First bombs, now sniper rifles: the ties between Iran and Iraq are getting stronger

[MAW1082]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I am guessing that many of you just think we should sit back and let Iran keep supplying arms to kill Americans. Which pretty much fits with the left?s whole view on the war on terror. Don?t fight, its not worth it.

You obviously have no clue as to what the dynamics of the situation in Middle East are. Obviously the Iran is supporting the Shiite 'insurgency.' Obviously, the Syrians are supporting the Sunni 'insurgency.' When Saddam was deposed, the United States re-ingnited a centuries old regional civil war.

I don't understand what you are promoting ProfJohn, are you suggesting that we start a military conflict with Iran?

I definitely don't support that. I know you are very fond of referencing WWII, so here is a comparison I think is pertinent: The United States is the most powreful military force the world had ever seen. At the height of its power, Nazi Germany was also the most powerful military force the world had ever seen. Both nations sought to control the world through force.

Nazi Germany was conquered by the combined power of many less powerful nations. The United States cannot afford to 'go it alone again.' The 'go-it-alone' mentality cannot succeed.

 

[Colt45]

How many rebel groups has the US armed over the years?

 

[nullzero]

There is really not much we can do to Iran, unless the U.S. government somehow sells the American public on extending the war into Iran. There is a chance the U.S. will stage another kind of gulf of tolken incident with Iran that will lead us into battle against them. What also can play out is the U.S. will use Israel to take the lead in air strikes on Iran. Israel will strike the nuclear sites and take out the Iran's ability to strike back as well. The U.S. will then come in with bombers and special forces if Iranians decides to fire back with force at Israel. If anything Iran will get the crapped bombed out of it, if the U.S. engages them.

Its pretty sad but it looks like we are on track with a armed confirmtation with Iran before Bush leaves the white house. If this happens all bets are off for having even a remotely stable Iraq... All hell will break out across the streets and small Iranian military groups will stage attacks across Iraq against the U.S.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

This is a nightmare... It doesn't take a genius to realize that Iran has been funding and arming the insurgents for a while now. How else to a bunch of dirt-poor, broke bastards come up with explosives and weapons and AMMO(!)? Those things are expensive folks. And the level of sophistication involved the attacks has steadily escalated. 2 + 2 = ?

That said... With all the damage being done in Iraq, and all the Iraqis who are being killed on a daily basis... the very government that WE installed in Iraq is now making kissy-faces at Iran. It's time to go.

 

[GrGr]

Saudi Arabia is supplying the Sunni insurgents with money and weapons. Time to start bombing the Saudis too, no?

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
How else to a bunch of dirt-poor, broke bastards come up with explosives and weapons and AMMO(!)? Those things are expensive folks.

This one is answered in part by another failure in planning for after "Mission Accomplished."

We didn't go into Iraq with enough troops to secure or dispose of the huge amounts of conventional weapons and explosives that Saddam had accumulated, so literally tons of explosives and weapons were looted during and after the initial fighting.

Most of it was done (as with other looting) for resale not for creating an insurgency, but this massive supply of looted weapons and explosives drove prices down.

It's also part of the culture there for adult males to own an AK-47, which was something Saddam surprisingly allowed since he controlled the heavy weapons and the secret police.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: bamacre
So what if they are? What gives the USA the right to meddle in Iraqi affairs and not Iran?

We're bigger than they are.

And that's about it.

That and a UN resolution giving us the right to be there, according to the UN.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: ironwing
All the more reason to get out of Iraq.

:thumbsup:

 

[jackschmittusa]

Not that I am particularly happy about it. but it does sem that they are only doing the same thing the U.S. has dozens of times over the years. Calling it an act of war seems pretty over-the-top.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Todd33
We did it to USSR in Afghanistan, they do it to us in Iraq. We'd do the same if Iran invaded Canada. Good luck drumming up support for a war of this kind of petty thing. All fair in love and war.

Hell if Iran was occupying Iraq we'd be doing the same thing. In fact if Iran was in Iraq we probably wouldn't be as covert about it.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Let me see if I can understand what you are trying to sell....er...tell us Prof

The SUNNI led government of Iran is providing arms to the SHIA insurgency in Iraq to undermine the SUNNI government in Iraq that has repeatedly reached out to it.

Yeah, that makes perfect logical sense.

