First DSLR

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: shuttleboi
If you are serious about SLRs, you have to keep in mind that you are not buying into an individual camera; rather, you are buying into an entire lens family. IMHO the Canon lenses are better than Nikon's.

IMHO, Nikon wide-angle > Canon wide angle. Broad generalizations are impossible, because each line of lenses has its strengths and its weaknesses.

 

[shuttleboi]

Originally posted by: ProviaFan

Originally posted by: shuttleboi
If you are serious about SLRs, you have to keep in mind that you are not buying into an individual camera; rather, you are buying into an entire lens family. IMHO the Canon lenses are better than Nikon's.

IMHO, Nikon wide-angle > Canon wide angle. Broad generalizations are impossible, because each line of lenses has its strengths and its weaknesses.

I agree completely. I own Canon gear, and I feel no animosity towards Nikon in the slightest. Just choose a company that will be around and produces good lenses. Even then, Tamron and Sigma produce good 3rd party lenses.

 

[spidey07]

so who is regarded as having the best macro lenses/accessories?

From looking around it seems Canon.

one last question - white balance is always incredibly difficult for what I'm trying to do. Am I to understand that I can sample white balance into some kind of numerical value and then shoot in RAW and then apply this value to get colors correct?

I can set it on my sony and it works decent (take a sample of a pure white card under my lighting conditions), but I'd like to have a specific value that I could apply.

 

[yhelothar]

If you're a big fan of primes, you might want to consider the Pentax line
Pentax has a pretty decent line of zooms too, with the new 10-17mm fisheye, 12-24mm.
But nothing beats the Limited primes in terms of quality. They're commonly referred as affordable leicas for the masses. On addition to that, you get a big and bright viewfinder on the *ist DS2, that's even bigger than the one found on the Canon 20D/D200.

True that Canon and Nikon has a more complete line of lenses, but do you really need that many? looking at Canon's site for standard lenses, reveals that they have several lens that convers pretty much the same range. 28-80mm F/3.5-56, 28-90 F/4-5.6, 24-75mm F/3.5-4.5, 28-105 F/4-5.6, 28-85 F/3.5-4.5
How friggen many do you need?

 

[spidey07]

Holy smokes!

Check out amazon's deal's on the canon 20D and nikon 50D and other cameras.

will be purchasing tonight

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Holy smokes!

Check out amazon's deal's on the canon 20D and nikon 50D and other cameras.

will be purchasing tonight

Canon is trying to ditch inventory before the release of the 30D...coming soon!

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: spidey07
Holy smokes!

Check out amazon's deal's on the canon 20D and nikon 50D and other cameras.

will be purchasing tonight

Canon is trying to ditch inventory before the release of the 30D...coming soon!

that makes sense. But amazon's sale is on all their cameras, not just these. guess the new cameras come out this time of year?

Wasn't there a canon camera that you could flash with 3rd party firmware to turn it into it's bigger brother?

 

[GTaudiophile]

The EOS-30D will be out right before PMA, which starts February 26. Also, everyone knows that Canon's camera lines have an 18-month product lifecycle.

The EOS-20D debuted on August 19, 2004. 18 months expires on February 19, 2006.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
The EOS-30D will be out right before PMA, which starts February 26. Also, everyone knows that Canon's camera lines have an 18-month product lifecycle.

The EOS-20D debuted on August 19, 2004. 18 months expires on February 19, 2006.

dang you!

Now I'm not gonna buy.

Although, if I can get the body for cheap and put my money into the lenses and listen to what everybody says "you're buying a lens system, not a camera"

hmmmmmm.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
The EOS-30D will be out right before PMA, which starts February 26. Also, everyone knows that Canon's camera lines have an 18-month product lifecycle.

The EOS-20D debuted on August 19, 2004. 18 months expires on February 19, 2006.

dang you!

Now I'm not gonna buy.

Although, if I can get the body for cheap and put my money into the lenses and listen to what everybody says "you're buying a lens system, not a camera"

hmmmmmm.

Canon introduced the EOS-350D on February 17, 2005. 18 months expires on August 17, 2006. So you can expect the EOS-400D this coming August. In other words, a camera with most of the internal hardware of the upcoming EOS-30D for < $1000!

