First Successful Teleportation Experiment !

[Azraele]

I'm not a scientific wonder, but I think the ideas and arguments in this thread are fascinating, especially the idea put forth by ThePresence and wQuay's question about the soul.

 

[syzygy]

i didn't think the uncertaintiy principle would be the major obstacle its been made out in this discussion,
and here, in the link below, an ibm researcher puts the uncertainty principle in better perspective vis-a-vis
quantum teleportation. there are greater hurdles to overcome but none are imaginatively insurmountable.
'a fun talk on teleportation'

Hey, but you're all clamering out there "what about the uncertainty principle, can you really measure things that accurately?" Well quantum theory tells us that the precision with which we can measure position and velocity of any particle are limited by a very simple formula:

see formula in link.

If we want to measure each atom to within a typical atomic size this means that the velocities will be uncertain by about
300 meters per second (if the particle weighs as much as a Hydrogen atom say). This sounds fast, but it's not so bad. The
ordinary jiggling of our atoms due to us being at room temperature is bigger than this by a factor of three or more. In other
words, the uncertainty principle doesn't appear to be too restrictive in terms of how well we can measure those atoms

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: syzygy
i didn't think the uncertaintiy principle would be the major obstacle its been made out in this discussion,
and here, in the link below, an ibm researcher puts the uncertainty principle in better perspective vis-a-vis
quantum teleportation. there are greater hurdles to overcome but none are imaginatively insurmountable.
'a fun talk on teleportation'

Hey, but you're all clamering out there "what about the uncertainty principle, can you really measure things that accurately?" Well quantum theory tells us that the precision with which we can measure position and velocity of any particle are limited by a very simple formula:

see formula in link.

If we want to measure each atom to within a typical atomic size this means that the velocities will be uncertain by about
300 meters per second (if the particle weighs as much as a Hydrogen atom say). This sounds fast, but it's not so bad. The
ordinary jiggling of our atoms due to us being at room temperature is bigger than this by a factor of three or more. In other
words, the uncertainty principle doesn't appear to be too restrictive in terms of how well we can measure those atoms

OK, so we'll either come out frozen, or boiling. :Q

 

[Podolak]

It was my thought that our personalities, memories ect are "inscribed" into our brain, like literally. Therefor if they made an exact copy then all of that info would go over. As far as the issue of the soul going over if it is meant like I said, the memories and so forth then sure it would but if we are talking about the bigger SOUL I don't even think I'll touch that right now...

 

[ThePresence]

Another thing to address. Say you CAN overcome Heisenburg and are able to measure the exact possition and velocity of every particle. What happens if you transport someone from the equator (moving at roughly 1038mph) to the North poll (moving at 0mph)? They will splatter against the side of the telepod. :Q

I dont see the problem. You are assuming that teleportation here is "real" teleportation; actually moving a person from one point to another. I dont believe that they are doing that. They are destroying the person at point A and recreating him at point B. Why would he be moving at the speed of point A when he's rebuilt at point B?

 

[rbhawcroft]

the way i understand it is that they have to bend and link sapce-time, so:

if you do a space time bending from a region in one side of a room and the same at the other, and you get them to meet then the bits that meet will become a 'transport' tunnel in normal terms, but right next to eachother in actual terms, so you could just step through. ie because space time has been kinked then its actually next to eachother. so you dont clone, or recreate or break apart or accelerate apart anything.

 

[worth]

Most people think cloning is something like "mv here there" when in reality it is probably something like "cp here there; rm here."

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: AmusedOne

Originally posted by: rbhawcroft

Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Call me when they solve the seemingly insurmountable problem with the Heisenburg Principle.

who he?

Werner Heisenberg

He states, more or less, that the more you know about one aspect of a subatomic particle, the less you can know about the other.

I thought the Heisenburg Uncertainty principle was that you can never be sure where a particle is, in order to be sure you must expose it to light, therefore moving the particle from its previous spot, so you can't know where they were.

 

[rbhawcroft]

Originally posted by: DaiShan

Originally posted by: AmusedOne

Originally posted by: rbhawcroft

Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Call me when they solve the seemingly insurmountable problem with the Heisenburg Principle.

who he?

Werner Heisenberg

He states, more or less, that the more you know about one aspect of a subatomic particle, the less you can know about the other.

I thought the Heisenburg Uncertainty principle was that you can never be sure where a particle is, in order to be sure you must expose it to light, therefore moving the particle from its previous spot, so you can't know where they were.

it says that at a subatomic level only, if you measure sth, then because you are measuring it with a same sized/ energised method/ particle etc then you affect it to the extent that you cant measure it, where as on the atomic level you dont affect it as significantly.

 

[MaxDepth]

pppbbbthhthtttt! Those darn Aussies smokin some of that 'roo dung again, that's what I'm thinkin.


Call me when they can zap a cold, frosty one to my desktop from down under!