Did you ever once question the validity of the statements that are being reported? Each of the reports of Iranian arms has always had the words or phrases; "it is believed", "alledgedly" and "intel suggests".

Should every other country on the planet that we have meddled in start bombing raids on the U.S. because of all of the American weaponry that was sold to help kill its citizenry?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Todd33
We did it to USSR in Afghanistan, they do it to us in Iraq. We'd do the same if Iran invaded Canada. Good luck drumming up support for a war of this kind of petty thing. All fair in love and war.

"petty"?!?!? tell that to the American soldiers killed or wounded by Iranian weapons.. or their families!

I boggles my fvcking mind that Americans can't even agree to condemn the Iranians involved. It's as though half of this country is willing to give the Iranians a free pass simply because we wandered into their neighborhood.

Nobody should call for the US to attack Iran; but, it would sure be swell if EVERY American condemned Iran for their actions. Heck, a truly united American populace might be enough to scare Iran into line... Instead, the Iranian government is laughing all day long as America tears itself to pieces; pointing fingers inward.

bah... A simple "those jerks!" would be swell.

You know, I dont mind if you condemn Bush for getting us into this mess, but there is NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER for giving Iran a free pass to kill Americans.

Condemn Bush and Iran for their deaths. Is that too much to ask?

ya.. I thought so...

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: Tab
I have no doubt there's some kind of Iranian government involvement in Iraq, but so what? What are we suppose to do about it? China supported Vietcong too... You didn't expect us to actually invade them did you?

It's all a necessary excuse to invade/attack Iran. They need something, anything.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Todd33
We did it to USSR in Afghanistan, they do it to us in Iraq. We'd do the same if Iran invaded Canada. Good luck drumming up support for a war of this kind of petty thing. All fair in love and war.

"petty"?!?!? tell that to the American soldiers killed or wounded by Iranian weapons.. or their families!

I boggles my fvcking mind that Americans can't even agree to condemn the Iranians involved. It's as though half of this country is willing to give the Iranians a free pass simply because we wandered into their neighborhood.

Nobody should call for the US to attack Iran; but, it would sure be swell if EVERY American condemned Iran for their actions. Heck, a truly united American populace might be enough to scare Iran into line... Instead, the Iranian government is laughing all day long as America tears itself to pieces; pointing fingers inward.

bah... A simple "those jerks!" would be swell.

You know, I dont mind if you condemn Bush for getting us into this mess, but there is NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER for giving Iran a free pass to kill Americans.

Condemn Bush and Iran for their deaths. Is that too much to ask?

ya.. I thought so...

IF the Iranian government is involved, then absolutely, I condemn them. You need to understand, however, that you and the other Bush faithful catapulting this anti-Iran propaganda would appear a lot more credible if YOU were equally agitated about Syria, Saudi Arabia, Russia, and all the other countries who can be also be linked to the weapons and funding being used to kill American soldiers. The fact that you fixate solely on Iran suggests your priority is blind partisanship, not American lives.

 

[Red Dawn]

Who's giving the Sunni Insirgents the weapons they use to kill Americans and the Shia? Besides Bahgdad isn't the hotspots for Iraqi Insurgents in predominantly Sunni areas?

AFAIC all Foriegn Agents caught in the act of supplying Insurgents with weapons to kill Americans sould be considered legitimate targets. Other than that what can we do?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Tab
I have no doubt there's some kind of Iranian government involvement in Iraq, but so what? What are we suppose to do about it? China supported Vietcong too... You didn't expect us to actually invade them did you?

It's all a necessary excuse to invade/attack Iran. They need something, anything.

Nobody is asking you to support an attack on Iran... but verbal condemnation of their involvement in the deaths of American soldiers would sure be swell!

You can blame Bush for getting us into this mess in Iraq, but that does not give Iran a free pass to kill American soldiers.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Who's giving the Sunni Insirgents the weapons they use to kill Americans and the Shia? Besides Bahgdad isn't the hotspots for Iraqi Insurgents in predominantly Sunni areas?

AFAIC all Foriegn Agents caught in the act of supplying Insurgents with weapons to kill Americans sould be considered legitimate targets. Other than that what can we do?

That is a very valid and good point!

What can we do? Well, uniting our voices in condemnation against them would be a decent start!

