Final Voter Assessment . . .

[CaptnKirk]

The 'WHO, the 'WHERE' & the 'WHY'

It's the Stupid, Stupid.
(Or so it seems)

USA TODAY

When President Bush delivers his State of the Union address Wednesday, he'll survey a Capitol Hill landscape that reflects the heartland he won on Election Day.

He says his victory vindicates his decision to go to war with Iraq and gives him a mandate for his domestic plans, topped by transforming part of Social Security into private or personal investment accounts.

But that's not what drew voters to Bush in four counties that tipped Republican last year. In dozens of interviews with voters in Florida, Michigan, Missouri and New Jersey, no Bush voter mentioned Social Security. Many who cited Iraq as their reason for supporting him also said they oppose the war or have concerns about his conduct of it.

Still, across the nation, the shift was striking: 153 counties that voted Democratic for president in 1996 and 2000 chose Bush in 2004; only 11 chose Democrat John Kerry after voting Republican in 1996 and 2000.

Why the surge to Bush? What does it mean for his second-term plans and Republicans who would like to succeed him? Are these four counties ? each next to a county that switched to the GOP four years earlier ? evidence of spreading Republican dominance?

As Bush lays out an ambitious agenda, here are five reasons he won, and what people say about why they voted to re-elect him.

1. A wartime president

Voters were drawn to Bush by memories of the 9/11 attacks and a reluctance to change leaders in the midst of war. They won't have that option in 2008, when Bush can't run again. But the craving for continuity helped him this time among swing voters and in areas with new voters.

2. Who was tough enough?

Democrats were damaged by the perception that the party and its nominees are weak on national security. Years of attempts to counter that image, including the nomination of Vietnam vet and Iraq-war supporter Kerry, did not persuade apprehensive voters. The ads by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacking Kerry took a toll.

3. Values mattered

Values led some voters to Bush. This bloc was reinforced by ballot initiatives in some states to ban same-sex marriage and restrict abortion, and by the perception that the urban, liberal Kerry might restrict gun-owner rights.

4. 'The move-in people'

Republicans benefited from demographic shifts. These included an influx of 20,000 Hispanics to Osceola County since 2000 and migration of white-collar health and insurance industry workers to Boone County, home of the University of Missouri's flagship campus. In both cases, the newcomers have helped make onetime Democratic strongholds competitive. Schnarre calls them "the move-in people."

. Nuts and bolts

Republicans out-campaigned Democrats. They built better grass-roots organizations, aggressively courted newcomers and sold their candidate to voters with a smart message. Democrats fell short despite Herculean efforts in Boone and some other counties.

 

[conjur]

"The ads by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacking Kerry took a toll."


Damn liberal media. Can't believe the liberal media let those guys have about 15 minutes of fame (times 100) with hardly any rebuttal or critical assessment of their statements (err...lies).


Damn liberal media.

 

[NeoV]

no conjur, you have the terminology wrong....it's ELM - Elite Liberal Media...remember?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: NeoV
no conjur, you have the terminology wrong....it's ELM - Elite Liberal Media...remember?

I haven't been fully indoctrinated yet. I'm working on it.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: conjur
"The ads by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacking Kerry took a toll."


Damn liberal media. Can't believe the liberal media let those guys have about 15 minutes of fame (times 100) with hardly any rebuttal or critical assessment of their statements (err...lies).


Damn liberal media.

gotta love your ignorance conjur.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: conjur
"The ads by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacking Kerry took a toll."


Damn liberal media. Can't believe the liberal media let those guys have about 15 minutes of fame (times 100) with hardly any rebuttal or critical assessment of their statements (err...lies).


Damn liberal media.

gotta love your ignorance conjur.

I know you love ignorance, bozack, since you wallow in it.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: conjur
"The ads by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacking Kerry took a toll."


Damn liberal media. Can't believe the liberal media let those guys have about 15 minutes of fame (times 100) with hardly any rebuttal or critical assessment of their statements (err...lies).


Damn liberal media.

You mean that real people saw through Michael Moore's attempt to discredit Bush? They saw Michael Moore for what he is - a buffoon and an insult to the people who admire him?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: conjur
"The ads by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacking Kerry took a toll."


Damn liberal media. Can't believe the liberal media let those guys have about 15 minutes of fame (times 100) with hardly any rebuttal or critical assessment of their statements (err...lies).


