Finally back from Sudan and I have some thoughts...

[tynopik]

and yet One third of British Muslim students say it's acceptable to kill for Islam

(and that jumps to 60% for members of Islamic societies)

 

[AnthroAndStargate]

Originally posted by: Whitecloak
the problem is not with the decent people but with the whackos which islam seems to generate.

Just like the crazy Christians who try to pipe bomb abortion clinics. Whackos aren't the byproduct of just one religion.

 

[tynopik]

Originally posted by: AnthroAndStargate

Originally posted by: Whitecloak
the problem is not with the decent people but with the whackos which islam seems to generate.

Just like the crazy Christians who try to pipe bomb abortion clinics. Whackos aren't the byproduct of just one religion.

it does come down to numbers

how many abortion clinic bombers have there been EVER?

maybe two?

and they were both individuals without any support

yet in the islamic world, how many terrorists have they produced?

and even beyond the actual perpetrators they have HUGE, widespread support among the populace

they have entire organizations that raise millions of dollars solely to support terrorism

there is NOTHING comparable in the christian world

there are no christian groups recruiting, training and arming members to attack local muslim targets

it just doesn't happen

when was the last time muslim girls were beheaded on their way to school simply for being muslim?

never

if you aren't familiar with the situation in indonesia here's a good link

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: clamum

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: clamum
People who blame all evils on Islam, or thing that most Muslims are terrorists... these people really have no fucking clue what they're talking about. Rednecks. Ignorance -> fear -> hate.

You're right, I'm ignoring the daily suicide bombings everywhere in the world except northern Africa and the middle east. Erm, oh wait... that kinda... doesn't hold any water, does it? Put the peace pipe down Cheech, and be a little more realistic.

What part of my post do you not agree with, exactly? Islam is main cause of bad things in the world, or that most Muslims are terrorists?

"Agree", "Disagree"... such strong terms when all I'm doing is laughing at your rose-tinted and entirely wrong interpretation of the world.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Whitecloak
the problem is not with the decent people but with the whackos which islam seems to generate.

And the decent people's lack of desire to reign in the whackos.

Westboro Church people can still picket with their "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" and "God Hates Fags" signs.

We've got our own home-grown crazies here, too.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: xSauronx

Originally posted by: Farang
A lot of people don't realize that Muslim culture is actually one of the most hospitable around. I also remember being very shocked when I came across this, but every person I've met who has been to Iran it is always said to have the friendliest people by far.

i read a good national geographic article about Iran recently...from the article it sounds like even a lot of the people dont agree with the strict, fundamentalist mentality of their government.

yes. this is what some would call a well-known fact; but you wouldn't consider it as such as we depend on the general media to endorse such "well-known facts."

Pretty pathetic, really.

Iran has a very young culture. Many of the 20-30 year-old's have the same desires, ideals, world-views as the ave American post-college citizen, and are very supportive of American culture.

All we see on teh news is Ahmedinijad, and a few re-hashed images of the same street corner in Tehran where the culture hasn't changed since 1973.

 

[tynopik]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Whitecloak
the problem is not with the decent people but with the whackos which islam seems to generate.

And the decent people's lack of desire to reign in the whackos.

Westboro Church people can still picket with their "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" and "God Hates Fags" signs.

We've got our own home-grown crazies here, too.

you're comparing picketing to beheading

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: magomago

and we tend to blame everything on Islam

It is a shame really, because I am an ignorant asshat.

Thank you, OP, for enlightening me on my ignorant douchebag mentality. I now hope to do more with my life by educating those around me who my also be ignorant to the world as filtered through the populist agenda-driven partisan hacks that I listen to on a daily basis. You know, those folks who are as willing to exploit a guy like me for their own power gain just as extremist terrorists are able to exploit impoverished people of faith for their own twisted agendas.

Thank you, OP. You have truly opened my eyes. I will now teach myself how to read; so that I can actually learn on my own! rather than have porcine news radio gasbags feed me the information that they feel I should blindly accept as rote truth.

glad you could admit it. acceptance is the first step to recovery.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Deadtrees
That's how I feel about Christians. Many Christians are just nice people living their lives but there're these paranoid Christian wackos doing nasty things. It is those people that makes me to devalue general Christians.
For 'God's sake,' I just can't stand those people who can find themselves without a thousands years old fairy tales.

