First Phenom II review + New review 26th

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Everthing that is not dormant has flow. Nothing in the universe is dorment for all time. So all things flow. If the Spice does not flow . Life changes as we know it and will rain on your ass.

Nemesis you are a delight! :laugh:

I got quite a few good chuckles out of that. If the spice does not flow...oh man :laugh:

Your reply made me lol. I never figured you for SiFi.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Everthing that is not dormant has flow. Nothing in the universe is dorment for all time. So all things flow. If the Spice does not flow . Life changes as we know it and will rain on your ass.

Nemesis you are a delight! :laugh:

I got quite a few good chuckles out of that. If the spice does not flow...oh man :laugh:

Your reply made me lol. I never figured you for SiFi.

I watched Dune at far too young of an age, truly it warped me for life. He who controls the spice, controls the universe! If I am anything other than a computer geek it is that I am a scifi nerd. Honestly though I haven't met many engineers who weren't anxious to fulfill some childhood fantasy born from sci-fi. I guarantee you the guys working on Westmere thought they'd grow up to work on space elevators and stuff.

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Everthing that is not dormant has flow. Nothing in the universe is dorment for all time. So all things flow. If the Spice does not flow . Life changes as we know it and will rain on your ass.

Nemesis you are a delight! :laugh:

I got quite a few good chuckles out of that. If the spice does not flow...oh man :laugh:

I was trying to remember where I had heard that line before. It was from Dune. It wasn't until Nemesis brought up Spice that I remembered. Good stuff.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Everthing that is not dormant has flow. Nothing in the universe is dorment for all time. So all things flow. If the Spice does not flow . Life changes as we know it and will rain on your ass.

Nemesis you are a delight! :laugh:

I got quite a few good chuckles out of that. If the spice does not flow...oh man :laugh:

Your reply made me lol. I never figured you for SiFi.

I watched Dune at far too young of an age, truly it warped me for life. He who controls the spice, controls the universe! If I am anything other than a computer geek it is that I am a scifi nerd. Honestly though I haven't met many engineers who weren't anxious to fulfill some childhood fantasy born from sci-fi. I guarantee you the guys working on Westmere thought they'd grow up to work on space elevators and stuff.

Good point. I should have understood that. Its what dreams are weaved from. I guess its only SIFI till science makes it fact.

 

[eternalone]

Im just happy Amd exist period . I just bought a 9750 95w AMD quad core cpu with free Ecs motherboard at frys for 149.99. Life is good. :thumbsup: lets make the best of it.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Speaking of auto overclocking on i7, I suppose it's as valid as auto overclocking through BIOS, so reviewers should enable that option on PhII as well when comparing the 2 architectures.

No, because Phenom's auto overclocking(and all other auto overclocking including video cards) are done by the software and has caveats like not working all the time and you gotta load up/download the software etc.

Core i7's Turbo mode is done on hardware. A sophisticated hardware controller monitors voltage/current/temperature and based on it it intelligently increases clock speeds. And it works and it works on all models. Since it watches multiple parameters about increasing clock speeds and does it without sacrificing CPU lifespan in anyway, its much different than regular auto overclocking.

Those arguing its not a fair comparison, there are sites that show the difference for Turbo on/off, but most aren't going to turn that off and its on by default.

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: IntelUser2000

Speaking of auto overclocking on i7, I suppose it's as valid as auto overclocking through BIOS, so reviewers should enable that option on PhII as well when comparing the 2 architectures.

No, because Phenom's auto overclocking(and all other auto overclocking including video cards) are done by the software and has caveats like not working all the time and you gotta load up/download the software etc.

Core i7's Turbo mode is done on hardware. A sophisticated hardware controller monitors voltage/current/temperature and based on it it intelligently increases clock speeds. And it works and it works on all models. Since it watches multiple parameters about increasing clock speeds and does it without sacrificing CPU lifespan in anyway, its much different than regular auto overclocking.

Those arguing its not a fair comparison, there are sites that show the difference for Turbo on/off, but most aren't going to turn that off and its on by default.

If it is a feature that I may use, of course I would want a reviewer to check it out. It will be part of the reason for purchasing the product, so I would want to know how it performs. Just because it runs in software, doesn't mean I don't want to see how it performs before I purchase the part. It would be asinine to leave it out if you were actually attempting to help people choose which processor they want to buy.

 

[JackyP]

A software feature is only benefical to a very small number of customers. Forget the server, workstation, HPC world and any linux users. Forget all the end-users who do not install the necessary software (if it really needs software and not just a bios). You are left with a crowd that probably could overclock manually anyway. It is not completely useless, but it seems close to. A test is justified if your review targets the few people who could benefit.