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: syzygy
i didn't think the uncertaintiy principle would be the major obstacle its been made out in this discussion,
and here, in the link below, an ibm researcher puts the uncertainty principle in better perspective vis-a-vis
quantum teleportation. there are greater hurdles to overcome but none are imaginatively insurmountable.
'a fun talk on teleportation'

Hey, but you're all clamering out there "what about the uncertainty principle, can you really measure things that accurately?" Well quantum theory tells us that the precision with which we can measure position and velocity of any particle are limited by a very simple formula:

see formula in link.

If we want to measure each atom to within a typical atomic size this means that the velocities will be uncertain by about
300 meters per second (if the particle weighs as much as a Hydrogen atom say). This sounds fast, but it's not so bad. The
ordinary jiggling of our atoms due to us being at room temperature is bigger than this by a factor of three or more. In other
words, the uncertainty principle doesn't appear to be too restrictive in terms of how well we can measure those atoms

You've got the theory a little wrong, if you know the position you can't know the momentum. Momentum != velocity. Say you teleport a molecue, you acuratly measure position but not momentum then recreate the molecue. Without the knowledge of momentum I have a feeling that each of the chemical bonds would be noexistant and the molecue would fly apart as soon as it appears. Teleport a human and you would have a big puff of gas and dust on the other side but no human.

There was actually an Outerlimits that dealt with this concept recently. It stared the photographer from the TV show Just Shoot Me.

 

[dieselstation]

YO YO YO.. people slow down!!!!

lets talk about teleporting material objects first (which in itself is an amazing accomplishment) before we talk about teleporting organic beings. Besides, i'm sure there will be laws in effect that might even ban organic teleportation along the same lines as cloning laws currently in effect.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: AmusedOne

Originally posted by: Sir Fredrick

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1You would need to make sure that all the chemical and electrical processes of the body continue in exact the same way, and that all the particles of the body reappear at exact the same distance to eachother, with the same speed and direction they had before, and at the same time.

That's where Heisenberg comes in. You cannot measure position and velocity at the same time.

Another thing to address. Say you CAN overcome Heisenburg and are able to measure the exact possition and velocity of every particle. What happens if you transport someone from the equator (moving at roughly 1038mph) to the North poll (moving at 0mph)? They will splatter against the side of the telepod. :Q

:Q SWEET!

 

[nd]

I think consciousness more accurately manifests the problem here rather than the concept of a "soul".

Consciousness is a very tricky thing. If you lose it, "you" no longer exist. When I refer to consciousness here, I don't mean just "being awake", but having knowledge of one's existence. I'll try to explain.

Many of us accept the logical and reasonable idea that if we were able to recreate a human, completely duplicating the particle configuration, that they would be the same person. This does make sense to me, and I'm inclined to believe it to be true -- after all, we are beings driven by the laws of physics.

Now, imagine that a perfect clone of you is created. We generally accept that this duplicate instance of you would be just like you in every way (disregarding the relatively small changes that would immediately take effect once he has different experiences from you). Imagine he's in the same room with you. Now, *you* are observing *him*. In your own mind, you're still the same person, and he's just another person who happens to be your twin. Although the two of you are the same, you still have a consciousness that restricts your existance in your original body. The clone may or may not have his own consciousness (that's way too philosophical and gets into "souls"), but the important thing here is that *his* is certainly not *your* current consciousness as long as you're still there.

I'm not familiar with any of the theories that presumably try to explain consciousness. One idea I've at least briefly heard is that your consciousness is maintained by a dimensional continuity -- if you break that continuity you lose your consciousness as you know it. Who knows.. these are not easy things to explain.

Another interesting consequence: Let's assume we did have a teleportation machine that destroyed and recreated us in another location with perfect particle configuration maintained. Some guy goes through it. We could never determine if that person maintained his original consciousness -- he would surely insist that he has, but you just can't know (my intuition makes me believe you would not maintain it since it's a duplicated instance of you).

 

[Vernor]

"The copy isn't you. It only remembers you."

 

[ISAslot]

This would be great for space travel. I'd teleport myself, but not recreate my self on another end... just put the info on a ship and send it out to some other part of the galaxy. Then at some time I will recreate at some pre set time and 1000s of years may have past and I'd be in another place, and if it sucked, I could re-teleport myself and try again. It would be better to know where you're going though.

I can see this being useful on earth too. Damn this decade sucks. See you all in 10 yrs! ZAP!

or

I can't wait till the 3Ghz AMD comes out! ZAP!

 

[Adul]

sweet!

 

[yakko]

You really should add "for earthlings" in your title.

 

[silverpig]

That's where Heisenberg comes in. You cannot measure position and velocity at the same time.

\

Okay, you guys have this pretty much right in theory, but all wrong in practice. Here is what I remember:

Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle: dxdp >= h(bar)/2

Verbally: the "fuzziness" with which you measure a particle's position, multiplied by the "fuzziness" with which you measure a particle's momentum (read: velocity) has to be greater than h(bar) (some VERY VERY VERY small number) divided by 2.

