Finally back from Sudan and I have some thoughts...

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
I've recently been gone from AT for a while because I went to travel. I ended up going to Sudan for a period of time. I thought I was going to go as a tourist, but I really just ended up living with the people there...I was far removed from being a tourist...unless you want to count people staring at me because I look totally out of place (although I've gotten very dark since I left).

Anyways, in our media we often see these cases of Muslims running around killing others, and we tend to blame everything on Islam ~ the sad events in India is, to some people, just further 'proof' that Muslims want to run around killing others. I've seen many people even try to connect problems in Sudan as being tied directly to religion. Well, Sudan is pretty much majority Muslim country. Automobiles everywhere have stickers that say 'God is the Greatest' 'There is no God but God' 'Mashallah' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masha%27Allah among other things. I can hear the Quran everywhere, and when meeting people they constantly refer to God, the Mosques anounce prayer five times a day, etc. etc.

And I can clearly, without hesitation say, that these people do not hate us in the way that it is constantly portrayed. They do not even hate us PERIOD. There is no significant portion that can even be considered terrorists, as many people are influenced these days to thinking that many Muslims are ready to grind their axes and kill 'westerners' or 'non muslims' at a moments notice. Most people there were poor, humble people just trying to get along and live their own lives without problems. Their greatest day to day problems relate to material concerns --> almost exclusively pertaining to money. Many people have almost nothing and barely eek by according to Sudanese standards (which is not very high at all...our poor live like kings in comparison) and others have just enough to squeeze by and make basic improvements to their lives (especially when it comes to their houses). Very very very few are part of the select elite making $$$$$$$ and living like we do ( i can't comment on them further than that because I never interacted with any of them). They don't go around plotting our demise at all, They don't go around wishing death to us, they very much are not that concerned with our lives. They just try to raise their children, marry them off, see their grand kids, and hope that their lives can be simple. Going to watch a movie, or out to a cafe with friends is enough to keep them thrilled for a week. They derive a lot of their pleasure from visiting family and friends,talking to them, and just having fun. They are still generous to one another and even the poor will try to help the less fortunate when they are in a position to do so (although there is quite a bit of begging that goes on that gets ignored...but you'd ignore it too if it happens 24/7). Many are also hard working because jobs are so hard to come by that they don't want to lose what they have.

I went to the Mosque to check up what they spoke about, and the 'great satan' came out a total of Zero times. Instead they focused on topics such as raising your children right, being ready to stand in front of your God and accept a judgment based on your actions (ie: thus, making sure that your actions were always right, etc).

I'm not saying everything was perfect there, but it is VERY VERY VERY clear that this idea of Muslims as being part of a global conspiracy to subject non Muslims to violence is just bunk. If anything it annoys them when we label them as terrorists or evil doers because they think, "What the FUCK...I'm just trying to raise my family quietly and you guys run around calling me the enemy and lobbing rockets where I live?!?!" I felt VERY VERY comfortable expressing I was an American, and I got CONSTANTLY invited for a cup of tea (although this is just a Sudanese thing in general, not necessarily exclusive to me) ; the truth is that most of those people would have LOVED to go to the USA because the opportunities are so much more. Of course, it is virtually impossible to get a visa to go the USA because the process is ridiculous and automatically eliminate anyone who is poor.

I did meet SOME idiots (2 people...total? And one was an old lady who didn't seem to fully be there) who had to damn America (ironically her son came to the wedding party absolutely wasted), but these people acted like massive hippocrities and I couldn't help but feel that much of it was just rhetoric without any actions. The other person presented a hilarious juxtaposition: on one hand he felt Bin Laden is a true Warrior representing the poor against the evils of the West for all the atrocities they commited against the Muslim World, but on the other hand will NOT tolerate ANY disruption to his weekly 'WWF/WWE' time and is absolutely in love with it that he even has stickers of his favorite wrestlers.