😛

 

[shuttleboi]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

True that Canon and Nikon has a more complete line of lenses, but do you really need that many? <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=ProductCatIndexAct&fcate
<b"><b">oryid=149">looking at Canon's site for standard lenses</a>, reveals that they have several lens that convers pretty much the same range. 28-80mm F/3.5-56, 28-90 F/4-5.6, 24-75mm F/3.5-4.5, 28-105 F/4-5.6, 28-85 F/3.5-4.5
How friggen many do you need?

The difference between lenses of similar focal length lies in a particular lens' maximum aperture and build. Very generally speaking, look for lenses with a max aperture of f/2.8 or larger (that is, with a lower f number). For example, in the mid-zoom range, Canon has the 24-85mm f/3.5-5.6 and similar. The very high end mid-zoom is their flagship 24-70mm f2.8L, which is over $1200.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
The EOS-30D will be out right before PMA, which starts February 26. Also, everyone knows that Canon's camera lines have an 18-month product lifecycle.

The EOS-20D debuted on August 19, 2004. 18 months expires on February 19, 2006.

dang you!

Now I'm not gonna buy.

Although, if I can get the body for cheap and put my money into the lenses and listen to what everybody says "you're buying a lens system, not a camera"

hmmmmmm.

Seiously man, it's the photographer who makes the photo, not the camera. Get a good deal on Rebel XT (if you can handle the build and size) or an EOS-20D and put as much into lenses as you can.

Don't believe me?

Here's what a great photographer can do with a Canon G1 (first of the G-series):
http://photography-on-the.net/gallery/list.php?exhibition=2

Here's what the same guy can do with an EOS-D30 (three generations BEFORE the EOS-20D):
http://photography-on-the.net/gallery/list.php?exhibition=1

Edit: Look at the EXIF data on the EOS-D30 and see what lenses he's using.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: shuttleboi

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

True that Canon and Nikon has a more complete line of lenses, but do you really need that many? <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=ProductCatIndexAct&fcate
<b"><b"><b">oryid=149">looking at Canon's site for standard lenses</a>, reveals that they have several lens that convers pretty much the same range. 28-80mm F/3.5-56, 28-90 F/4-5.6, 24-75mm F/3.5-4.5, 28-105 F/4-5.6, 28-85 F/3.5-4.5
How friggen many do you need?

The difference between lenses of similar focal length lies in a particular lens' maximum aperture and build. Very generally speaking, look for lenses with a max aperture of f/2.8 or larger (that is, with a lower f number). For example, in the mid-zoom range, Canon has the 24-85mm f/3.5-5.6 and similar. The very high end mid-zoom is their flagship 24-70mm f2.8L, which is over $1200.

Yup very true, that's why I didn't include the L in the list of lenses. It's in a whole different class. But out of all the lens that I listed, they are pretty much redundant versions of each other. Surely they can take out 3-4 of those, and just focus on making 2 of them really well.

 

[spidey07]

GTaudiophile,

I believe you. I've been able to take some stunning pics with my current camera.

But I've reached that point where it simply cannot do what I want it to do.

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/spidey07/Vegas1.jpg
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/spidey07/Vegas2.jpg
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/spidey07/Vegas3.jpg
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/spidey07/Vegas4.jpg
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/spidey07/Vegas5.jpg
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/spidey07/Vegas6.jpg
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/spidey07/Vegas7.jpg

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Myself (and many others) picked up Nikon D50 w/ lens kits for under $600.

Before I purchased, I played around with the D50, D70s, and 350D (I stuck to Nikon and Canon because they tend to have the best new/used lens markets). 350D was too small for my medium-sized hands, making it uncomfortable to grip and shoot lots of shots. The D50 and D70s fit my hands like a glove. Don't buy a camera based only on features; see if its even comfortable to hold and use first.

While the D70s has a few more manual adjustments, the D50 has plenty enough to keep me busy, and it shoots better pictures out-of-the-box than the D70s. The D50's sensor (yes, it is different than the D70s sensor) also handles noise noticeably better, and has more "pop" to the colors.