Except the body count of radical christians seems to be significantly less than that of radical islam.

Yeah, I have no love for the religious of any flavor... but I'm having trouble remembering when christians flew planes into muslim skyscrapers and military establishments, killing nearly 3,000 in a single day. But according to the red streaks from the bleeding hearts here, it must have happened.

Your perspective is limited to only a few decades. You have to dig deep a few centuries, but it's all there.

Muslims ruled large swaths of Europe in relative peace for centuries, at least as long as Christians have "dominated" the free world in modern times.

Well, you did want to talk history, right?

Consider what a desperate people will do when faced with no representation, possible genocide, etc.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Deadtrees
That's how I feel about Christians. Many Christians are just nice people living their lives but there're these paranoid Christian wackos doing nasty things. It is those people that makes me to devalue general Christians.
For 'God's sake,' I just can't stand those people who can find themselves without a thousands years old fairy tales.

Except the body count of radical christians seems to be significantly less than that of radical islam.

Yeah, I have no love for the religious of any flavor... but I'm having trouble remembering when christians flew planes into muslim skyscrapers and military establishments, killing nearly 3,000 in a single day. But according to the red streaks from the bleeding hearts here, it must have happened.

Your perspective is limited to only a few decades. You have to dig deep a few centuries, but it's all there.

Muslims ruled large swaths of Europe in relative peace for centuries, at least as long as Christians have "dominated" the free world in modern times.

Well, you did want to talk history, right?

Consider what a desperate people will do when faced with no representation, possible genocide, etc.

Yeah that's pertinent

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: clamum
People who blame all evils on Islam, or thing that most Muslims are terrorists... these people really have no fucking clue what they're talking about. Rednecks. Ignorance -> fear -> hate.

You're right, I'm ignoring the daily suicide bombings everywhere in the world except northern Africa and the middle east. Erm, oh wait... that kinda... doesn't hold any water, does it? Put the peace pipe down Cheech, and be a little more realistic.

Yeah ok there Sparky. :roll:

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Born2bwire

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: clamum
People who blame all evils on Islam, or thing that most Muslims are terrorists... these people really have no fucking clue what they're talking about. Rednecks. Ignorance -> fear -> hate.

You're right, I'm ignoring the daily suicide bombings everywhere in the world except northern Africa and the middle east. Erm, oh wait... that kinda... doesn't hold any water, does it? Put the peace pipe down Cheech, and be a little more realistic.

Yeah ok there Sparky. :roll:

Your logic is flawless, I have no choice but to concede.

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: Born2bwire

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: clamum
People who blame all evils on Islam, or thing that most Muslims are terrorists... these people really have no fucking clue what they're talking about. Rednecks. Ignorance -> fear -> hate.

You're right, I'm ignoring the daily suicide bombings everywhere in the world except northern Africa and the middle east. Erm, oh wait... that kinda... doesn't hold any water, does it? Put the peace pipe down Cheech, and be a little more realistic.

Yeah ok there Sparky. :roll:

Your logic is flawless, I have no choice but to concede.

Either you didn't read what he said, can't comprehend, or are completely beyond all hope.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Deadtrees
That's how I feel about Christians. Many Christians are just nice people living their lives but there're these paranoid Christian wackos doing nasty things. It is those people that makes me to devalue general Christians.
For 'God's sake,' I just can't stand those people who can find themselves without a thousands years old fairy tales.

course the difference is i can post something like this
http://a6.vox.com/6a00c2252999...00fad68cd69e0004-500pi
without worrying about getting stabbed to death by a christian fundie. trying to get evolution into schools is a bit different from stabbing people to death for making films or cartoons. one fundamentalism is far far worse than the other because so called muslim moderates are pretty far from actual moderation when the scale of belief and behavior has been skewed so the standard of fundamentalist is off the map.

anyways,

--> p&n

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Born2bwire

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: Born2bwire

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: clamum
People who blame all evils on Islam, or thing that most Muslims are terrorists... these people really have no fucking clue what they're talking about. Rednecks. Ignorance -> fear -> hate.