The trip was great, except for the really annoying part at the end where I got 'randomly selected' on my way out, and the customs agent asked me why I went to Saudi Arabia (note: I didn't go there...at all...). Talk about a douchebag making assumptions (oh and I totally gave him shit for that)

A lot of this is simply anecdotal experience, but I don't doubt that this holds true across the board. This idea of Muslims out to kill people, or plotting daily terror attacks with the same frequency that people play monopoly is simply not true. Most are just poor people getting along in life dealing with their concerns...

Even if they did have free time, they wouldn't plot against us because they are too busy with soccer:with TEN DAILY NEWSPAPERS dedicated to just soccer, and well over 20 channels dedicated to soccer 24/7 (a few of the channels are part of the 'sports series'...but they might as well get rid of the word 'sport' and replace it with soccer because that is all that is shown anyways!), any free time is sucked away by this sport lol.

Cliffs:
- The Muslim Boogeyman isn't out to get you

rose.gif
to the innocents in Mumbai
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,913
3
0
A lot of people don't realize that Muslim culture is actually one of the most hospitable around. I also remember being very shocked when I came across this, but every person I've met who has been to Iran it is always said to have the friendliest people by far.
 

Whitecloak

Diamond Member
May 4, 2001
6,074
2
0
the problem is not with the decent people but with the whackos which islam seems to generate.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Originally posted by: Whitecloak
the problem is not with the decent people but with the whackos which islam seems to generate.

And the decent people's lack of desire to reign in the whackos.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Originally posted by: Farang
A lot of people don't realize that Muslim culture is actually one of the most hospitable around. I also remember being very shocked when I came across this, but every person I've met who has been to Iran it is always said to have the friendliest people by far.

Lol after this trip I felt like Sudan has the friendliest people by far. I got lost one day and asked for help - the person not only helped me get where I want, he called the other person for me ( had a number but no phone) and talked to the person at our destination for a while, invited us for some food, spent some time asking me how the US was, and then offered to escort us part of the way there.
The family I was with told me that it wasn't specific to Sudan per se, but that is just how everyone acts in the Middle East. Of course, I can't testify to the rest, but clearly your friends seem to corroborate that statement with Iran.

Originally posted by: Whitecloak
the problem is not with the decent people but with the whackos which islam seems to generate.

You seem not to read what I wrote
 

xSauronx

Lifer
Jul 14, 2000
19,582
4
81
Originally posted by: Farang
A lot of people don't realize that Muslim culture is actually one of the most hospitable around. I also remember being very shocked when I came across this, but every person I've met who has been to Iran it is always said to have the friendliest people by far.

i read a good national geographic article about Iran recently...from the article it sounds like even a lot of the people dont agree with the strict, fundamentalist mentality of their government.
 

Whitecloak

Diamond Member
May 4, 2001
6,074
2
0
Originally posted by: magomago
Originally posted by: Farang
A lot of people don't realize that Muslim culture is actually one of the most hospitable around. I also remember being very shocked when I came across this, but every person I've met who has been to Iran it is always said to have the friendliest people by far.

Lol after this trip I felt like Sudan has the friendliest people by far. I got lost one day and asked for help - the person not only helped me get where I want, he called the other person for me ( had a number but no phone) and talked to the person at our destination for a while, invited us for some food, spent some time asking me how the US was, and then offered to escort us part of the way there.
The family I was with told me that it wasn't specific to Sudan per se, but that is just how everyone acts in the Middle East. Of course, I can't testify to the rest, but clearly your friends seem to corroborate that statement with Iran.

Originally posted by: Whitecloak
the problem is not with the decent people but with the whackos which islam seems to generate.

You seem not to read what I wrote

why?

Most muslims are normal guys. Its only the whackos who are an issue.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Originally posted by: xSauronx
Originally posted by: TheInternet1980
Originally posted by: magomago
Cliffs:
- The Muslim Boogeyman isn't out to get you

srsly? :confused:

Maybe you're a plant?