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Tab
I have no doubt there's some kind of Iranian government involvement in Iraq, but so what? What are we suppose to do about it? China supported Vietcong too... You didn't expect us to actually invade them did you?

It's all a necessary excuse to invade/attack Iran. They need something, anything.

Nobody is asking you to support an attack on Iran... but verbal condemnation of their involvement in the deaths of American soldiers would sure be swell!

You can blame Bush for getting us into this mess in Iraq, but that does not give Iran a free pass to kill American soldiers.

No it doesn't and I don't believe anybody is saying that's ok. What they are saying is that it shouldn't be any surprise that it's happening. What would make anybody believe that this situation wouldn't be like the other situations mentioned below?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Tab
I have no doubt there's some kind of Iranian government involvement in Iraq, but so what? What are we suppose to do about it? China supported Vietcong too... You didn't expect us to actually invade them did you?

It's all a necessary excuse to invade/attack Iran. They need something, anything.

Nobody is asking you to support an attack on Iran... but verbal condemnation of their involvement in the deaths of American soldiers would sure be swell!

You can blame Bush for getting us into this mess in Iraq, but that does not give Iran a free pass to kill American soldiers.

No it doesn't and I don't believe anybody is saying that's ok. What they are saying is that it shouldn't be any surprise that it's happening. What would make anybody believe that this situation wouldn't be like the other situations mentioned below?

There are numerous posters here seemingly excusing Iran's actions and diminishing their importance. In fact, many of them do seem to be saying that it's ok.

Surprise, or no, there is still no excuse for ANY country involving themselves in the death of Americans. none.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Tab
I have no doubt there's some kind of Iranian government involvement in Iraq, but so what? What are we suppose to do about it? China supported Vietcong too... You didn't expect us to actually invade them did you?

It's all a necessary excuse to invade/attack Iran. They need something, anything.

Nobody is asking you to support an attack on Iran... but verbal condemnation of their involvement in the deaths of American soldiers would sure be swell!

You can blame Bush for getting us into this mess in Iraq, but that does not give Iran a free pass to kill American soldiers.

No it doesn't and I don't believe anybody is saying that's ok. What they are saying is that it shouldn't be any surprise that it's happening. What would make anybody believe that this situation wouldn't be like the other situations mentioned below?

There are numerous posters here seemingly excusing Iran's actions and diminishing their importance. In fact, many of them do seem to be saying that it's ok.

Surprise, or no, there is still no excuse for ANY country involving themselves in the death of Americans. none.

At least from our vantage point. I'm sure most Iranians and Arabs would beg to differ. To them there's no legitimate excuse for us being there and it's perfectly reasonable for them to do all they can to make sure we fail.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Tab
I have no doubt there's some kind of Iranian government involvement in Iraq, but so what? What are we suppose to do about it? China supported Vietcong too... You didn't expect us to actually invade them did you?

It's all a necessary excuse to invade/attack Iran. They need something, anything.

Nobody is asking you to support an attack on Iran... but verbal condemnation of their involvement in the deaths of American soldiers would sure be swell!

You can blame Bush for getting us into this mess in Iraq, but that does not give Iran a free pass to kill American soldiers.

No it doesn't and I don't believe anybody is saying that's ok. What they are saying is that it shouldn't be any surprise that it's happening. What would make anybody believe that this situation wouldn't be like the other situations mentioned below?

There are numerous posters here seemingly excusing Iran's actions and diminishing their importance. In fact, many of them do seem to be saying that it's ok.

Surprise, or no, there is still no excuse for ANY country involving themselves in the death of Americans. none.

At least from our vantage point. I'm sure most Iranians and Arabs would beg to differ. To them there's no legitimate excuse for us being there and it's perfectly reasonable for them to do all they can to make sure we fail.

that's a great way to look at it if you're attempting to brainstorm your enemies' motivations and possible courses of action; but, as an average American citizen, the enemies' views become irrelevant; and their actions which result in American casualties must be condemned... LOUDLY CONDEMNED!

After all, when the lives of American soldiers are at risk, Americans should always remain on America's side, right?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Tab
I have no doubt there's some kind of Iranian government involvement in Iraq, but so what? What are we suppose to do about it? China supported Vietcong too... You didn't expect us to actually invade them did you?

It's all a necessary excuse to invade/attack Iran. They need something, anything.

