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Finland to end basic income trial after two years

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SNC said:
Should there not be some sort of stigma attached to a 30 year old living in his parents basement?
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It depends on the society. There have been many cultures where several generations of the family would live together in the same household without shame.

However, I understand what you are getting at. Should there be a stigma attached to individuals that aren't productive members of society? Possibly. Having said that, I think more and more a person's contributions to society are being decoupled from that person's compensation.
 
ch33zw1z said:
Why should there be?
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I guess if your OK with raising unproductive members of society and are willing to support them and not dump them on others I don't see a problem. But you're not actually asking a question, you're just being obtuse. At some point mom and dad are not going to be around to support the bums that are to lazy to get off thier assess and then they become others responsibilities. Why are you OK with that?
 
SNC said:
I guess if your OK with raising unproductive members of society and are willing to support them and not dump them on others I don't see a problem. But you're not actually asking a question, you're just being obtuse. At some point mom and dad are not going to be around to support the bums that are to lazy to get off thier assess and then they become others responsibilities. Why are you OK with that?
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You automatically stereotype by this item alone, and in that stereotype assume it's by their unproductive nature. This is the problem.
 
SNC said:
I guess if your OK with raising unproductive members of society and are willing to support them and not dump them on others I don't see a problem. But you're not actually asking a question, you're just being obtuse. At some point mom and dad are not going to be around to support the bums that are to lazy to get off thier assess and then they become others responsibilities. Why are you OK with that?
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I think there is a a lot of assumptions in there, but even so, motivation by stigmatization sounds like a horrible idea.
 
cytg111 said:
I think there is a a lot of assumptions in there, but even so, motivation by stigmatization sounds like a horrible idea.
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Humans love to shame others and condescend via prepackaged, single serving stereotypes. Just another way to feel superior and that you're somehow more valuable than another, while feeding the brains pleasure center....in this case because someone lives at home. No context needed. Ez pz
 
ch33zw1z said:
You automatically stereotype by this item alone, and in that stereotype assume it's by their unproductive nature. This is the problem.
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Well exactly what the fuck do you think I meant by what I said? You seem to be assuming things. I was referring to those living at home sitting on thier assess all day to fucking lazy to work, who have no positive impact, not because they are physically or mentally able to, but because they are lazy fucks. Dowes that clear it up for you?
 
SNC said:
Well exactly what the fuck do you think I meant by what I said? You seem to be assuming things. I was referring to those living at home sitting on thier assess all day to fucking lazy to work, who have no positive impact, not because they are physically or mentally able to, but because they are lazy fucks. Dowes that clear it up for you?
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It's certainly more specific than "30 year old living in his parents basement". See the difference? Nice projection though, as youre the person making assumptions using stereotyped stigma unless youre going to choose to present context. So the answer to your question should be clear now.
 
SNC said:
Well exactly what the fuck do you think I meant by what I said? You seem to be assuming things. I was referring to those living at home sitting on thier assess all day to fucking lazy to work, who have no positive impact, not because they are physically or mentally able to, but because they are lazy fucks. Dowes that clear it up for you?
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It is a pickle. Not all parents are good parents.
If you raise a human being given a set of conditions you WILL get a basement dweller with zero motivation in life.
That is surely not the "lazy fucks" own fault?
So how would you go about it? Have the government intervene? When? And when does it become a violation of ones personal freedom? If it IS a violation of ones personal freedom then right now your suggestion for regulation is stigmatization by society. That doesnt sound fair to me either.
 
cytg111 said:
It is a pickle. Not all parents are good parents.
If you raise a human being given a set of conditions you WILL get a basement dweller with zero motivation in life.
That is surely not the "lazy fucks" own fault?
So how would you go about it? Have the government intervene? When? And when does it become a violation of ones personal freedom? If it IS a violation of ones personal freedom then right now your suggestion for regulation is stigmatization by society. That doesnt sound fair to me either.
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It's not always about being good parents either. Nature vs nuture is always involved. I know family that have 3 productive children, and 1 who isn't using living status as a measuring stick. The parents are hard working, caring parents. Just one kid ends up with difficulties that cause problems in their life that makes them essentially unproductive monetarily. This person still is involved in the community, is caring, gives of themself with what they can. Should we chastise and scold this person because they live with the parents? In SNC's basic assessment....hells yeah.
 
ch33zw1z said:
It's not always about being good parents either. Nature vs nuture is always involved. I know family that have 3 productive children, and 1 who isn't using living status as a measuring stick. The parents are hard working, caring parents. Just one kid ends up with difficulties that cause problems in their life that makes them essentially unproductive monetarily. This person still is involved in the community, is caring, gives of themself with what they can. Should we chastise and scold this person because they live with the parents? In SNC's basic assessment....hells yeah.
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I know that pattern as well, there is a great number of factors that can be stacked against an individual including medical diagnosis (asperger, adhd etc).
At the end of the day life is a game of incomplete information, you can make all the right moves and still end up at the bad end of a bad deal.
 
