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finland and poland and baltic countries possibly at risk in the long run

A Russian invasion of Finland or Poland? Lol, if he does it quickly enough he might win Hillary the 2016 election by decisively proving her Hitler comparison.

Not to mention I don't see either of those two countries going quietly given their history with Russia, and there are no dense populations of ethnic Russians for Putin to claim either. For that matter I don't see Ukraine going quietly if Russia mounts a full-scale invasion.
 
irishScott said:
A Russian invasion of Finland or Poland? Lol, if he does it quickly enough he might win Hillary the 2016 election by decisively proving her Hitler comparison.

Not to mention I don't see either of those two countries going quietly given their history with Russia, and there are no dense populations of ethnic Russians for Putin to claim either. For that matter I don't see Ukraine going quietly if Russia mounts a full-scale invasion.
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same here

think 2016 is much too soon for this time scale

he seemed sane until the 2012 elections. after the lackluster result he seems fundamentalist with no caution
 
I work with several guys from Poland and they still have many ties there, honestly they aren't too hot on the EU to be honest.
 
MongGrel said:
I work with several guys from Poland and they still have many ties there, honestly they aren't too hot on the EU to be honest.
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The difference between Moscow and Brussels is that if Poland decide to leave the EU we aren't likely to roll into Warsaw in an armoured convoy and annex the place.
 
WelshBloke said:
The difference between Moscow and Brussels is that if Poland decide to leave the EU we aren't likely to roll into Warsaw in an armoured convoy and annex the place.
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Poland is a NATO country, EU or not.

I would *hope* that means something, unless NATO was just a big joke.
 
Zaap said:
Poland is a NATO country, EU or not.

I would *hope* that means something, unless NATO was just a big joke.
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🙂

I was just pointing out that dislike for the EU and dislike for Moscow usually come from different roots. Only one comes from the worry of being invaded.
 
WelshBloke said:
🙂

I was just pointing out that dislike for the EU and dislike for Moscow usually come from different roots. Only one comes from the worry of being invaded.
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True!

Sorry, my comment was really more about the threat from Moscow being nil as well; hopefully as a NATO state, everyone else has got their back. (Ditto the other Baltic countries that are in NATO).
 
do you guys think finland might join nato?

eu might be worth as much as nato as far as being protected from russia?

also note that poland hates both germany and russia but they are only afraid of russia right now as least militarily. there is something called betrayel of the west and maybe polish experience with the rest of europe might be why poland has sought the us as an ally although i would tell them not to expect any more out of the us than any other european country.

here is a former prime minister that was muscovite oriented

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Vanhanen

the current prime minister is more eu oriented

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyrki_Katainen

here is something i support. this allows them to avoid the corruption of both russia and the us

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NORDEFCO
 
welsh bloke what would you think about a independent wales?

what do you think about the upcoming referendum on scottish independence?
 
Finland, or Ukraine for that matter, joining NATO today would be similar to the guy who never paid for health insurance until the day he is diagnosed with cancer and now is begging to be accepted into a plan.

If Finland is invaded, I hope we send our military over to defend their borders, but dang it somewhere in there European citizens must be taught a lesson for portraying the U.S. as militaristic nation-invading war mongers when we are the ones also sworn to protect their nations and their hippie non-military attitudes.
 
Pocatello said:
Russia didn't become the largest country in the world by sitting on its ass and singing kumbaya.
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Russia became the largest country by taking control of uninhabitable lands no one else cared about.

They just got lucky with the natural resources that can now be extracted thanks to new technologies.
 
Pocatello said:
Russia didn't become the largest country in the world by sitting on its ass.
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has never even been close to the british empire so the point is refuted. look what has happened to the british empire in the last 200 years. putin is trying to assimilate vast areas of russia right now and given his discontent and lack of caution many ethnicities currently in russian rule might be able to break free from muscovite aggressive oppresion
 
cubby1223 said:
If Finland is invaded, I hope we send our military over to defend their borders, but dang it somewhere in there European citizens must be taught a lesson for portraying the U.S. as militaristic nation-invading war mongers when we are the ones also sworn to protect their nations and their hippie non-military attitudes.
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we did not get that moniker without any wrongdoing on our part

still finland is a country of the eu and the reason they and sweden did not join with nato would actually be complicated

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_Defence_Union
 
norseamd said:
welsh bloke what would you think about a independent wales?

what do you think about the upcoming referendum on scottish independence?
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I think Wales is much better off staying as part of the UK but I can see the argument for more devolved power. I'm not sure what Wales would gain by being an independent country but I can see a lot that it would lose.

I'm pretty much of the same opinion about Scottish independence but obviously that's up to the people of Scotland to chose.
I fully support them having a referendum and they should have the right to leave the Union if they want. I think they'd be mental to do it but it's their decision.
 