Damn liberal media.

You mean that real people saw through Michael Moore's attempt to discredit Bush? They saw Michael Moore for what he is - a buffoon and an insult to the people who admire him?

WTF are you talking about?

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: conjur
"The ads by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacking Kerry took a toll."


Damn liberal media. Can't believe the liberal media let those guys have about 15 minutes of fame (times 100) with hardly any rebuttal or critical assessment of their statements (err...lies).


Damn liberal media.

You mean that real people saw through Michael Moore's attempt to discredit Bush? They saw Michael Moore for what he is - a buffoon and an insult to the people who admire him?

WTF are you talking about?

I thought you were being cynical of the media as not really being liberal. Airing MM's material was as liberal as any media can possibly be, so I thought my post was a good rebuttal.

 

[Moonbeam]

Bush won because Americans are unsophisticated, manipulated, sleeping boobs who can be easily manipulated and controlled because the American System is created and maintained at huge expense to keep them that way. But when the time comes when all that can save us is a free thinking independently minded people we will be led to slaughter like sheep, just as we are being led now.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Bush won because Americans are unsophisticated, manipulated, sleeping boobs who can be easily manipulated and controlled because the American System is created and maintained at huge expense to keep them that way. But when the time comes when all that can save us is a free thinking independently minded people we will be led to slaughter like sheep, just as we are being led now.

That's nice but don't forget they are happy and proud to be sheeple.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: conjur
"The ads by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacking Kerry took a toll."


Damn liberal media. Can't believe the liberal media let those guys have about 15 minutes of fame (times 100) with hardly any rebuttal or critical assessment of their statements (err...lies).


Damn liberal media.

You mean that real people saw through Michael Moore's attempt to discredit Bush? They saw Michael Moore for what he is - a buffoon and an insult to the people who admire him?

WTF are you talking about?

I thought you were being cynical of the media as not really being liberal. Airing MM's material was as liberal as any media can possibly be, so I thought my post was a good rebuttal.

There's your problem.

And, btw, when did our MSM broadcast anything from Michael Moore?

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Bush won because Americans are unsophisticated, manipulated, sleeping boobs who can be easily manipulated and controlled because the American System is created and maintained at huge expense to keep them that way. But when the time comes when all that can save us is a free thinking independently minded people we will be led to slaughter like sheep, just as we are being led now.

That's nice but don't forget they are happy and proud to be sheeple.

Baaa - Baaa - Baaa !

 

[CaptnKirk]

Here's a contrubuting factor

<LA Times Clip>

On the block of Northwest Second Street where Elian Gonzalez lived for a time, Guillermina Ferrer remembers how federal agents seized the Cuban boy in an early morning raid. She remembers, too, the tear gas that wafted into her small, one-story home and made it hard for her to breathe.

"It was a crime, and so violent, to come in here and take a young boy like that," said Ferrer, 77.
The U.S. government's seizure of Elian so that the boy, then 6, could be returned to his father in Cuba still galls many Cuban Americans after nearly five years. It is as unpleasantly vivid for them as Ferrer's memory of the tear gas that she swallowed.

Early on April 22, 2000, agents acting under the direction of Janet Reno, then U.S. attorney general, used a battering ram to smash the door of the home next to Ferrer's in Miami's Little Havana district where Elian was living with relatives.

The boy had survived a shipwreck that claimed the lives of his mother and 10 others fleeing Cuba. He was then caught in an international custody battle.

During the raid, federal officers sprayed demonstrators with tear gas to prevent them from interfering.

Some of Ferrer's neighbors ? nine people from nearby homes and four others who were behind police barricades ? have sued the federal government, seeking $3.25 million for what they say are long-term injuries and emotional distress caused by the raid.

In closing arguments Monday in U.S. District Court in Miami, a Justice Department lawyer said the tear-gassing of bystanders was an "unavoidable consequence" and did not warrant the government paying damages to anyone who might have been injured.

Attorney Michael Hurley, representing 12 of the plaintiffs, called the gassing an "overreaction" by the Clinton administration. Some of those suing have claimed lingering injuries.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, Right - Clinton personally gassed them, thought they were Kurds & he was having a 'Sadam Flashback'.

Aren't these the same people that filed and received thousands of dollars in relief funding after the
Hurricanes in Florida last year - even though Miami wasn't even affected ?
Talk about your 'New - Improved' Welfare Queens.

