and kill you now, because there is a chance you will die anyways, so it doesn't make a difference." Makes sense? Not to me.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Jmman
And anyway, I am sure that this kid was not selling drugs in a school zone in order to be the"Rosa Parks" of the pot movement, he was doing it to make a quick buck....🙂

Perhaps you should actually read the article in question? He was selling marijuana from his house. Which just happened to be within 3 miles of a school. Which became a "school zone" only by the skilled imagination of lawyers, for whom reality is more often a hinderance than a help.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Doesn't the law also prohobit within X miles of a housing project?

Oh.... wait... staying out of this one. The law is irrelevant. Sorry -totally forgot 😉

Flame on.

 

[SuperTool]

Another Master Criminal thankfully stopped by vigilant police before he could commit more serious crimes.

We must save him from himself. Let's put him in jail for life to make sure he doesn't commit any crimes that would actually justify putting him in jail for life

 

[Mill]

Luckily(though this is detrimental normally) Alabama has split sentencing. People are sentenced to a certain amount of time but the time they have to serve is well below their actual sentence. This works horribly for violent crimes and other types of drug possession(i.e. crack) but in this case it may allow this guy to have a life one day.

In Federal Sentencing people normally serve 80% of their sentence. In Alabama people usually serve 20-30 % of a given sentence. He is looking at LEAST a term from 5-8 years. Now, if the parole board changes(which it is) then it could extend his sentence because sometimes they try to up the percentage in certain cases to make an example.

This is brought to you by the Drug Laws of Alabama which is the only place to make a school zone extend in a CIRCLE three miles from every school. Who doesn't live three miles from a school?

We also had a drug law that caused a lady life in prison for having a gallon of morphine. Actually she didn't have a gallon. She had a small ampule and poured it in to a gallon of water. Due to our cloudy laws and codes that makes it a GALLON of morphine. She received life in prison with no parole. Thankfully her sentence was commuted down to ten years(still too much) by our prior governor.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate
Doesn't the law also prohobit within X miles of a housing project?

Oh.... wait... staying out of this one. The law is irrelevant. Sorry -totally forgot 😉

Flame on.

Well in this case there is not any housing projects near him. They only thing applied was within three miles of a school. EVERYONE lives within three miles of school.

 

[docmanhattan]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
So you are saying the state should make sure that they are destroyed?
There is no hope for someone who sold pot at 18? There is a good chance that he would just outgrow it and find another job. It shows a certain amount of enterpreneurship. If you put him to jail, you take that chance away. You guarantee that his life is ruined.
That's like going to the doctor and he tells you "There is a 10% chance you are going to die from something, so we are going to go ahead and kill you now, because there is a chance you will die anyways, so it doesn't make a difference." Makes sense? Not to me.

no, that's not what i'm saying. That and saying he "shows a certain amount of enterpreneurship" is just a bunch of spin. He was selling drugs. period. Is stealing a car that is left unlock just "taking advantage of a opportunity that presented itself?" Is kill someone because you wanted their watch simply, "Unlocking your potential as a bargainer?"

i would like to see the percentage of former drug dealers ( because that's what the kid is ) that have turned around and become good, productive citizens when never faced with serious jail time for their offenses. I mean, your basically saying that we shouldn't give jail time to people who sell drugs because they "might" be good people or "could" turn alright.

do you think thi kid would stop sellind drugs if he got a wrist slap and some community service? especially in light of the fact that his father openly uses drugs? i doubt it. he'd proably return to selling to make money to pay off his fines.

 

[Mill]

Let me say one other thing. He did commit a crime and he deserves some type of punishment but 26 years is just a bit much. Anyone who breaks the law deserves an appropriate punishment but a lot of the time the wrong people get off easy and those who committed less serious crimes end up with more jail time.

The system needs reform and one day I hope I can help it.

