Finally... More Young Americans Who 'Believe' in Evolution Than Creationism

[pcgeek11]

Yes you did, right here:



You propose:

1: God uses evolution as a tool
2: evolution has no goal
3: God has a goal

therefore....evolution didn't have a goal but god did...therefore....you aren't making any sense. If God created and used a tool to expressly arrive at the goal that god wanted, then the tool obviously has a goal. The logic is airtight, but you both make the argument, dismiss your argument in one sentence, then claim it brilliant, regarldless, and call me a fool for realizing how stupid you sound.

Anyway, if you believe evolution to have no goal (which you don't) there is no purpose for God. Certainly not one that gives a shit about you or me, anyway. ...in which case, why bother believing in such a god?

You simply can't have "an opinion" of how evolution works. Do you argue that the function of gravity is dependent on the strength of your opinion? How about the wavelength of indigo? Is that beholden to your opinion?

Make no mistake: I really have no problem with a belief in God or Cthulu or Pan or whatever makes you happy. I actually think these things are pretty cool. But don't be foolish enough to confuse empirical evidence with faith-driven belief, and wantonly decide when you can mix the two to support some barely-cogent system of belief that you clearly don't understand.

I said I believe that God used evolution as a tool to create. What is the end goal or does he even have an end goal? I do not know and neither do you. Tools do not have goals they are tools.Does a hammer have a goal?

You only want to discredit my belief with your opinions. Which is fine I don't really care.

 

[WelshBloke]

I said I believe that God used evolution as a tool to create. What is the end goal or does he even have an end goal? I do not know and neither do you. Tools do not have goals they are tools.Does a hammer have a goal?

You only want to discredit my belief with your opinions. Which is fine I don't really care.

OK. In what way did he use evolution? How did he affect the natural process?

 

[GagHalfrunt]

I said I believe that God used evolution as a tool to create. What is the end goal or does he even have an end goal? I do not know and neither do you. Tools do not have goals they are tools.Does a hammer have a goal?

The hammer doesn't have a goal, the person swinging it does.

You're constantly contradicting yourself (and given the sad state of the drivel you say, small wonder) about whether or not god has a goal. You claim he does, then you claim he doesn't. Pick one pile of shit to fling against the wall, don't use every pile.

Now please explain to those of us with brains how evolution can be a "tool". Is your invisible man intentionally creating species that are ill-adapted to survive and doomed to extinction or is your invisible man too stupid to foresee which species are ill-adapted to survive and doomed to extinction? It's simple enough that even you *should* be able to understand it. If evolution is a "tool" then it is being used with a goal and the invisible man has an end result in mind. And if the invisible man has an end result in mind he would not need evolution to get there. If he does not have a goal in mind and has no idea on where things are going then he is not a god and evolution is not a "tool", it's a child's plaything.

 

[pcgeek11]

OK. In what way did he use evolution? How did he affect the natural process?

Like I could answer those questions...

Maybe God is the natural process...

 

[pcgeek11]

The hammer doesn't have a goal, the person swinging it does.

You're constantly contradicting yourself about whether or not god has a goal. You claim he does, then you claim he doesn't. Pick one pile of shit to fling against the wall, don't use every pile.

Now please explain to those of us with brains how evolution can be a "tool". Is your invisible man intentionally creating species that are ill-adapted to survive and doomed to extinction or is your invisible man too stupid to foresee which species are ill-adapted to survive and doomed to extinction? It's simple enough that even you *should* be able to understand it. If evolution is a "tool" then it is being used with a goal and the invisible man has an end result in mind. And if the invisible man has an end result in mind he would not need evolution to get there. If he does not have a goal in mind and has no idea on where things are going then he is not a god and evolution is not a "tool", it's a child's plaything.

No, I didn't contradict anything. I said evolution doesn't have a goal as it was a tool used by God for creation. I never said if God did or did not have a Goal as I do not know.