It is my understanding that this was a 2 year experiment that ended as planned. So they didn't just "end" it, it was finished. Now they plan to sift through the data to draw conclusions and/or other facts to see how it worked.
 
cytg111 said:
I know that pattern as well, there is a great number of factors that can be stacked against an individual including medical diagnosis (asperger, adhd etc).
At the end of the day life is a game of incomplete information, you can make all the right moves and still end up at the bad end of a bad deal.
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Indeed. The person im referring too has severe depression, and despression creates anxiety. It's not easy.
 
sandorski said:
It is my understanding that this was a 2 year experiment that ended as planned. So they didn't just "end" it, it was finished. Now they plan to sift through the data to draw conclusions and/or other facts to see how it worked.
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That seemed to be the case. But don't let that pesky little tidbit get in the way of outrage.
 
ch33zw1z said:
It's certainly more specific than "30 year old living in his parents basement". See the difference? Nice projection though, as youre the person making assumptions using stereotyped stigma unless youre going to choose to present context. So the answer to your question should be clear now.
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At least you admit being intentionally obtuse in an attempt to bolster your point. There is no way in hell any normal person would take what I said to mean those unable to do anything other, unless they were being a asshole. You just can't resist attempting to make yourself out to be smarter than those you disagree with. All the wasted energy...
 
cytg111 said:
I think there is a a lot of assumptions in there, but even so, motivation by stigmatization sounds like a horrible idea.
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Stigmatization seems to always do the opposite of what people pushing it want it to do. Instead of encouraging people to come out of the shadows and address their problems, it just drives them further from society (a good example is mental illness).
 
FelixDeCat said:
The problem was weed. Why get a job when you simply suck on the government teet and get stoned all day?

Ban the weed worldwide and you will solve all our problems.
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Sure the problem wasnt premarital sex? Seems to me everything starting going downhill the moment people started fornicating left and right.. with animals too.
 
SNC said:
At least you admit being intentionally obtuse in an attempt to bolster your point. There is no way in hell any normal person would take what I said to mean those unable to do anything other, unless they were being a asshole. You just can't resist attempting to make yourself out to be smarter than those you disagree with. All the wasted energy...
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I hope you see the difference. For your own sake.

What's a normal person anyways? That type of language usage shows how you think, and why stereotyped stigmas are so easy for you to toss around.

To be normal, in your eyes, I need to accept easy packaged stereotyped stigmas at face value. Good to know.

Edit: and of course, the irony of other people "feeling smart" while you stereotype and stigmatize others based a single criteria to feel better about yourself is lost on you
 
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ch33zw1z said:
I hope you see the difference. For your own sake.

What's a normal person anyways? That type of language usage shows how you think, and why stereotyped stigmas are so easy for you to toss around.

To be normal, in your eyes, I need to accept easy packaged stereotyped stigmas at face value. Good to know.
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There you go again. I'm guessing it makes you feel good when you think you are teaching someone something. You profess t know way too fucking much about me to make the assumptions you are making.
When I say 'any normal person' I'm referring to anyone with enough common sense to apply context to a comment without having to have it spoon fed to them. Like this/URL]
 
cytg111 said:
Sure the problem wasnt premarital sex? Seems to me everything starting going downhill the moment people started fornicating left and right.. with animals too.
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It all started to go to shit when we stopped shooting horse thieves. sex has nothing to do with it.
 
SNC said:
There you go again. I'm guessing it makes you feel good when you think you are teaching someone something. You profess t know way too fucking much about me to make the assumptions you are making.
When I say 'any normal person' I'm referring to anyone with enough common sense to apply context to a comment without having to have it spoon fed to them. Like this/URL]
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ch33zw1z said:
I hope you see the difference. For your own sake.

What's a normal person anyways? That type of language usage shows how you think, and why stereotyped stigmas are so easy for you to toss around.

To be normal, in your eyes, I need to accept easy packaged stereotyped stigmas at face value. Good to know.

Edit: and of course, the irony of other people "feeling smart" while you stereotype and stigmatize others based a single criteria to feel better about yourself is lost on you
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Quick question; are you guys really of different minds on this or are you going toe to toe here "because he started it"? - Just wondering 🙂.
 
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