Nobody is asking you to support an attack on Iran... but verbal condemnation of their involvement in the deaths of American soldiers would sure be swell!

You can blame Bush for getting us into this mess in Iraq, but that does not give Iran a free pass to kill American soldiers.

No it doesn't and I don't believe anybody is saying that's ok. What they are saying is that it shouldn't be any surprise that it's happening. What would make anybody believe that this situation wouldn't be like the other situations mentioned below?

There are numerous posters here seemingly excusing Iran's actions and diminishing their importance. In fact, many of them do seem to be saying that it's ok.

Surprise, or no, there is still no excuse for ANY country involving themselves in the death of Americans. none.

At least from our vantage point. I'm sure most Iranians and Arabs would beg to differ. To them there's no legitimate excuse for us being there and it's perfectly reasonable for them to do all they can to make sure we fail.

that's a great way to look at it if you're attempting to brainstorm your enemies' motivations and possible courses of action; but, as an average American citizen, the enemies' views become irrelevant; and their actions which result in American casualties must be condemned... LOUDLY CONDEMNED!

IRAN, GET THEE BEHIND ME!

How's that? You think Ayatollah Igottheoila really cares? I mean we condemed them for holding our Hostages for over a year and it took concessions from Reagan in the form of weapons to get them to give them up.

Here's an idea, maybe we should open up an honest dialogue with them regarding Iraq. It might not work but we'll never know unless we try it.

 

[manicfool]

Ever since I heard the words uttered on the news a few months back "we have no immediate plans to invade Iran" and "we are not planning to attack Iran" I knew that was government speak for "We are now working on invasion plans and we will be attacking Iran sometime in the not too distant future."

I think anyone with an ounce of sense can see where this is going unless Iran gives in to U.S. and international demands and pressures. Otherwise the outcome seems inevitable.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Tab
I have no doubt there's some kind of Iranian government involvement in Iraq, but so what? What are we suppose to do about it? China supported Vietcong too... You didn't expect us to actually invade them did you?

It's all a necessary excuse to invade/attack Iran. They need something, anything.

Nobody is asking you to support an attack on Iran... but verbal condemnation of their involvement in the deaths of American soldiers would sure be swell!

You can blame Bush for getting us into this mess in Iraq, but that does not give Iran a free pass to kill American soldiers.

No it doesn't and I don't believe anybody is saying that's ok. What they are saying is that it shouldn't be any surprise that it's happening. What would make anybody believe that this situation wouldn't be like the other situations mentioned below?

There are numerous posters here seemingly excusing Iran's actions and diminishing their importance. In fact, many of them do seem to be saying that it's ok.

Surprise, or no, there is still no excuse for ANY country involving themselves in the death of Americans. none.

At least from our vantage point. I'm sure most Iranians and Arabs would beg to differ. To them there's no legitimate excuse for us being there and it's perfectly reasonable for them to do all they can to make sure we fail.

that's a great way to look at it if you're attempting to brainstorm your enemies' motivations and possible courses of action; but, as an average American citizen, the enemies' views become irrelevant; and their actions which result in American casualties must be condemned... LOUDLY CONDEMNED!

IRAN, GET THEE BEHIND ME!

How's that? You think Ayatollah Igottheoila really cares? I mean we condemed them for holding our Hostages for over a year and it took concessions from Reagan in the form of weapons to get them to give them up.

Here's an idea, maybe we should open up an honest dialogue with them regarding Iraq. It might not work but we'll never know unless we try it.

I genuinely do believe that the government of Iran cares very much about the reaction of the American populace. I believe they see our current division as a weakness that can be manipulated to accomplish their goal of making Iraq a puppet Shi'ite state of Iran.

Perhaps we should send them several strongly worded letters? ok, fine... but even then, said letters would have no effect at all if they do not have the weight of a united America behind them.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I believe they see our current division as a weakness that can be manipulated to accomplish their goal of making Iraq a puppet Shi'ite state of Iran.

Oh you think Iran would fare any better there than we have? You think Iran is in a position to actually rule over Iraq? There are millions of Sunnis and Kurds who'd fight them tooth and nail not to mention all the Sunni Arab States. Also, if you thought Iran was being disruptive to us just imagine what we could do to them. They couldn't afford it economically or militarily