:laugh:

what made you pick Sudan, OP?

I just graduated from college and I wanted to travel because I have never been anywhere. My parent's family does not live in a very safe place right now, and my parents were not willing to send me to an Arab country on my own. Luckily, my one of my parent's best friends are from Sudan and several of them were, at the same time, going back for a wedding. They invited me to go and I simply could not say no ;) It wasn't my first choice, or even something that was on my mind, but would trade anything for the experience.

Anyways, I've always said that most Muslims there (moist means like super majority) are not this image that we cast of them....and getting a chance to actually go and see it for myself in one little 'case study' only confirms this~

If any of you guys get a chance to go travel to the Mid East, especially with a friend (mainly for language purposes if you can't speak Arabic, and so you don't get royally ripped off on prices), do it because it really shows you that this idea of class of civilizations or 'islam vs west' is bullshit, baseless, and relies on keeping both people blind to each other.
 

frostedflakes

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2005
7,925
1
81
Originally posted by: xSauronx
Originally posted by: Farang
A lot of people don't realize that Muslim culture is actually one of the most hospitable around. I also remember being very shocked when I came across this, but every person I've met who has been to Iran it is always said to have the friendliest people by far.

i read a good national geographic article about Iran recently...from the article it sounds like even a lot of the people dont agree with the strict, fundamentalist mentality of their government.
B-b-but, they're part of the "axis of evil"
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Originally posted by: Whitecloak
Originally posted by: magomago
Originally posted by: Farang
A lot of people don't realize that Muslim culture is actually one of the most hospitable around. I also remember being very shocked when I came across this, but every person I've met who has been to Iran it is always said to have the friendliest people by far.

Lol after this trip I felt like Sudan has the friendliest people by far. I got lost one day and asked for help - the person not only helped me get where I want, he called the other person for me ( had a number but no phone) and talked to the person at our destination for a while, invited us for some food, spent some time asking me how the US was, and then offered to escort us part of the way there.
The family I was with told me that it wasn't specific to Sudan per se, but that is just how everyone acts in the Middle East. Of course, I can't testify to the rest, but clearly your friends seem to corroborate that statement with Iran.

Originally posted by: Whitecloak
the problem is not with the decent people but with the whackos which islam seems to generate.

You seem not to read what I wrote

why?

Most muslims are normal guys. Its only the whackos who are an issue.

Maybe I just mis read what you said, but I read that "The people are fine...the problem is Islam because that religion generates whackos". Then again, I'm jet lagged (I'm just trying to stay awake long enough and am dead tired at the moment) and still annoyed by what happened at the airport earlier so I could be looking too deep into this.
 

Deadtrees

Platinum Member
Dec 31, 2002
2,351
0
0
That's how I feel about Christians. Many Christians are just nice people living their lives but there're these paranoid Christian wackos doing nasty things. It is those people that makes me to devalue general Christians.
For 'God's sake,' I just can't stand those people who can find themselves without a thousands years old fairy tales.

 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
I never really trust your views on Muslims since you have always been a sympathizer. Though I understand that fact that the average person in the world wants simple things we do, Palestinians want there children to go to school just like the jews do. I think you miss the point of what is the crux of the problem, though you hit the conditions of it. Poverty with a belief of god so strong it controls you life makes them easy to manipulate from the people with $$ that you said you did not interact with. If these people make a effort to tell the masses that the US or Israel or the West was responsible for there issues, I imagine there would be a different type of people you would see.

Sudan though, sadly, has alot of issues that need alot of work and I truly sympathize with those people. The poor people are not the ones we need to address though, the people with a little money who have a taste of power and want more are the ones needed to be dealth with.

Thanks for giving a human face to the poor people of the world, I had this life realization the first time I actually *visited* Palestine and talked to people there finding out that they more or less wanted the same things as me out of life.