As for the guy arguing that DSLR is a fad...that is an absurd statement. SLR technology has been around for the better part of the 20th century and P&S cameras have always lagged behind in picture quality. The only difference now is that CMOS/CCD sensors are replacing film. But a fixed-lens, P&S camera will always have disadvantages to a more versatile body/lens SLR system.

Everything you said is true, EXCEPT, the D50 and D70/s have the same sensor, but the D50 has superior in-camera processing. The better handling of noise and the "pop" in the colors is due to the JPEG processor and contrast curve. With the same contrast curve and no NR, a D70 and D50 will produce the same picture.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
The EOS-30D will be out right before PMA, which starts February 26. Also, everyone knows that Canon's camera lines have an 18-month product lifecycle.

The EOS-20D debuted on August 19, 2004. 18 months expires on February 19, 2006.

dang you!

Now I'm not gonna buy.

Although, if I can get the body for cheap and put my money into the lenses and listen to what everybody says "you're buying a lens system, not a camera"

hmmmmmm.

Seiously man, it's the photographer who makes the photo, not the camera. Get a good deal on Rebel XT (if you can handle the build and size) or an EOS-20D and put as much into lenses as you can.

Don't believe me?

Here's what a great photographer can do with a Canon G1 (first of the G-series):
http://photography-on-the.net/gallery/list.php?exhibition=2

Here's what the same guy can do with an EOS-D30 (three generations BEFORE the EOS-20D):
http://photography-on-the.net/gallery/list.php?exhibition=1

Edit: Look at the EXIF data on the EOS-D30 and see what lenses he's using.

Yeah photographer makes up 90% of the pictures. So one should spend their time getting pics of great quality, rather than great quality pictures. 🙂

Here's pics taken with a pro with a Nikon S2 compact
Another one with a Casio Exlim-S500
Same photographer now with a Nikon D200 with high quality primes

You may argue that the P&S pics only look so great because of the models, but do any of your high school snapshots that your friends took look anywhere near that great? Composition, framing, perspective, angles, lighting is what made those pics look great.

However, P&S cameras still really suffer on the color accuracy due to the poor dynamic range. P&S cameras can never get natural looking colors.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: shuttleboi
If you are serious about SLRs, you have to keep in mind that you are not buying into an individual camera; rather, you are buying into an entire lens family. IMHO the Canon lenses are better than Nikon's.

Both C and N's lens lines have strengths and weaknesses. I think Nikon has better lenses where it matters, and you think Canon does.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: shuttleboi
If you are serious about SLRs, you have to keep in mind that you are not buying into an individual camera; rather, you are buying into an entire lens family. IMHO the Canon lenses are better than Nikon's.

Both C and N's lens lines have strengths and weaknesses. I think Nikon has better lenses where it matters, and you think Canon does.

Agreed. There's no one is better than the other, so that the other brand isn't worth considering. Every brand has their specialties.
Canon and Nikon specializing in large line of professional zooms,
Pentax focuses on building quality primes, olympus has a high quality line of lenses also. Zeiss and Leica focuses on building manual focus quality primes.
You just have to find which specialty fits you best, and buy into that system.

 

[JinLien]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: shuttleboi
If you are serious about SLRs, you have to keep in mind that you are not buying into an individual camera; rather, you are buying into an entire lens family. IMHO the Canon lenses are better than Nikon's.

Both C and N's lens lines have strengths and weaknesses. I think Nikon has better lenses where it matters, and you think Canon does.

Agreed. There's no one is better than the other, so that the other brand isn't worth considering. Every brand has their specialties.
Canon and Nikon specializing in large line of professional zooms,
Pentax focuses on building quality primes, olympus has a high quality line of lenses also. Zeiss and Leica focuses on building manual focus quality primes.
You just have to find which specialty fits you best, and buy into that system.

I wouldn't dismiss Canon so quickly on their primes. Canon L line of zoom & prime is second to none, specially the 85 mm f1.2 L, and the godly 1200 mm f5.6 L. And, recently the newer telephoto L lenses out class most if not all other lens maker having IS.