You're right, I'm ignoring the daily suicide bombings everywhere in the world except northern Africa and the middle east. Erm, oh wait... that kinda... doesn't hold any water, does it? Put the peace pipe down Cheech, and be a little more realistic.

Yeah ok there Sparky. :roll:

Your logic is flawless, I have no choice but to concede.

Either you didn't read what he said, can't comprehend, or are completely beyond all hope.

Alright already, you've won - rhetoric wins debates. Must you twist the knife with more of it?

 

[KingGheedora]

I sort of think it's odd that you seem this surprised about all of this. I thought it was common knowledge that terrorists don't represent mainstream Islam.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: KingGheedora
I sort of think it's odd that you seem this surprised about all of this. I thought it was common knowledge that terrorists don't represent mainstream Islam.

Mainstream christians go to church on easter & christmas and know who jesus was.

Mainstream muslims go to church 5 times a day and are very happy that almost 3,000 infidels were killed on 9/11. They're a few centuries behind the times is all. In 1, 2, maybe 3 centuries they'll look back on their past the way we look back on slavery and naziism.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: tynopik
and yet One third of British Muslim students say it's acceptable to kill for Islam

(and that jumps to 60% for members of Islamic societies)

yup, imagine if 1/3 of whites said it was ok to bring back slavery. to reach that level, the society has to hold such types ideas on a much wider scale in perhaps in less extreme but just as horrible ways. the spectrum of thought has to be skewed in that direction for it to get that far.

http://www.iheu.org/node/1541
islam is incompatible with universal human rights


anyways

p&n-->

 

[Kadarin]

Most muslims, as people, are just ordinary people. However, Islam as a culture is fundamentally incompatible with rational Western civilization.

 

[dennilfloss]

Thread reminds me I need to watch Karthoum again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ahmad

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060588/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Omdurman

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: RichardE
I never really trust your views on Muslims since you have always been a sympathizer. Though I understand that fact that the average person in the world wants simple things we do, Palestinians want there children to go to school just like the jews do. I think you miss the point of what is the crux of the problem, though you hit the conditions of it. Poverty with a belief of god so strong it controls you life makes them easy to manipulate from the people with $$ that you said you did not interact with. If these people make a effort to tell the masses that the US or Israel or the West was responsible for there issues, I imagine there would be a different type of people you would see.

Sudan though, sadly, has alot of issues that need alot of work and I truly sympathize with those people. The poor people are not the ones we need to address though, the people with a little money who have a taste of power and want more are the ones needed to be dealth with.

Thanks for giving a human face to the poor people of the world, I had this life realization the first time I actually *visited* Palestine and talked to people there finding out that they more or less wanted the same things as me out of life.

On another non political note

Did you happen to visit Darfur (I know its pretty much impossible) as well, do you have any pictures? I have a number of friends who are actively trying to get more aid and change to that country who would probably love them. Glad you got back safe.

Thus, we can agree that Islam is not the cause of it based on your bolded part.

By the way, those with hella $$$$ were usually families whose husband's worked abroad as doctors or lawyers.


I didn't go to Darfur...but I was told it actually isn't that hard. The hard part is getting OUT of Darfur. What I learned over there is that Darfur is greatly exaggerated. Of course I'd be careful from the actual Sudanese and what they think, but I actually got a chance to speak with several UN Workers who work in Darfur helping to provide relief. Even most of Darfur is okay, it is just the select clashes that is REALLLLY bad (I actually didn't pressure them for information because I know they came to visit to relax a little from work which isn't easy). Darfur is, first and foremost, a competition for resources that has been going on for hundreds of years (ie: this isn't anything new). But now that oil has been discovered, the government is more inclined to come in and support a more 'loyal side', especially if its near the oil fields.

I actually have plenty of pictures ~ well over 600...but the airline lost one of my bags. I'm now hoping to God that it gets recovered... I would most definitely post some

And thanks for the care, I appreciate it. Who knows, give ma a few more years and maybe you can believe that Islam is not some 'ebil' religion

Originally posted by: CKent
Sudan, the country embracing the Religion of Peace. Where a female teacher - how dare a woman seek employment??? - should be stoned to death for the tragedy of allowing her students to name a tedday bear "Muhammed". Ah yes, what great people. They belong in a fucking zoo. But anyway.

