How many U.S.-supplied weapons are responsible for the death of how many Palestinians? How many Lebanese civilians? Should both of them declare war on America and start bombing us? Send us strongly-worded letters? Are we responsible for those deaths since we supplied the weapons? Or are the Israelis responsible for pulling the trigger or dropping the cluster bombs? So many questions and not so many clear-cut answers.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
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I believe that they think that they can pull it off; and that they see their interference in Iraq as enough to eventually cause a US withdrawal - through a divided American populace who eventually lose their tenacity to stick it out.
I also believe that if we pull out soon, we may eventually see Iran attempt to annex a large portion of Iraqi soil.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
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they have declared America a sworn enemy, and would happily bomb us if they had the means to do so.
they can certainly point the finger at America for supplying weapons to Israel, and others in the world; but, once again, it comes down to remembering and agreeing on this ultimate truth: We are on America's side...or, at least I am.
I believe that we are the good guys, with genuinely decent intentions. I believe the same of Israel and our other allies.
Now, if you believe otherwise, then you would have to admit to being on the enemies' sides in these conflicts. Is that the case?
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
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A united American populace, shouting a single message of condemnation, would be a very powerful force to be reckoned with. It may even be enough to make our enemies think twice about messing with our soldiers in Iraq.
As it stands, our own infighting and division gives them the courage to do as they please.
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
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You think we are divided, if Iran tried to pull something like that the economic hardships felt by the average Iranian would cause those in power now to fall. Hell, if the Hardliners in power in Iran were stupid enough to try that it would eventually work in our favor.
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
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The old Bush BS "If yer not with us your agin us". You've been trying to steer this debate so you can call those who disagree with you as traitors, I knew it from the start. Look Asshole, you are not anymore patriotic than the next guy, just more narrowminded
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
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There are some serious think-tankers who might agree with you. In fact, that is perhaps the only possible positive outcome of a full US withdrawal from Iraq. The problem lies in our ability to predict such occurrences with any amount of precision.
Analytical prediction is like gambling...
PS: what's with the name-calling bullsh*t in your last post?
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
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I thought we were discussing the new pieces on the chessboard, and our possible courses of action. These new pieces are directly responsible for the death of American soldiers.
The question is: Can America unite in condemnation of those actions, or will we remain divided on the issue out of spite for Bush's blunder of putting us in this position in the first place?
Why is it so difficult for people to blame Bush for the war AND blame Iran for their acts against our soldiers?
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
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What do you suggest, demonstrate in front of the Iranian Embassy? Oh wait, we don't have diplomatic ties with Iran so there's no Embassy, no place were the average American can demonstrate their anger with Iran.
I also bet that if a poll was taken the vast majority of Americans would condem Iran.. that is if they believed these reports. The problem is that Americans are skeptical of anything this Administration says about the situation in Iraq since they have misled us time and time again.
In the words of GWB "Fool me once, shame...shame on...you. Fool me ? can't get fooled again! "
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
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Let's see, billions of dollars wasted, over 3000 American Soldiers dead and tens of thousands maimed, the World a more dangerous place than prior to the invasion. I don't think there is anything the Dub and his handlers can do to regain the American publics trust as they thoroughly screwed the pooch and the United States with this one.
Specop 007
Diamond Member
- Jan 31, 2005
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I'm mildly suprsied no one really knows "the rest of the story" to this issue.
Before I lay that out however, I'm also saddened, although not suprised, that many on this board dont care our men and women are dying in Iraq at the hands of Iranian weapons. It doesnt suprise me, as many on this board love to see those casualties mount simply for the fact of saying "SEE TOLD YOU SO".
You should be ashamed. Whether or not we should be there will always be a point of disagreement, but that "its no big deal" these advanced weapons are killing Americans should not be a point of discussion. This simply strengthens my belief that ultimately Democrats are nothing more then traitors to the country.
Moving on to the issue of Iranian weapons, specifically the .50 caliber rifles.
Some years ago before the sale actually took place there was alot of controversy about Steyr sellling these weapons to Iran. Even before the sale took place there was alot of concern these weapons would ultimately end up in terrorist hands and be used against us. But AIran is just peaceful right?
Now heres where it gets very interesting. Steyr offered to halt the sale of weapons to Iran IF the American government would allow Steyr to import weapons into America to sell to the American public. I assure you the American public is a far more lucrative market to Steyr then Iran is.
Now guess who wouldnt budge? Guess who wouldnt negotiate? Thats right, our own government. Our government basicalyl stated "You wont sell your guns to our subjects AND you wont sell them to Iran either".
Guess what Steyr did? Told America tro pound sand to sold to Iran.
Guess what Iran did? Exactly what everyone was afraid they would o. Armed the insurgents. Hold on, let me get my shocked face on.....
So one could argue, to a point, that America is to blame for having these weapons sold to Iran and ultimately being passed to the hands of the insurgents.
Before I lay that out however, I'm also saddened, although not suprised, that many on this board dont care our men and women are dying in Iraq at the hands of Iranian weapons. It doesnt suprise me, as many on this board love to see those casualties mount simply for the fact of saying "SEE TOLD YOU SO".
You should be ashamed. Whether or not we should be there will always be a point of disagreement, but that "its no big deal" these advanced weapons are killing Americans should not be a point of discussion. This simply strengthens my belief that ultimately Democrats are nothing more then traitors to the country.
Moving on to the issue of Iranian weapons, specifically the .50 caliber rifles.
Some years ago before the sale actually took place there was alot of controversy about Steyr sellling these weapons to Iran. Even before the sale took place there was alot of concern these weapons would ultimately end up in terrorist hands and be used against us. But AIran is just peaceful right?
Now heres where it gets very interesting. Steyr offered to halt the sale of weapons to Iran IF the American government would allow Steyr to import weapons into America to sell to the American public. I assure you the American public is a far more lucrative market to Steyr then Iran is.
Now guess who wouldnt budge? Guess who wouldnt negotiate? Thats right, our own government. Our government basicalyl stated "You wont sell your guns to our subjects AND you wont sell them to Iran either".
Guess what Steyr did? Told America tro pound sand to sold to Iran.
Guess what Iran did? Exactly what everyone was afraid they would o. Armed the insurgents. Hold on, let me get my shocked face on.....
So one could argue, to a point, that America is to blame for having these weapons sold to Iran and ultimately being passed to the hands of the insurgents.
Specop 007
Diamond Member
- Jan 31, 2005
- 9,454
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Incarcerated?
Why the hell would I want to pay for that?
Much cheaper....ahhh...."alternatives".....
Specop 007
Diamond Member
- Jan 31, 2005
- 9,454
- 0
- 0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
And you wonder why people put you in the same category as McGowen and Sheeplerot!Originally posted by: Specop 007
Incarcerated?
Why the hell would I want to pay for that?
Much cheaper....ahhh...."alternatives".....
LOL
Really.
Perhaps if people cared that Americans were dying I wouldnt feel the way i do. I encourage to re-read this thread from the beginning. Lots of sympathy for the guys getting their ass shot off isnt there.
Aside from that, I notice you have no comment to the actual facts I gave.....I assume because, like others, you do not care?
Specop 007
Diamond Member
- Jan 31, 2005
- 9,454
- 0
- 0
What the hell is a moton?
And more to the point, how is what I've said in regards to the weapons an indication of me being a....what was it? "Moton"......
I could claim to be Jesus reborn, that would have no bearing on the arms sales I laid out above.
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