<----- off to write a letter to the parole board(my teacher is about to join the parole board). 🙂

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: chasem

Originally posted by: LostHiWay
The sentence might be harsh but look at it this way....nobody in their right mind in that area is going to be selling any kind of drugs again.

If it takes one to save many I'm for it.

that is somewhat of an idiotic statement. Its supply and demand. No one is pressing the stuff on them. When its about 1000$ an oz, someone is gonna drive a state over, grab a pound and make about 15000$. The demand never goes away.

Holy crap - either you got some killer bud or you are paying WAY too much for your smoke 😉 If I remember correctly...<cough>... if purchased in quantitly(QP or so) shwizz (run of the mill weed) will be ~$100/oz at most unless conditions are dry😉

Just an fyi to all you who don't have a clue what weed is, looks like, or sells for. 😀 However - chasem's supply/demand argument is basically true (just wrong numbers)😉

 

[docmanhattan]

Originally posted by: Millennium
Luckily(though this is detrimental normally) Alabama has split sentencing. People are sentenced to a certain amount of time but the time they have to serve is well below their actual sentence. This works horribly for violent crimes and other types of drug possession(i.e. crack) but in this case it may allow this guy to have a life one day.

In Federal Sentencing people normally serve 80% of their sentence. In Alabama people usually serve 20-30 % of a given sentence. He is looking at LEAST a term from 5-8 years. Now, if the parole board changes(which it is) then it could extend his sentence because sometimes they try to up the percentage in certain cases to make an example.

This is brought to you by the Drug Laws of Alabama which is the only place to make a school zone extend in a CIRCLE three miles from every school. Who doesn't live three miles from a school?

We also had a drug law that caused a lady life in prison for having a gallon of morphine. Actually she didn't have a gallon. She had a small ampule and poured it in to a gallon of water. Due to our cloudy laws and codes that makes it a GALLON of morphine. She received life in prison with no parole. Thankfully her sentence was commuted down to ten years(still too much) by our prior governor.

maybe that is why the judge sentenced 26 years. knowing that only 20-30% of the sentence would actually be served, 5-8 years seems fair to me for selling drugs.

using drugs, whatever, it's your life; but selling, imho, is serious and should be punished swiftly.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: docmanhattan

Originally posted by: SuperTool
So you are saying the state should make sure that they are destroyed?
There is no hope for someone who sold pot at 18? There is a good chance that he would just outgrow it and find another job. It shows a certain amount of enterpreneurship. If you put him to jail, you take that chance away. You guarantee that his life is ruined.
That's like going to the doctor and he tells you "There is a 10% chance you are going to die from something, so we are going to go ahead and kill you now, because there is a chance you will die anyways, so it doesn't make a difference." Makes sense? Not to me.

no, that's not what i'm saying. That and saying he "shows a certain amount of enterpreneurship" is just a bunch of spin. He was selling drugs. period. Is stealing a car that is left unlock just "taking advantage of a opportunity that presented itself?" Is kill someone because you wanted their watch simply, "Unlocking your potential as a bargainer?"

i would like to see the percentage of former drug dealers ( because that's what the kid is ) that have turned around and become good, productive citizens when never faced with serious jail time for their offenses. I mean, your basically saying that we shouldn't give jail time to people who sell drugs because they "might" be good people or "could" turn alright.

do you think thi kid would stop sellind drugs if he got a wrist slap and some community service? especially in light of the fact that his father openly uses drugs? i doubt it. he'd proably return to selling to make money to pay off his fines.

Whatever the percentage turn around, it sure is better than the alternative. What percentage of drug dealers who serve 26 years in jail ever become good productive citizens? I am sure it's lower than those who just sell some weed out of their house when they are 18. And if the judge wanted the guy to serve 5-8 years, he should have sentenced him to that. It's not his job to overcompensate for the parole board's decisions. He should be the guy deciding the sentence, not the parole board. If pot was legal and people could just buy it at walgreens, this kid would be out of a job. His job was created by the drug war.