This is what I'm talking about guys. He doesn't know anything and he goes on his own tirade about women not working. There are plenty of women working EVERYWHERE in Sudan - from bitches who try to overcharge me at a pharmacy, to the family friends who literally lives twice a week at a hospital because she is a doctor, to even old ladies selling hats at a market for 50 cents.

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: clamum
People who blame all evils on Islam, or thing that most Muslims are terrorists... these people really have no fucking clue what they're talking about. Rednecks. Ignorance -> fear -> hate.

You're right, I'm ignoring the daily suicide bombings everywhere in the world except northern Africa and the middle east. Erm, oh wait... that kinda... doesn't hold any water, does it? Put the peace pipe down Cheech, and be a little more realistic.

Well, clearly you were full of shit on your last post...

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Deadtrees
That's how I feel about Christians. Many Christians are just nice people living their lives but there're these paranoid Christian wackos doing nasty things. It is those people that makes me to devalue general Christians.
For 'God's sake,' I just can't stand those people who can find themselves without a thousands years old fairy tales.

Except the body count of radical christians seems to be significantly less than that of radical islam.

Yeah, I have no love for the religious of any flavor... but I'm having trouble remembering when christians flew planes into muslim skyscrapers and military establishments, killing nearly 3,000 in a single day. But according to the red streaks from the bleeding hearts here, it must have happened.

This is him trying to frame the argument is a certain way - making us accept his implicit assumptions. "Muslim Skyscrapers"?

Originally posted by: Spook
I work with two Pakistani's, and they explained to me that some of the problems in the Northern Provence's stem from the fact that Muslims are too hospitable. In these Northern tribal areas of Pakistan when these families invite someone into their house, they will defend that person tooth and nail, and will die for them if necessary. And this is the trouble with the Taliban fighters hiding out in these northern provinces, Americans or Pakistani officials will go looking for hiding Taliban, and end up killing whole families, because they are under the protection of the family. Makes everyone look bad. It doesn't help that the Pakastani central government doesn't have control of those norther provences either, but I'll save that for another thread. My example is to explain that yes, Muslims are very friendly people, so much so, that it can get themselves into trouble.

Interesting...several Pakistanis have also added to me that many problems in Pakistan are also not really religion related - it is ethnicity-based. Someone may do something stupid, but because he is an X and the others are an Y, it causes both sides to dig in.

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: KingGheedora
I sort of think it's odd that you seem this surprised about all of this. I thought it was common knowledge that terrorists don't represent mainstream Islam.

Mainstream christians go to church on easter & christmas and know who jesus was.

Mainstream muslims go to church 5 times a day and are very happy that almost 3,000 infidels were killed on 9/11. They're a few centuries behind the times is all. In 1, 2, maybe 3 centuries they'll look back on their past the way we look back on slavery and naziism.

Wow...its just getting amusing how he is constructing his own image of Muslims.


There are some other stupid posts here, but I'm glad that many can dis embed religion as the primary cause from these types of events. I do not think for one minute that religion cannot be used to push any personal socio-political agenda; this happens a lot, but there is a big difference between having a religion manipulated to achieve an agenda, and religion purposely pushing for this. with the Media so intent to focus on only Muslims, it draws away from the complex causes of these situations, as well as problems that happen with other religious groups leading us to think that this happens ONLY with Muslims because they ARE Muslims. We should always consider religion in the analysis, but I do believe that it should be analyzed as a commodity that is manipulated as opposed to the driving force.

 

[yours truly]

i personally think its double standards. people only listen when its stuff they want to hear

when our nations start wars and invade countries its just and the right thing to do, but when muslims fight back they are labeled terrorists

our soldiers fighting out there, are there by choice. they are paid to neutralize the enemy

the people on the receiving end, are defending their land, their beliefs, their way of life

the sooner we start minding our own business the better

 

[TecHNooB]

Thanks for sharing

 

[JM Aggie08]

shens

 

[cirrhosis]

Morocco was a wonderful place to live when I was there - great people, great food, attractive women, lots of history, interesting mix of cultures. I highly suggest you visit there if you have the chance to stop by Africa for a couple weeks.