On the amateur end Nikon have it in the bag with their well built lenses, but on the pro end Canon is now the leader (a reversal roll of 15-20 years ago). And, I don?t think Canon is leaving the door open at the low end to allow Nikon roam the area freely as the mistake that Nikon did 15-20 years ago. The Rebel to Canon is a camera for the beginner to get their appetite whet and understand of what other offerings that Canon has to offer. Canon amateur bodies & lenses are much better than the crappy Rebel & kit lens, and the pro line is world apart from their bottom end.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
The EOS-30D will be out right before PMA, which starts February 26. Also, everyone knows that Canon's camera lines have an 18-month product lifecycle.

The EOS-20D debuted on August 19, 2004. 18 months expires on February 19, 2006.

dang you!

Now I'm not gonna buy.

Although, if I can get the body for cheap and put my money into the lenses and listen to what everybody says "you're buying a lens system, not a camera"

hmmmmmm.

EOS-35D spy pics!

 

[montanafan]

If you're just starting out in photography I would recommend that you go with the Canon 300D body mainly because of the price. There's not going to be a huge difference in the quality of photographs you end up with based on the camera body alone. You'll want to save there to invest in things that can make a big difference like lenses, filters, flash, tripod, remote, processing software, and a photo printer. Those are the things that make a huge difference if you really get into the hobby/job and want to experiment and get good quality prints in a wide variety of situations. If you just want to take snapshots then the 300D is fine for that as well and will give you some versatility to experiment with other situations and help you decide how much of your time and money you want to invest in photography.

I'd get it with the kit lens, then start out small with a good cheap fast lens like the Canon 50mm f/1.8 ($70), and telephoto or zoom lens like the Canon 75-300mm f/4-5.6 (under $400), remote for the 300D ($30), Speedlite 430EX (under $300), a tripod, and it would be nice to have a good 24 or 28-70mm f/2.8 lens, but I don't think Canon makes the 28-70 anymore and their 24-70 is pretty pricey. Someone here may be able recommend an alternative to the Canon for that lens; I got the Sigma, but I wouldn't recommend it. The autofocus is really slow and you can tell a difference in the overall lens quality in your photos. It's not bad, just not as good as Canon.

As for the debate about DSLRs and Point and Shoots. The Point and Shoots are improving, but I think it'll be a long time before they can give you the versatility in all types of photographic situations that a hobbyist wants from a camera to even be debating it at this point. It's kind of like that flying car from the Jetson's; I'm still waiting.

 

[ActuaryTm]

Very nice thread for those venturing into the DSLR world for the first time, especially with regard to glass.

(just referred someone to this thread bump)

 

[Mrvile]

Another important thing to consider when upgrading to a "good" lens is to get the lens that fits your shooting habits. If you like taking wide angle, landscape shots, start with a wider lens (like a Tokina 12-24) as your first "aftermarket" lens. If you like macro, get a Canon 100mm or Sigma 105mm macro lens. If you like shooting wildlife, the Canon 70-300 IS is a good starter. If you like portraits, the Canon 70-200 f/4L makes a good cheap portrait lens. If you like shooting abstract, B&W, or just want a better walkaround lens, the Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 is a good, cheap upgrade.

 

[harobikes333]

Sooo much info on this thread!😀 I think I might get a new camera!

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: Mrvile
Another important thing to consider when upgrading to a "good" lens is to get the lens that fits your shooting habits. If you like taking wide angle, landscape shots, start with a wider lens (like a Tokina 12-24) as your first "aftermarket" lens. If you like macro, get a Canon 100mm or Sigma 105mm macro lens. If you like shooting wildlife, the Canon 70-300 IS is a good starter. If you like portraits, the Canon 70-200 f/4L makes a good cheap portrait lens. If you like shooting abstract, B&W, or just want a better walkaround lens, the Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 is a good, cheap upgrade.

I don't know about the 70-200mm f/4L for portrait, but it's a good lens none the less.

If you own a Canon or Nikon, you should have a 50 f/1.8 or f/1.4 in your bag. For macro, the Sigma 50mm f/2.8 EX is razor sharp for the price ($220). I hear good things about the Tamron 28-75 as a good walkaround lens as well.