WelshBloke said:
I think Wales is much better off staying as part of the UK but I can see the argument for more devolved power. I'm not sure what Wales would gain by being an independent country but I can see a lot that it would lose.

I'm pretty much of the same opinion about Scottish independence but obviously that's up to the people of Scotland to chose.
I fully support them having a referendum and they should have the right to leave the Union if they want. I think they'd be mental to do it but it's their decision.
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what do you think about in the long term if wales is able to have a strong and sustainable economy if it leaves the union of great britain?
 
norseamd said:
has never even been close to the british empire so the point is refuted. look what has happened to the british empire in the last 200 years. putin is trying to assimilate vast areas of russia right now and given his discontent and lack of caution many ethnicities currently in russian rule might be able to break free from muscovite aggressive oppresion
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Both Russia and Great Britain expanded their empire by any mean necessary, so what is there to refute? Weaker tribes and nations got assimilated. It happened in the North and South America too so countries like the U.S and Brazil can be what they are today. Millions of people died or displaced. Great Britain is no longer a world power and has no desire to become so, while Russia isn't satisfied with the current situation. Putin still wants more, how much more?
 
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Pocatello said:
Both Russia and Great Britain expanded their empire by any mean necessary, so what is there to refute? Weaker tribes and nations got assimilated. It happened in the North and South America too so countries like the U.S and Brazil can be what they are today. Millions of people died or displaced. Great Britain is no longer a world power and has no desire to become so, while Russia isn't satisfied with the current situation. Putin still wants more, how much more?
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sorry i never finished writing that

what i meant is when putin falls many of the ethnicities in russia might be able to break free
 
norseamd said:
do you guys think finland might join nato?
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Maybe, but not likely and it would take years. The majority of the population is still against NATO-membership altho according to more recent polls made in March opinions are changing more favourable to NATO. Usually in polls 20-30 % are for NATO, 50-60 % are against.

There are parliamentary elections coming in 2015, foreign policy, security and NATO are probably more in the discussions now than in many previous elections. The parties supporting NATO-membership aren't going to try to hold a referendum on NATO before polls show that the majority are for joining the NATO even if they win the elections. There are four major parties in the parliament with 15-25 % of the votes each. No single party can do anything in the parliament on their own. It would be a small miracle if pro-NATO parties became a majority in the parliament. For the pro-NATO crowd they would need support from those parties divided on NATO to start pursuing NATO-membership. And they'd still need to win the referendum which would be another miracle.

Major parties:
National Coalition party: centre-right, liberal conservative, pro-NATO, pro-EU
Centre party: centrist, eurosceptic, anti-NATO
Social Democrats: centre-left, pro-EU, anti-NATO
The Finns party: populist conservative, anti-EU, divided on NATO

Minor parties:
Green party: environmentalist, centre-left, pro-EU, anti-NATO
Left Alliance: socialist, anti-EU, anti-NATO
Christian democrats: social conservative, don't know, don't care
Swedish People's party: liberal, pro-EU, pro-NATO
Left Alliance dissidents: old-school socialists, anti-everything
Change 2011: nutjob

The National Coalition and Centre parties are likely to win the elections and so they'll likely form the government along with a couple of minor parties. We'll see how people's opinions have changed after the elections but I don't see Finland joining NATO atleast in the next 10 years.

here is a former prime minister that was muscovite oriented

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Vanhanen

the current prime minister is more eu oriented

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyrki_Katainen

here is something i support. this allows them to avoid the corruption of both russia and the us

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NORDEFCO
Click to expand...
Vanhanen was very much EU-oriented.
 
cubby1223 said:
Finland, or Ukraine for that matter, joining NATO today would be similar to the guy who never paid for health insurance until the day he is diagnosed with cancer and now is begging to be accepted into a plan.

If Finland is invaded, I hope we send our military over to defend their borders, but dang it somewhere in there European citizens must be taught a lesson for portraying the U.S. as militaristic nation-invading war mongers when we are the ones also sworn to protect their nations and their hippie non-military attitudes.
Click to expand...

Finland couldn't join NATO or the EU during the Cold War. Finland was neutral during Cold War but we we're under heavy Soviet pressure which can still be seen in Finnish politics and opinions. The Soviet Union spread its propaganda to Finland and it was very much anti-NATO, anti-west, pro-Soviet. Most people saw through that propaganda but it still left a mark, the majority still are against NATO-membership. Also Finland is very much not with a "hippie non-military attitude". 80 % of Finnish males serve in the military. 😉 The NATO is not only the US. Most of our neighbours and friendly countries to us are in NATO. If we we're in NATO it'd still be our responsibility to defend our borders in case of war but there'd be more deterrence that no war would come.
 
MongGrel said:
I work with several guys from Poland and they still have many ties there, honestly they aren't too hot on the EU to be honest.
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Nobody is fond of the EU really. Besides maybe the Germans.

That has nothing to do with them being part of NATO though and not wanting a Russian invasion.
 
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