Finally Boehner is be rational, clean debt ceiling increase being voted on

[kurosenpai]

I had a more detailed reply but it got lost. Let me sum it up for you:

• US Voter = sheeple
• US Politicians = re-election must happen at all costs (costs seldom if ever realized in any meaningful way by said Politician)
• Spending = crumbs thrown to sheeple to ensure they are placated...non-placated sheeple are not sheeple, they're aware and generally dissatisfied voting citizens.
• Dissatisfied voting citizens threaten re-election
• Dissatisfied businesses and interest groups that spent big bucks on Politician re-election compaings threaten re-election.

So given the above, what do you think Politicians do? They spend. They spend money they have and should be spent, they spend money they have that shouldn't be spent, they spend money they don't have but will, they spend money they don't have and never will. Eventually, because they need to keep those crumbs flowing (can you imagine the affect on sheeple/businesses/interests if people on public handouts can't buy Pepsi or Cheetos, or if the Air Force transports the Air Force says it doesn't need being purposefully sourced from multiple congressional districts aren't built?), they run up against this debt ceiling. When this happens, which would normally trigger panic, alarm, and a forced change of ways in normal circumstances for basically any entity other than the US Fed gov, what do you think happens?

The ceiling is simply raised, and the bad spending habits keep right on happening (because the debt ceiling was raised this time to keep the crumbs flowing, and it'll be raised next time to keep the crumbs flowing).

The End.

wait, are you saying, this is like an endless circle of debt? when they spend like crazy and when the debt is too high? they just raise the debt ceiling? its like when your house is full of furnitures till it touches the ceiling, but rather than removing the furniture, you just build a higher ceiling, its gonna blow one day i think. is this like done on purpose?

 

[etrigan420]

it just blows the mind of the left that there are some people in this country that want government to rain in spending and stop continually spending more and more money.

The idea of not spending more and more money, just does not enter the brain of someone on the left.

the left be makin' it reign up in hur...

<CAPS>

 

[IronWing]

wait, are you saying, this is like an endless circle of debt? when they spend like crazy and when the debt is too high? they just raise the debt ceiling? its like when your house is full of furnitures till it touches the ceiling, but rather than removing the furniture, you just build a higher ceiling, its gonna blow one day i think. is this like done on purpose?

No, failure to raise the debt ceiling is like deciding not to pay the bill after enjoying the meal. The money is already spent. Folks who would rather not raise the debt ceiling are simply out to stiff the creditors.

 

[michal1980]

No, failure to raise the debt ceiling is like deciding not to pay the bill after enjoying the meal. The money is already spent. Folks who would rather not raise the debt ceiling are simply out to stiff the creditors.

no.

They can always cut spending.


See the left is so stuck on stupid, they think the only option is to raise spending.

 

[IronWing]

no.

They can always cut spending.


See the left is so stuck on stupid, they think the only option is to raise spending.

Nope, we could raise taxes as well.

 

[Jhhnn]

Nope, we could raise taxes as well.

Blasphemer! Burn the Blasphemer!

 

[Jhhnn]

no.

They can always cut spending.


See the left is so stuck on stupid, they think the only option is to raise spending.

And the time to cut spending is when funds are appropriated. This isn't rocket science.

 

[kurosenpai]

after ive done some reading on this matter(sorry for butting in your country business, its just that raising the debt ceiling just tickles my curious bone) America's debt is 15 trilliom and the unemployed citizen is like millions, if people dont work, and debt is high and rising, theres a huge spike in the debt graph, how can they keep on raising the debt ceiling? if dollar goes down, lots of other country's economy will go down together as dollar is the world currency.

 

[thraashman]

And the time to cut spending is when funds are appropriated. This isn't rocket science.

Except when you're talking to certain people (like the one you're quoting) for whom the most basics of rational thought IS as difficult as rocket science.

 

[FerrelGeek]

And the time to cut spending is when funds are appropriated. This isn't rocket science.

Except when you're talking to certain people (like the one you're quoting) for whom the most basics of rational thought IS as difficult as rocket science.

That gets back to chucky's post, quoted at the top of the page. Part of why people hate congress but love their comgressperson is that they bring home the bacon. No one wants to cut spending and only the dems want to raise taxes - on other people.

We're screwed.

 

[fskimospy]

after ive done some reading on this matter(sorry for butting in your country business, its just that raising the debt ceiling just tickles my curious bone) America's debt is 15 trilliom and the unemployed citizen is like millions, if people dont work, and debt is high and rising, theres a huge spike in the debt graph, how can they keep on raising the debt ceiling? if dollar goes down, lots of other country's economy will go down together as dollar is the world currency.

You are confusing the debt ceiling with government spending when they are not the same thing.

The easiest analogy would be that the budget appropriations bills are like ordering food at a restaurant. The debt ceiling is deciding on whether or not to pay the bill when it arrives. Not raising the debt ceiling is like running out of the restaurant when the waiter has their back turned.

 

[michal1980]

You are confusing the debt ceiling with government spending when they are not the same thing.

The easiest analogy would be that the budget appropriations bills are like ordering food at a restaurant. The debt ceiling is deciding on whether or not to pay the bill when it arrives. Not raising the debt ceiling is like running out of the restaurant when the waiter has their back turned.

wrong just wrong.


