Finally, Stop and Frisk ends

[fskimospy]

Actually, what YOU need to do is reread my post:


In other words, I addressed the TWO problems in my post: racial profiling AND when a search is reasonable.

NY Police merely have to do stop and frisk in a way that doesn't target minorities more often than statistics say they should.

While I see your parenthetical statement that followed, this incorrectly frames the issue into only a 14th amendment violation, which it definitely is not. If that wasn't your intent, so be it.

 

[fskimospy]

Which is why this is a pathetic ruling.
Minorities commit more crimes in New York thus they should be stopped more.

Why don't you go learn something about the ruling before saying stupid things.

 

[SheHateMe]

Which is why this is a pathetic ruling.
Minorities commit more crimes in New York thus they should be stopped more.

I get it...Minorities commit more crimes in NY, therefore all Minorities are criminals.

If we stop them all, maybe we can reach our quota for the day!

 

[Patranus]

I get it...Minorities commit more crimes in NY, therefore all Minorities are criminals.

If we stop them all, maybe we can reach our quota for the day!

Where did I say that???

The benchmark of 'stop and frisk' should not be statistics which index against percentage of population rather indexed against crime rates.

 

[glenn1]

I get it...Minorities commit more crimes in NY, therefore all Minorities are criminals.

If we stop them all, maybe we can reach our quota for the day!

All minorities, of course not. On average, yes - blame those damn racist statistics that bear this out. No one should need to pander to the poor sensibilities of you or anyone else when discussing factual things in a non-judgemental way.

 

[TerryMathews]

Why on earth would you think they aren't using it? Of course they are using it, but there's no evidence they are using it on US citizens. If you aren't a US citizen or on US soil you have never had any protections from US surveillance whatsoever as everyone should well know.

If evidence does come out that says differently that would be one thing, but predicating your argument on the hope that something might later show up that supports you is a bad idea.

Except Snowden.

It's not like I'm predicating it on nothing. He says it's happening, and his leaks prove his credibility to me.

 

[fskimospy]

Where did I say that???

The benchmark of 'stop and frisk' should not be statistics which index against percentage of population rather indexed against crime rates.

How about the benchmark shouldn't be either. More than 90% of those frisked were not guilty of any crime and more importantly, only 13% of those frisked were done so based on a description for a crime.

Furthermore, the opinion directly addresses your argument starting on page 52. Here is the money quote though.

Crime suspect data may serve as a reliable proxy for the pool of criminals
exhibiting suspicious behavior. But there is no reason to believe that crime suspect data
provides a reliable proxy for the pool of non-criminals exhibiting suspicious behavior. Because
the overwhelming majority of people stopped fell into the latter category, there is no support for
the City’s position that crime suspect data provides a reliable proxy for the pool of people
exhibiting suspicious behavior. Moreover, given my finding that a significant number of stops
were not based on reasonable suspicion — and thus were stops drawn from the pool of noncriminals not exhibiting suspicious behavior — the use of crime suspect data as a benchmark for
the pool of people that would have been stopped in the absence of racial bias is even less
appropriate.

 

[Paul98]

Which is why this is a pathetic ruling.
Minorities commit more crimes in New York thus they should be stopped more.

Target minorities at a much higher rate than others, thus catch them doing illegal things at a much higher rate than others. So minorities are found to commit more crimes than others. We have so many laws on the books, everyone can be found doing something illegal. If the cops target one group much more than another you will find more criminals in one group over another. Especially if you are looking for certain things. Now certain ones will commit crimes at higher rates, but not because of race.

 

[Linux23]

I get it...Minorities commit more crimes in NY, therefore all Minorities are criminals.

If we stop them all, maybe we can reach our quota for the day!

Hell, i'm a minority in NY, and I go to the nearest precinct each day and have them do a full body search because, you know, i'm bound to commit a crime soon so....

 

[Svnla]

ABC News did a story about this policy a few months ago (May 2013) and this is what the NYPD Commissioner Kelly said.

In a rare interview on the topic, Kelly told "Nightline" that the racial breakdown of the statistics is misleading.

"It makes no sense to use census data, because half the people you stop would be women," Kelly said. "About 70 percent to 75 percent of the people described as committing violent crimes -- assault, robbery, shootings, grand larceny -- are described as being African American.

"The percentage of people who are stopped is 53 percent African American," he continued. "So really, African Americans are being under stopped in relation to the percentage of people being described as being the perpetrators of violent crime. The stark reality is that a crime happens in communities of color."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/nypds-cont...-racial-profiling-proactive/story?id=19084229

 

[werepossum]

Which is why this is a pathetic ruling.
Minorities commit more crimes in New York thus they should be stopped more.

I don't think you can use that as a criterion for stopping minorities. If I understand this ruling, the judge is requiring that the police develop more stringent criteria for stopping and frisking. That only makes sense. The behavior of other people who happen to share my skin color is not a valid rationale for stopping and frisking me because as an American I have a Constitutional right to NOT be stopped and frisked absent some evidence that I am committing or have committed a crime.