 

[docmanhattan]

Originally posted by: SuperToolIf pot was legal and people could just buy it at walgreens, this kid would be out of a job. His job was created by the drug war.

no one forced him to sell though. i doubt his guidance counselor suggested selloing drugs as a good source of fun money. he's not a victim here. there are many things that an 18 year old can do for work other then sell drugs, so please don't spin as such.

actually, i would guess that it is the judges job to take into consideration what the actual sentence will end up being for a local states system. if he didn't then i would think that he's not consideringn all the possibilities.

as far as percentage of turn arounds, i agree that if the sentence is shorter, they do have a better chance to lead an honest life, however, if they don't receive anything more than a wrist slap when convicted how likely is it they that change their ways versus if they knew that they have a minimum of 5-8 years if they did it again. if the 20-30% stat is true, then the 26 year sentencinng is not as outragous as it sounds, plus it can serve as deterant to people considerinng takinng up drug dealing as a side job.

 

[skyking]

When's the last time you heard someone taking a vintage 1973 Purple Kush to a party cause it goes well with the Filet and New world potatos? HAHAH

No, but it makes them crave the ground round and Macdesperate fries AS IF it was filet and Baby Reds!😉

 

[skyking]

Originally posted by: Saltin
US Drug Policy ("The War on Drugs") is completely misguided. It doesnt take a genius to figure out that people sell drugs because people want drugs.
Is punishing the people that supply them the solution?
Why not think about addressing the reasons why people buy/use them in the first place?

The long and short of it, is that drug use is a social, not criminal problem. Many nations around the world either have or are beginning to figure that out.

Drug use has been a facet of human life since day one. There is no disputing that. Since the beggining of our time on earth, Humans have sought to alter thier state of conciousness.

Take a look at small children in the park, spinning and spinning untill they are dizzy and fall down. Why do they do that? It alters their perception of the world. One could almost argue that this need to alter perception is "built in behaviour"

History speaks for itself. People use drugs. They always have, and they always will. America needs to be mindful of this. America needs to stop punishing people for being people. America needs to educate people from an early age that drug use can have serious reprecussions on both your mental and physical health. This is true whether the drug is legal (caffine, alcohol, tobacco) or illegal (pot, narcotics, cocaine). Substance abuse is no joke, and it needs to be addressed, but America's war on drugs is certainly the most totalitarian aspect of life in America. It needs to be fixed.

Nice😀

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: hagbard
So, pot shouldn't be legal because you get high? Boy, aren't you the life of the party? This actually touchs on what pot is illegal, its a religious issue.

You're right, pot should be legalized. So should crack. Just because it gets you high doesn't mean it's bad.

It shouldn't be a legal matter. Its not your life.

Why don't people read, it?s really lame how ATOT selectively take what you want to hear, and turn it around? I said it's because it has no alternative uses. HEMP is legal because it can be made into clothes and a variety of other materials because it does not contain THC. It has uses and is legal.

So, it has many purposes, one of which is to get high.

But pot on the other hand has no true uses (other than medical, which is why there is Medical Marijuana). IT is used specifically for getting high. You don't see bob bringing a 1973 Purple Kush to a dinner party because it goes well with the filet. It is what it is, it's a recreational drug used for getting high. That is specifically why it is illegal.

Which is what I said. Its a religious issue because the puritians in the US don't want people to get high and hope into bed with people of other races. Just look at their campaign for the past six years. Hey, if someone wants to get high, that's their business, not yours. Hense, no invitation to you.

The guy asked a question and I answered it. You don't have to be sarcastic because you don't agree with what i say.

I'm answering your question, I prefer being brief and to the point.

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: Millennium
There is just no way to justify this type of sentence. Even good ole Ed Rosenthal who had a fair trial does not deserve the 85 years that he could be sentenced to. We have to have some type of sane enforcement and this is NOT IT!

No one is arguing that this guy didn't get busted. He did do something illegal, but 26 YEARS? Insane.