If true then it would be a one time bump and then we would just pay as we go along for the rest of the bill.

Instead we get an increase in the credit limit, and then for then next 12 months continue to spend more and more until we run into the limit.


It would be like maxing out your card after going to dinner. Then going out to the bar to get some drinks.

You can always cut out the drinks to not run even more debt.


But thats foreign to the left.

 

[DominionSeraph]

wrong just wrong.


If true then it would be a one time bump and then we would just pay as we go along for the rest of the bill.

Instead we get an increase in the credit limit, and then for then next 12 months continue to spend more and more until we run into the limit.

Christ you're slow. The next year's budget is what sets the budget for the next year.

 

[michal1980]

Christ you're slow. The next year's budget is what sets the budget for the next year.

Thanks for calling the president slow

"'The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that "the buck stops here." Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.'
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/debtlimit.asp#dqxs5fR3lCgLpLkI.99"

 

[fskimospy]

wrong just wrong.


If true then it would be a one time bump and then we would just pay as we go along for the rest of the bill.

Instead we get an increase in the credit limit, and then for then next 12 months continue to spend more and more until we run into the limit.


It would be like maxing out your card after going to dinner. Then going out to the bar to get some drinks.

You can always cut out the drinks to not run even more debt.


But thats foreign to the left.

This response is a non sequitur. The wisdom (or lack thereof) of increasing the debt in no way changes what the debt ceiling is. Increasing the debt ceiling allows the government to pay for things it has already ordered. That's just a fact.

Now economics tells us that running up more debt is smart, but even if you want to go against economics you should have a clear understanding of the terms under discussion.

 

[michal1980]

This response is a non sequitur. The wisdom (or lack thereof) of increasing the debt in no way changes what the debt ceiling is. Increasing the debt ceiling allows the government to pay for things it has already ordered. That's just a fact.

Now economics tells us that running up more debt is smart, but even if you want to go against economics you should have a clear understanding of the terms under discussion.

Lets just run the debt to infinity. Lets just spend another 15 trillion over night. Its the smart thing to do.

according to fools.

 

[fskimospy]

Lets just run the debt to infinity. Lets just spend another 15 trillion over night. Its the smart thing to do.

according to fools.

That's not even a good straw man. You can do better.

 

[BUnit1701]

You are confusing the debt ceiling with government spending when they are not the same thing.

The easiest analogy would be that the budget appropriations bills are like ordering food at a restaurant. The debt ceiling is deciding on whether or not to pay the bill when it arrives. Not raising the debt ceiling is like running out of the restaurant when the waiter has their back turned.

No, its not. The budget process is like deciding to go to the resturaunt. The appropriations process is like paying for the dinner on your debit card knowing full well there is no money in the account. The debt celing is going to get a big loan so the e-check doesn't bounce.

 

[cubby1223]

Now economics tells us that running up more debt is smart, but even if you want to go against economics you should have a clear understanding of the terms under discussion.

So long as people are willing to buy the debt at stupidly low interest payouts for you to pay out to the previous group of debt holders, then I guess your argument stands.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Nope, we could raise taxes as well.

What would we be trying to accomplish by increasing both spending and taxes?

 

[shadow9d9]

^Oh brother, not this revisionist bullshit again. This time with even more made-up, oversimplified bullshit! LOL!

Give it a rest already. The Democrat party's record on race absolutely stinks- stop trying to pawn it off on Republicans.

Conservatives have a shit record on race. Moderates don't. Party names don't matter.

 

[fskimospy]

No, its not. The budget process is like deciding to go to the resturaunt. The appropriations process is like paying for the dinner on your debit card knowing full well there is no money in the account. The debt celing is going to get a big loan so the e-check doesn't bounce.

So you're agreeing with me. It's deciding to pay the bill that you already ran up. Thanks!

 

[Matt1970]

Yes the sequester was Obama's idea as a way to force Congress to work together to actually come up with legitimate spending cuts. He clearly underestimated the level of dysfunction the Tea Party has brought to Congress.

Obama had no intentions of cutting any spending.

 

[fskimospy]

Obama had no intentions of cutting any spending.

I really wish this were the case. Sadly Obama has not gone as far as he should have in ramping up spending to deal with the economic crisis. It's one of the biggest issues I've had with his presidency.

 

[berzerker60]

only the dems want to raise taxes - on other people.

Why do you think that? I want to raise taxes on myself, too. Sure, the tiny percentage who literally own the majority of America should pay more too, since they get more out of their taxes than the rest of us and the marginal utility of a dollar is far lower than the rest, but we all should have higher taxes, structured progressively.

What are we be trying to accomplish by increasing both spending and taxes?

Spending increases naturally because America grows naturally. More people + same spending per person (or even slightly more efficient spending per person = growth in the amount of dollars spent. Happily, those new workers also have jobs and pay greater tax revenue. Increasing government spending at the rate of the growth of America is like getting a raise each year to keep up with inflation - it's not really a raise at all, it's just adjusting to the cost of living, and if it didn't happen you would effectively be taking a pay cut each year.

Now, there are separate arguments for what can be accomplished by having more government spending relative to this 'natural' growth rate, and for raising the overall rate of taxation. But the baseline should be that government is always growing in absolute terms simply because America is always growing in absolute terms.