It is often difficult for us persons of pallor to understand why this is a big deal, just submit and go about your way. An equivalent would be bank embezzlement, whose criminal class is overwhelmingly white. If white people were being routinely financially audited to determine whether we had embezzled any funds we'd be up in arms - not because it is necessarily that much of an inconvenience, but because of the assumption of probable cause without rational basis. Nobody wants to have to prove he is not a criminal.

Of course, with the NSA these worries are rapidly becoming obsolete. Of course government is treating you like a criminal, they treat everybody that way.

 

[SheHateMe]

Where did I say that???

The benchmark of 'stop and frisk' should not be statistics which index against percentage of population rather indexed against crime rates.

You said we should be stopped more. I'd like to know how you'd achieve the numbers you were looking for without assuming that all of us are potentially guilty of something.

All minorities, of course not. On average, yes - blame those damn racist statistics that bear this out. No one should need to pander to the poor sensibilities of you or anyone else when discussing factual things in a non-judgemental way.

So, you agree that its OK to racially profile, then? Since on average, many of us have been reported criminals? How would you feel if the cops stopped you just because you fit a description? How would you feel if they stopped you and frisked you for that same reason? What about a random traffic stop?

You can try and say I can't handle the stats all you want. The point I'm making is that stats have shit to do with ME. I am a person, I have civil rights, and I don't deserve to be stopped and searched (and mistreated) by the cops just because they are looking for more black people to arrest.

Hell, i'm a minority in NY, and I go to the nearest precinct each day and have them do a full body search because, you know, i'm bound to commit a crime soon so....

Yep, they have to make sure we aren't up to anything. You know how sneaky we are. They SHOULD be stopping us more.

 

[Svnla]

The tittle of this thread is wrong. The frisk and search is not finished or banned per NBC Nightly News.

 

[michal1980]

should've been banned. but much more on the 4th amendment grounds then feel good 'they are racists' excuse.

 

[Patranus]

You said we should be stopped more. I'd like to know how you'd achieve the numbers you were looking for without assuming that all of us are potentially guilty of something.

I can do this all day. *The data is freely available.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downlo...planning/2012_year_end_enforcement_report.pdf

 

[SheHateMe]

--

Play stupid all you want. Werepossum already pinged you for it, so, I'm done.

I don't think you can use that as a criterion for stopping minorities. If I understand this ruling, the judge is requiring that the police develop more stringent criteria for stopping and frisking. That only makes sense. The behavior of other people who happen to share my skin color is not a valid rationale for stopping and frisking me because as an American I have a Constitutional right to NOT be stopped and frisked absent some evidence that I am committing or have committed a crime.

 

[Patranus]

Play stupid all you want. Werepossum already pinged you for it, so, I'm done.

Was just finishing my post.
You can argue your bullshit all you want but the cold hard facts are on my side.

Go check out the report released by the city and you can clearly see the blacks and hispanics make up the vast majority of criminals in the city while making up the minority of the population.

 

[SheHateMe]

Was just finishing my post.
You can argue your bullshit all you want but the cold hard facts are on my side.

Excuse me, wasn't aware that it is considered bullshit to be against racial profiling.

Like I said, Werepossum already said to you what needed to be said. So, you can keep pretending like there is legitimate reason to allow cops to harass minorities without evidence of any wrong doing all you want.

Im not even sure you understand what racial profiling means, since you keep arguing your support for it with statistics about crime. Yes, we get it....x% of crimes were committed by blacks. Now, get it through your thick skull that this does not mean that x% of blacks are probably criminals and therefore should be randomly stopped and frisked by the cops just to make sure they aren't up to no good.

Perhaps, it would be a lot more understandable if it was your race that was targeted by this racial profiling.

If the cops don't feel like they are catching enough criminals, maybe they need to do better police work.

 

[Lanyap]

I wonder how long it would last if they stopped and frisked rich white people on Wallstreet.

 

[BlueWolf47]

I wonder how long it would last if they stopped and frisked rich white people on Wallstreet.

I don't know, but i bet they would find a shit load of cocaine.

 

[michal1980]

I wonder how long it would last if they stopped and frisked rich white people on Wallstreet.

because wallstreet white dudes are committing the majority of the crimes?

Libs just want to turn on their brains when it comes to profiling. Just ignore the facts of life and live in your everyone is the same bubble.

 

[BlueWolf47]

because wallstreet white dudes are committing the majority of the crimes?

Libs just want to turn on their brains when it comes to profiling. Just ignore the facts of life and live in your everyone is the same bubble.

Do you read your posts before submitting them? Your incomplete sentence structure makes it hard to navigate the random incoherent thoughts that seem to leak out of your ass.

 

[NoStateofMind]

A little less pressure on our necks doesn't equate to boot removal.

 

[glenn1]

Perhaps, it would be a lot more understandable if it was your race that was targeted by this racial profiling.

If the cops don't feel like they are catching enough criminals, maybe they need to do better police work.

Actually, if I were a New Yorker (which I would never, ever be) then I'd prefer that police not expend any resources in majority black areas at all. So long as blacks mainly continue to target each other then by all means halt any attempts to profile and stop-and-frisk.

 

[Bird222]

because wallstreet white dudes are committing the majority of the crimes?

No, just the biggest crimes. Too bad it's going to take more than a frisk to stop it though.