You can measure both velocity and position at the same time, and each with whatever precision you choose, but the precision with which you measure both at the same time has some fundamental limit.

Please know that this limit is so insanely small that the displacement of an atom governed by this principle probably wouldn't have an effect as to whether or not you could re-create a person.


A quick thought: Ever dropped a baseball? Did you see it fall to the earth? Did you ever think that the earth also "falls up" to the baseball (it actually does)? Do you ever account for the fact that the earth falls up to the baseball when you're going to catch a fly ball? Probably not. If my 10-second-do-it-in-my-head-without-looking-up-any-numbers-to-see-if-they-are-right-yet-am-still-pretty-sure-about math serves me, the distance that the earth falls up to the baseball after a 2 metre drop is still almost 10^20 times larger than the distances we're talking about with Heisenberg.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: ISAslot
This would be great for space travel. I'd teleport myself, but not recreate my self on another end... just put the info on a ship and send it out to some other part of the galaxy. Then at some time I will recreate at some pre set time and 1000s of years may have past and I'd be in another place, and if it sucked, I could re-teleport myself and try again. It would be better to know where you're going though.

I can see this being useful on earth too. Damn this decade sucks. See you all in 10 yrs! ZAP!

or

I can't wait till the 3Ghz AMD comes out! ZAP!

If all you want is the 3ghz Athlon (Hammer) then just take enough cough med's to sleep for the next year and BAMM, you can then get a 3ghz hammer.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Killbat

Originally posted by: TopGun
OMG he said SOUL, that sounds religous, quick flame him AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! You people are idiots. I believe when he said "soul" he was talking about personalities, memories, feelings, etc. If you destroy a human at one end of the transporter, and recreate them at the other end, to they retain their memories, and personality?

Whoa, settle!
If your memories and personalities are nothing more than 'data' in the brain, then yes, you retain them. Lucky for us there is no soul.

Yea but scientists still aren't sure how "data" get's stored in the brain. Is it chemical? Is it electrical? Is it built on physical pathways? Is it RNA based? You'd end up with comatose clones on the other side of the teleportation. Just imagine getting teleported... and when you're done, 99% of your memory is intact, but the 1% wasn't synchronized... you'd remember stuff that never happened, or even stuff that humans can't comprehend because it isn't real... major brain short circuit...

 

[silverpig]

It wouldn't matter if the info is stored electrically or chemically; if everything is copied exactly, you'd end up with the same thing on the other end.

 

[Booster]

Teleporting is a very sick idea, IMO. First, they have to 'disassemble' a human and then to 'recreate' him? Jesus... That's freaky. How do you know that what they recreate isn't going to be any different? And that disassembling won't necessarily lead to death? I'm pretty sure it would. Thus, teleporting in that form will never be able to be accomplished, be it 500 years from now or a million years.

 

[WarCon]

What would stop you from having a big enough data storage and keep a copy of yourself. Then when your old make another copy and merge the two data files in such a way that the new body has all the old memories and neural connections.

And if you thought genetic engineering could be bad about altering humans, you could just recreate the brain, but with 10x the number of dendrites and with all the bad genetic material gone. Give yourself muscles and any feature you would like. Then you could accidentally be merged with a fly and make a new movie........

..............edit...............
Think about the terrible things computer viruses could do with that system.

 

[rahvin]

Okay, you guys have this pretty much right in theory, but all wrong in practice. Here is what I remember:

Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle: dxdp >= h(bar)/2

Verbally: the "fuzziness" with which you measure a particle's position, multiplied by the "fuzziness" with which you measure a particle's momentum (read: velocity) has to be greater than h(bar) (some VERY VERY VERY small number) divided by 2.

You can measure both velocity and position at the same time, and each with whatever precision you choose, but the precision with which you measure both at the same time has some fundamental limit.

Please know that this limit is so insanely small that the displacement of an atom governed by this principle probably wouldn't have an effect as to whether or not you could re-create a person.


A quick thought: Ever dropped a baseball? Did you see it fall to the earth? Did you ever think that the earth also "falls up" to the baseball (it actually does)? Do you ever account for the fact that the earth falls up to the baseball when you're going to catch a fly ball? Probably not. If my 10-second-do-it-in-my-head-without-looking-up-any-numbers-to-see-if-they-are-right-yet-am-still-pretty-sure-about math serves me, the distance that the earth falls up to the baseball after a 2 metre drop is still almost 10^20 times larger than the distances we're talking about with Heisenberg.

If you are trying to teleport a molecule of water and the oxygen atom shifts position by 2 angstroms, do you still have a water molecule? Or, you pin position but foulup the momentum such that the electrons are no longer shared (or instead of vibrating together they then have an independent motion) and the chemical bond is broken, do you have water anymore?

Don't mess with Heisenburg, he'll kick your butt.