 

[JackyP]

...

 

[piesquared]

Well, I have pretty serious doubts that many server, workstation, and HPC people would invoke the much vaunted turbo either. It really makes no sense for them. So that leaves us with the same crowd that you say could overclock manually anyway, so where's the advantage again? The only way I see it as usefull, is if the 200mhz or so increase in OC is the max i7 is capable of. And I know that isn't the case, as there have been decent OC's reported around the web.
And i've seen HT mentioned many times also in various forums. The problem here is that in some cases it decreases performance and some cases it increases performance. What settings does Intel recommend for OEM's to use; ie., do they have it on or off by default? If they leave it off to not negatively affect all around performance, then the benefits for those usage models that can use it decreases also. It seems to me it's a case that has huge benefits to servers, HPC and workstations that have specific usage models but for DT enthusiasts, it's a case of trial and error, popping in and out of BIOS testing various software for the best settings at any given time. It's a great architecture, but it has many limitations also.

P.S.

Still waiting for those Virtualization tests/articles, Anand and TR.....

 

[dmens]

Well, I have pretty serious doubts that many server, workstation, and HPC people would invoke the much vaunted turbo either. It really makes no sense for them

eh what? it's intel guaranteed auto OC. why would they turn it off?

 

[piesquared]

Originally posted by: dmens

Well, I have pretty serious doubts that many server, workstation, and HPC people would invoke the much vaunted turbo either. It really makes no sense for them

eh what? it's intel guaranteed auto OC. why would they turn it off?

Do you mean, 'guaranteed auto OC depending on thermals'?

 

[Phynaz]

Originally posted by: piesquared

Originally posted by: dmens

Well, I have pretty serious doubts that many server, workstation, and HPC people would invoke the much vaunted turbo either. It really makes no sense for them

eh what? it's intel guaranteed auto OC. why would they turn it off?

Do you mean, 'guaranteed auto OC depending on thermals'?

Dmens, don't let the AMD troll bait you.

 

[tim924]

I call this bs,why must AMD fanboys always create misconceptions to make people believe PII would make AMD the crown,while I do hope AMD can bring some improvements on itself,and the latest news on better OC ability over Phenom sure is a plus if one is considering a upgrade,I mean producing some competition with Intel is quite what we want,but look at this so-called benchmarks,OP only list "gaming" feature as the only thing he dares to use to compare with i7,yet what did they use in this comparison,duh a single 4850 Ati?I think most of us have seen a E8500 or E8600 benchmark with a single gpu setup beating i7 920 in that single gaming benchmark right?Heck who would really consider using a single 4850 as a legit comparison as it's too obvious of a GPU limited test,OP save your AMD loyalty as AMD does not pay you for advertising,nor would the people here foolishly look at that kind of benchmarks and thinking AMD would beat Intel now.Buttom line,I'm pleased with the facts that AMD does come up with a great product with PII,but realistically it may increase the competition with C2Q and later LGA 1166,but with a better utilized setup(multiple GPU for gaming/encoding/rendering) which is the path computers design heading now,I just can not see a direct comparison with core i7 yet at this point.

 

[piesquared]

Well that's exactly how it works, Phynaz. You both know that, so it is not guaranteed and requires sufficient cooling, which leads to other complications when considering turbo's usefulness in those environments.
I'm not trying to bait anyone.

 

[jones377]

Originally posted by: piesquared
Well that's exactly how it works, Phynaz. You both know that, so it is not guaranteed and requires sufficient cooling, which leads to other complications when considering turbo's usefulness in those environments.
I'm not trying to bait anyone.

The standard cooler that comes with i7 is designed to operate up to 130W safely in somewhat extreme conditions (like a much higher ambient case temp than most have), it's called TDP. TurboBoost will not exceed that 130W limit. And it is a guaranteed feature from Intel. If you overclock your CPU you violate warranty. If you keep TurboBoost on you do not violate warranty.

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: jones377

Originally posted by: piesquared
Well that's exactly how it works, Phynaz. You both know that, so it is not guaranteed and requires sufficient cooling, which leads to other complications when considering turbo's usefulness in those environments.
I'm not trying to bait anyone.

The standard cooler that comes with i7 is designed to operate up to 130W safely in somewhat extreme conditions (like a much higher ambient case temp than most have), it's called TDP. TurboBoost will not exceed that 130W limit. And it is a guaranteed feature from Intel. If you overclock your CPU you violate warranty. If you keep TurboBoost on you do not violate warranty.