Since you have a brain figure it out for yourself. I'm not going to go back and forth with you while you spew your crap around. It isn't my fault you are a Godless Heathen.

 

[WelshBloke]

Like I could answer those questions...

Maybe God is the natural process...

Well if you dont know the answet to those questions how do you know he had anything to do with it?

 

[ch33zw1z]

i speculate God farted, that was the big bang, and we live on a particle thay exited his bum.

eventually he came back to clean up the mess, realized there was life on this particle of poo, lol'd and started trolling us....and really didnt like the Hebrews. They were chosen the same way a bully picks a target.

 

[Fritzo]

I believe in both. Creation via evolution.

This isn't out of the realm of possibility. Humans need an explanation for everything- our brains are wired this way. The concept of a "God" is a placeholder for "I can't explain that." We're at a point in human history where we have reasonable explanations for everything all the way back to the first micro-seconds of the creation of the universe. Unless we can make a discovery to say otherwise, it's not wrong to speculate God may have created the universe, and we're a result of the physical laws he laid forth.

From what we can observe, the universe we're in is very unlikely. One of its main forces- gravity - should be a LOT stronger than it actually is. For some reason most of the gravitational force is leaking off somewhere. If gravity were only a tiny bit stronger or a tiny bit weaker, the physical laws of the universe would not allow us to exist. We're in a seemingly unlikely "Goldilocks" reality. There is no explanation for why this is. If we are in a multi-verse reality, we may just be incredibly lucky. If we are in the only universe, there may be something regulating physical laws. A supreme being is as likely as any other explanation at that point. We may never know for sure.

 

[amdhunter]

I'm God. When I die, all of you will cease to exist.

 

[pcgeek11]

Well if you dont know the answet to those questions how do you know he had anything to do with it?

I didn't say that I Knew ...

That is my belief. As evolution is undeniable and I belief there is a force much greater at work in the grand scheme.

How do you Know that God didn't have anything to do with it. It works both ways.

 

[pcgeek11]

This isn't out of the realm of possibility. Humans need an explanation for everything- our brains are wired this way. The concept of a "God" is a placeholder for "I can't explain that." We're at a point in human history where we have reasonable explanations for everything all the way back to the first micro-seconds of the creation of the universe. Unless we can make a discovery to say otherwise, it's not wrong to speculate God may have created the universe, and we're a result of the physical laws he laid forth.

From what we can observe, the universe we're in is very unlikely. One of its main forces- gravity - should be a LOT stronger than it actually is. For some reason most of the gravitational force is leaking off somewhere. If gravity were only a tiny bit stronger or a tiny bit weaker, the physical laws of the universe would not allow us to exist. We're in a seemingly unlikely "Goldilocks" reality. There is no explanation for why this is. If we are in a multi-verse reality, we may just be incredibly lucky. If we are in the only universe, there may be something regulating physical laws. A supreme being is as likely as any other explanation at that point. We may never know for sure.

Well said. There are so many things that just so happened to be exactly right. In many opinions way too many.

 

[WelshBloke]

How do you Know that God didn't have anything to do with it. It works both ways.

There isn't really a god shaped gap in evolution.

 

[pcgeek11]

There isn't really a god shaped gap in evolution.

That makes no sense to me. Care to define this better? Why would there be a gap in evolution at all and would we be able to see it is there was.

 

[WelshBloke]

That makes no sense to me. Care to define this better? Why would there be a gap in evolution at all and would we be able to see it is there was.

Theres no point in the process that shows any evidence of diddling by mysterious arcane figures.

 

[pcgeek11]

Theres no point in the process that shows any evidence of diddling by mysterious arcane figures.

None that we can recognize anyway. Just because you don't or can't detect it doesn't mean that it isn't there.

 

[WelshBloke]

None that we can recognize anyway. Just because you don't or can't detect it doesn't mean that it isn't there.