Well, Yes - they are

Politicians like to talk about getting rid of waste and fraud in Washington. So why has there been so little attention paid to what appears to be substantial and blatant fraud in the way the Federal Emergency Management Agency has been doling out hurricane relief funds?

Newspaper reports indicate that substantial claims have been made in areas barely brushed by last year's storms - paid out by an agency that has failed to tighten controls. In Miami-Dade County, for example, more than 10,000 residents have been paid more than $29-million for damage suffered by Hurricane Frances, when that storm landed 100 miles north of the county. Local residents said they saw neighbors dousing their furniture with water and breaking car windows with rocks ahead of FEMA inspectors in order to substantiate their claims.

An investigative series by the South Florida Sun-Sentinel has uncovered egregious and obvious fraud that would have taken FEMA investigators little time to discover on their own.

The Sun-Sentinel talked to the management of one Homestead apartment complex whose residents cashed multiple FEMA checks. He told the paper that he knew of no hurricane-related damage to any of the 92 apartments. Neighbors said the FEMA money was used for cars and jewelry.

While it is true that Florida was socked with four hurricanes in six weeks and a priority for FEMA was to get relief to those devastated by the storms, disaster aid seems to have been shoveled out the door without any real accountability.

The Sun-Sentinel found that even when local emergency management officials raised alarm bells that a community should not receive any disaster relief because it was unaffected by a storm, FEMA paid out a large numbers of claims.

In Mobile County, Ala., FEMA approved $29-million in claims last year for flooding, despite being told by the county's emergency management director that the county had suffered no damage.

This is what happens when the leadership in an agency decides that responsible stewardship should take a backseat to spending taxpayers' money. FEMA director Michael Brown has some explaining to do and members of Congress should start asking questions.

After the Sun-Sentinel series began, the inspector general's office of the Department of Homeland Security said it is investigating fraud allegations in Miami-Dade. U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., has sent letters to his Senate colleagues on the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee asking for "vigorous congressional oversight" into claims arising from the recent storms, and seeking an investigation by the Government Accountability Office.

If Washington bureaucrats want to know why American taxpayers are sometimes grudging about trusting them to spend their money, here is a good example. Congress appropriated $8.5-billion to FEMA for hurricane relief after Florida's terrible summer. But when Americans hear that tens of millions of dollars went to areas that barely experienced a stiff breeze, they have reason to feel duped.

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: conjur
"The ads by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacking Kerry took a toll."


Damn liberal media. Can't believe the liberal media let those guys have about 15 minutes of fame (times 100) with hardly any rebuttal or critical assessment of their statements (err...lies).


Damn liberal media.

You mean that real people saw through Michael Moore's attempt to discredit Bush? They saw Michael Moore for what he is - a buffoon and an insult to the people who admire him?

WTF are you talking about?

I thought you were being cynical of the media as not really being liberal. Airing MM's material was as liberal as any media can possibly be, so I thought my post was a good rebuttal.

You "thought" wrong. It was not in the least relevant to the discussion.

Anyway, interesting analysis of the election. It seems about right.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Bush won because Americans are unsophisticated, manipulated, sleeping boobs who can be easily manipulated and controlled because the American System is created and maintained at huge expense to keep them that way. But when the time comes when all that can save us is a free thinking independently minded people we will be led to slaughter like sheep, just as we are being led now.

That's nice but don't forget they are happy and proud to be sheeple.

Baaa - Baaa - Baaa !

Thanks, I never got to say they sound like them :thumbsup:

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Here's a contrubuting factor

<LA Times Clip>

On the block of Northwest Second Street where Elian Gonzalez lived for a time, Guillermina Ferrer remembers how federal agents seized the Cuban boy in an early morning raid. She remembers, too, the tear gas that wafted into her small, one-story home and made it hard for her to breathe.

"It was a crime, and so violent, to come in here and take a young boy like that," said Ferrer, 77.
The U.S. government's seizure of Elian so that the boy, then 6, could be returned to his father in Cuba still galls many Cuban Americans after nearly five years. It is as unpleasantly vivid for them as Ferrer's memory of the tear gas that she swallowed.

Early on April 22, 2000, agents acting under the direction of Janet Reno, then U.S. attorney general, used a battering ram to smash the door of the home next to Ferrer's in Miami's Little Havana district where Elian was living with relatives.