Do you know anything about the case? It doesn't sound like it.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: docmanhattan

Originally posted by: SuperToolIf pot was legal and people could just buy it at walgreens, this kid would be out of a job. His job was created by the drug war.

no one forced him to sell though. i doubt his guidance counselor suggested selloing drugs as a good source of fun money. he's not a victim here. there are many things that an 18 year old can do for work other then sell drugs, so please don't spin as such.

actually, i would guess that it is the judges job to take into consideration what the actual sentence will end up being for a local states system. if he didn't then i would think that he's not consideringn all the possibilities.

as far as percentage of turn arounds, i agree that if the sentence is shorter, they do have a better chance to lead an honest life, however, if they don't receive anything more than a wrist slap when convicted how likely is it they that change their ways versus if they knew that they have a minimum of 5-8 years if they did it again. if the 20-30% stat is true, then the 26 year sentencinng is not as outragous as it sounds, plus it can serve as deterant to people considerinng takinng up drug dealing as a side job.

First of all, there is still a chance that this kid will serve the full 26 years. It shouldn't be left up to the parole board. They should change the laws so that the 80% of the sentence is served and sentence accordingly.
They could have given the kid a suspended sentence or probation. That would be good deterrent for a first time offender. You do it again, you go to jail. It worked for Nick Nolte. I think he got a suspended life sentence. Look what he did with his life. I bet he paid enought taxes to fund a whole school. This kids life is for all intents and purposes wasted. Is it worth it for what he did?

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: Millennium
There is just no way to justify this type of sentence. Even good ole Ed Rosenthal who had a fair trial does not deserve the 85 years that he could be sentenced to. We have to have some type of sane enforcement and this is NOT IT!

No one is arguing that this guy didn't get busted. He did do something illegal, but 26 YEARS? Insane.

Do you know anything about the case? It doesn't sound like it.

A good bit actually Trollbard. What part of my post did you have a problem with you blithering asshat?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Saltin
US Drug Policy ("The War on Drugs") is completely misguided. It doesnt take a genius to figure out that people sell drugs because people want drugs.
Is punishing the people that supply them the solution?
Why not think about addressing the reasons why people buy/use them in the first place?

The long and short of it, is that drug use is a social, not criminal problem. Many nations around the world either have or are beginning to figure that out.

Drug use has been a facet of human life since day one. There is no disputing that. Since the beggining of our time on earth, Humans have sought to alter thier state of conciousness.

Take a look at small children in the park, spinning and spinning untill they are dizzy and fall down. Why do they do that? It alters their perception of the world. One could almost argue that this need to alter perception is "built in behaviour"

History speaks for itself. People use drugs. They always have, and they always will. America needs to be mindful of this. America needs to stop punishing people for being people. America needs to educate people from an early age that drug use can have serious reprecussions on both your mental and physical health. This is true whether the drug is legal (caffine, alcohol, tobacco) or illegal (pot, narcotics, cocaine). Substance abuse is no joke, and it needs to be addressed, but America's war on drugs is certainly the most totalitarian aspect of life in America. It needs to be fixed.

Amen

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: Millennium
There is just no way to justify this type of sentence. Even good ole Ed Rosenthal who had a fair trial does not deserve the 85 years that he could be sentenced to. We have to have some type of sane enforcement and this is NOT IT!

No one is arguing that this guy didn't get busted. He did do something illegal, but 26 YEARS? Insane.

Do you know anything about the case? It doesn't sound like it.

A good bit actually Trollbard. What part of my post did you have a problem with you blithering asshat?

You don't sound it. Rosenthal was growing the marijuana as he was contracted to do by the municipality, he shouldn't be receiving any jail time. Not only that, the judge specifically prevented any evidence to be shown to the jury that would indicate this. The jurors were outraged when they found out that Ed was growing on behalf of the city of Oakland. It was a witchhunt.

FYI:

Medical Marijuana Jurors Offer Apology to Rosenthal and Family