On another non political note

Did you happen to visit Darfur (I know its pretty much impossible) as well, do you have any pictures? I have a number of friends who are actively trying to get more aid and change to that country who would probably love them. Glad you got back safe.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,528
906
126
What's scary is that I actually know people who think that all Muslims are out to kill Americans and to take over our country. :confused:

I don't believe that. I believe that most people are like us and that they would gladly welcome us into their homes.

People don't make war, governments make war. Don't listen to the bullshit propaganda, listen to the people, listen to your conscience...and your heart.
 

CKent

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
9,020
0
0
Sudan, the country embracing the Religion of Peace. Where a female teacher - how dare a woman seek employment??? - should be stoned to death for the tragedy of allowing her students to name a tedday bear "Muhammed". Ah yes, what great people. They belong in a fucking zoo. But anyway.
 

clamum

Lifer
Feb 13, 2003
26,252
403
126
People who blame all evils on Islam, or thing that most Muslims are terrorists... these people really have no fucking clue what they're talking about. Rednecks. Ignorance -> fear -> hate.
 

CKent

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
9,020
0
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Originally posted by: clamum
People who blame all evils on Islam, or thing that most Muslims are terrorists... these people really have no fucking clue what they're talking about. Rednecks. Ignorance -> fear -> hate.
You're right, I'm ignoring the daily suicide bombings everywhere in the world except northern Africa and the middle east. Erm, oh wait... that kinda... doesn't hold any water, does it? Put the peace pipe down Cheech, and be a little more realistic.
 

Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
5,922
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Originally posted by: Deadtrees
That's how I feel about Christians. Many Christians are just nice people living their lives but there're these paranoid Christian wackos doing nasty things. It is those people that makes me to devalue general Christians.
For 'God's sake,' I just can't stand those people who can find themselves without a thousands years old fairy tales.

Except the body count of radical christians seems to be significantly less than that of radical islam.
 

CKent

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
9,020
0
0
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Originally posted by: Deadtrees
That's how I feel about Christians. Many Christians are just nice people living their lives but there're these paranoid Christian wackos doing nasty things. It is those people that makes me to devalue general Christians.
For 'God's sake,' I just can't stand those people who can find themselves without a thousands years old fairy tales.

Except the body count of radical christians seems to be significantly less than that of radical islam.

Yeah, I have no love for the religious of any flavor... but I'm having trouble remembering when christians flew planes into muslim skyscrapers and military establishments, killing nearly 3,000 in a single day. But according to the red streaks from the bleeding hearts here, it must have happened.
 

clamum

Lifer
Feb 13, 2003
26,252
403
126
Originally posted by: CKent
Originally posted by: clamum
People who blame all evils on Islam, or thing that most Muslims are terrorists... these people really have no fucking clue what they're talking about. Rednecks. Ignorance -> fear -> hate.
You're right, I'm ignoring the daily suicide bombings everywhere in the world except northern Africa and the middle east. Erm, oh wait... that kinda... doesn't hold any water, does it? Put the peace pipe down Cheech, and be a little more realistic.
What part of my post do you not agree with, exactly? Islam is main cause of bad things in the world, or that most Muslims are terrorists?
 

Spook

Platinum Member
Nov 29, 1999
2,620
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76
I work with two Pakistani's, and they explained to me that some of the problems in the Northern Provence's stem from the fact that Muslims are too hospitable. In these Northern tribal areas of Pakistan when these families invite someone into their house, they will defend that person tooth and nail, and will die for them if necessary. And this is the trouble with the Taliban fighters hiding out in these northern provinces, Americans or Pakistani officials will go looking for hiding Taliban, and end up killing whole families, because they are under the protection of the family. Makes everyone look bad. It doesn't help that the Pakastani central government doesn't have control of those norther provences either, but I'll save that for another thread. My example is to explain that yes, Muslims are very friendly people, so much so, that it can get themselves into trouble.