Which is pretty much what he said in the first place.

What is with all the senseless arguing all of a sudden. I thought that was what the video forum was for

Does it always get so emotional on this forum when two companies have competitive parts? (AMD/nVidia, or Intel/AMD in this case) No one seems to get emotional when one of the parts isn't very competitive.

Originally posted by: JackyP
A software feature is only benefical to a very small number of customers. Forget the server, workstation, HPC world and any linux users. Forget all the end-users who do not install the necessary software (if it really needs software and not just a bios). You are left with a crowd that probably could overclock manually anyway. It is not completely useless, but it seems close to. A test is justified if your review targets the few people who could benefit.

That would be the purpose of the review. If it is shown not to be very useful, then I would know that I don't need it. If it is shown to have some useful features then I would use it. If they don't review it, the only way I would know would be to try it out myself; and that would require me to buy the part first.

 

[Phynaz]

Originally posted by: piesquared
Well that's exactly how it works, Phynaz. You both know that, so it is not guaranteed and requires sufficient cooling, which leads to other complications when considering turbo's usefulness in those environments.
I'm not trying to bait anyone.

What speed is an AMD cpu guaranteed to run at without sufficient cooling?

 

[dmens]

Originally posted by: piesquared
Well that's exactly how it works, Phynaz. You both know that, so it is not guaranteed and requires sufficient cooling, which leads to other complications when considering turbo's usefulness in those environments.
I'm not trying to bait anyone.

um, arguably in commercial applications it is *more* likely to enter turbo mode than in the testing condition. the testing is done with a hot plate strapped to the heat sink.

 

[Tempered81]

Phenom II @ 4800mhz on air cooling:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...?p=3512533&postcount=1

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Martimus
That would be the purpose of the review. If it is shown not to be very useful, then I would know that I don't need it. If it is shown to have some useful features then I would use it. If they don't review it, the only way I would know would be to try it out myself; and that would require me to buy the part first.

Should be a sticky quote on the frontpage of Anandtech.com.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: jaredpace
Phenom II @ 4800mhz on air cooling:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...?p=3512533&postcount=1

Yeah and then the guy said he had to go off and fix his hard drive...it doesn't sound like it was stable at that speed. :thumbsdown:

That guy is nuts tho. He even pulled out the dry ice.

 

[Tempered81]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: jaredpace
Phenom II @ 4800mhz on air cooling:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...?p=3512533&postcount=1

Yeah and then the guy said he had to go off and fix his hard drive...it doesn't sound like it was stable at that speed. :thumbsdown:

That guy is nuts tho. He even pulled out the dry ice.

oops i read wrong. He actually only did 4.2 on air, 4.4 and 4.8 were on dry ice...

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: piesquared
Well, I have pretty serious doubts that many server, workstation, and HPC people would invoke the much vaunted turbo either. It really makes no sense for them. So that leaves us with the same crowd that you say could overclock manually anyway, so where's the advantage again? The only way I see it as usefull, is if the 200mhz or so increase in OC is the max i7 is capable of. And I know that isn't the case, as there have been decent OC's reported around the web.
And i've seen HT mentioned many times also in various forums. The problem here is that in some cases it decreases performance and some cases it increases performance. What settings does Intel recommend for OEM's to use; ie., do they have it on or off by default? If they leave it off to not negatively affect all around performance, then the benefits for those usage models that can use it decreases also. It seems to me it's a case that has huge benefits to servers, HPC and workstations that have specific usage models but for DT enthusiasts, it's a case of trial and error, popping in and out of BIOS testing various software for the best settings at any given time. It's a great architecture, but it has many limitations also.

P.S.

Still waiting for those Virtualization tests/articles, Anand and TR.....

The advantage is if you slap 2 systems together and leave it. The i7 system will overclock automatically because turbo is a default piece of the technology. You don't have to change one setting, you don't even have to change the HSF because Intel guarantees that turbo will function with stock fans. Stock means no changes and from the moment you install an i7, turbo is on.

Your doubts are unfounded. Servers and the like are exactly the people who would NOT turn off Turbo. They won't go messing with BIOS settings and fiddling around with voltages. They will leave turbo on as it gives a bit of performance boost for free.

 

[Zstream]

Umm, most server boards will not have the option turned on by default. Any variance in CPU speed can cause catastrophic events when doing large transactions. If it is not turned off for them they will eventually turn it off because something stupid happened that will point to the overclock.