If something is undetectable how can it have an effect on a physical process?

 

[Mai72]

What about option 3

3) You die. That's it. There is no blackness. Nothing.

IMO, this is a much more plausible reality. Do you remember what was going on 5000 years ago? Or, a million. Of course not. But, your ego won't let you think like that.

There has to be a God. Why? Do you really think you're going to see your parents on the other side? I grew up Catholic. We were told that the other side is this magical place with rainbows and that you'll live in a nice little house overlooking a hill for ever and ever. That's if you're good of course. The other side is hell. That is where the crazies go. You don't want to go there

As I've gotten older I've come to realize it's nonsense. It's the ego that is keeping you from believing the truth. The truth Which is nothing more than your thoughts which you are so attached too. And, biological impulses that your body is going thru. That's it IMO.

 

[1prophet]

If something is undetectable how can it have an effect on a physical process?

Like Dark matter/energy?

 

[zinfamous]

I said I believe that God used evolution as a tool to create. What is the end goal or does he even have an end goal? I do not know and neither do you. Tools do not have goals they are tools.Does a hammer have a goal?

You only want to discredit my belief with your opinions. Which is fine I don't really care.

well, just say that your god isn't in any way interested in you or any other humans. That is kinda what you are saying right here, isn't it? That is really the only way to cram an "Evolution as God's tool" argument in there, and actually understand the first thing about evolution.

That's fine and all, but again, the next obvious answer is why believe in such a god? Of course you can tell me to pound sand in response and that's perfectly fine--I'm actually just curious about such a belief.

 

[zinfamous]

Well said. There are so many things that just so happened to be exactly right. In many opinions way too many.

in many opinions, yes. Such people that hold this idea as opinion, though, are deniers of solid scientific rigor. It can be no other way. Again, that is your opinion. Just don't confuse your opinion as something that is equally as valid as actual scientific observation and testing.

But it is not in any way an opinion that the improbability and current direction of evolution fit perfectly well within the framework of known existence (age of earth, biological rates of mutations and selective forces over time, etc).

 

[zinfamous]

I didn't say that I Knew ...

That is my belief. As evolution is undeniable and I belief there is a force much greater at work in the grand scheme.

How do you Know that God didn't have anything to do with it. It works both ways.

The current best response to this is the fact that we have ample, testable, observable evidence for evolution. As you say, it is completely undeniable. We don't yet have any evidence for god, and never will. God is something that is not bound by scientific methods, hence it just isn't part of the discussion. It is something else. Until we know precisely how life sprang from that soup and what sparked it, there will always be those that assume God. God is certainly unlikely, but God prohibits testing anyway, so it isn't a scientific issue. It's one of philosophy. I honestly don't begrudge anyone thinking in such a way, but the hazard here is conflating non-scientific mysticism with rigorous scientific theory.

 

[WelshBloke]

Like Dark matter/energy?

No, not really at all.

 

[Fritzo]

in many opinions, yes. Such people that hold this idea as opinion, though, are deniers of solid scientific rigor. It can be no other way. Again, that is your opinion. Just don't confuse your opinion as something that is equally as valid as actual scientific observation and testing.

But it is not in any way an opinion that the improbability and current direction of evolution fit perfectly well within the framework of known existence (age of earth, biological rates of mutations and selective forces over time, etc).

There are more than opinions. For example, China's new Dark Matter satellite just compiled 18 months of data a few weeks ago and concluded that there is virtually no difference in the properties of matter and anti-matter. Both types of particles should have been generated equally during the Big Bang, yet we're surrounded by matter today. Where did the anti-matter go? By all rights, nothing should exist.

 

[John Connor]

I like how the atheists think they know there is no God. Then proced to use the judicial system to tear down a religion. That by definition is Nazism.

 

[sandorski]

I like how the atheists think they know there is no God. Then proced to use the judicial system to tear down a religion. That by definition is Nazism.

Ridiculous.