The boy had survived a shipwreck that claimed the lives of his mother and 10 others fleeing Cuba. He was then caught in an international custody battle.

During the raid, federal officers sprayed demonstrators with tear gas to prevent them from interfering.

Some of Ferrer's neighbors ? nine people from nearby homes and four others who were behind police barricades ? have sued the federal government, seeking $3.25 million for what they say are long-term injuries and emotional distress caused by the raid.

In closing arguments Monday in U.S. District Court in Miami, a Justice Department lawyer said the tear-gassing of bystanders was an "unavoidable consequence" and did not warrant the government paying damages to anyone who might have been injured.

Attorney Michael Hurley, representing 12 of the plaintiffs, called the gassing an "overreaction" by the Clinton administration. Some of those suing have claimed lingering injuries.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, Right - Clinton personally gassed them, thought they were Kurds & he was having a 'Sadam Flashback'.

Aren't these the same people that filed and received thousands of dollars in relief funding after the
Hurricanes in Florida last year - even though Miami wasn't even affected ?
Talk about your 'New - Improved' Welfare Queens.

Well, Yes - they are

Politicians like to talk about getting rid of waste and fraud in Washington. So why has there been so little attention paid to what appears to be substantial and blatant fraud in the way the Federal Emergency Management Agency has been doling out hurricane relief funds?

Newspaper reports indicate that substantial claims have been made in areas barely brushed by last year's storms - paid out by an agency that has failed to tighten controls. In Miami-Dade County, for example, more than 10,000 residents have been paid more than $29-million for damage suffered by Hurricane Frances, when that storm landed 100 miles north of the county. Local residents said they saw neighbors dousing their furniture with water and breaking car windows with rocks ahead of FEMA inspectors in order to substantiate their claims.

An investigative series by the South Florida Sun-Sentinel has uncovered egregious and obvious fraud that would have taken FEMA investigators little time to discover on their own.

The Sun-Sentinel talked to the management of one Homestead apartment complex whose residents cashed multiple FEMA checks. He told the paper that he knew of no hurricane-related damage to any of the 92 apartments. Neighbors said the FEMA money was used for cars and jewelry.

While it is true that Florida was socked with four hurricanes in six weeks and a priority for FEMA was to get relief to those devastated by the storms, disaster aid seems to have been shoveled out the door without any real accountability.

The Sun-Sentinel found that even when local emergency management officials raised alarm bells that a community should not receive any disaster relief because it was unaffected by a storm, FEMA paid out a large numbers of claims.

In Mobile County, Ala., FEMA approved $29-million in claims last year for flooding, despite being told by the county's emergency management director that the county had suffered no damage.

This is what happens when the leadership in an agency decides that responsible stewardship should take a backseat to spending taxpayers' money. FEMA director Michael Brown has some explaining to do and members of Congress should start asking questions.

After the Sun-Sentinel series began, the inspector general's office of the Department of Homeland Security said it is investigating fraud allegations in Miami-Dade. U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., has sent letters to his Senate colleagues on the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee asking for "vigorous congressional oversight" into claims arising from the recent storms, and seeking an investigation by the Government Accountability Office.

If Washington bureaucrats want to know why American taxpayers are sometimes grudging about trusting them to spend their money, here is a good example. Congress appropriated $8.5-billion to FEMA for hurricane relief after Florida's terrible summer. But when Americans hear that tens of millions of dollars went to areas that barely experienced a stiff breeze, they have reason to feel duped.

This is a good post Capt.

It clearly shows how easily segments of the population can be swayed and brainwashed other than Religious means.

I have said many times I applaud the success the Republicans have been able to do with this exploitation, they have become truly "Master of Spin and Bull". Rush and Hannity have taught them well and many in here carry on in their name.

It's become a dumb Country but they are happy to be dumb, an interesting phenomenom I didn't expect to see but it does tie in with History repeating itself though.

 

[broon]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

It's become a dumb Country but they are happy to be dumb, an interesting phenomenom I didn't expect to see but it does tie in with History repeating itself though.

It's a dumb country because people think kids shouldn't be graded. It's a dumb country because the spelling bee is offensive. It's a dumb country because parents let MTV and the XBOX raise their kids. It's a dumb country because we fight over issues like "One nation, under God".

Bush didn't get reelected because the majority of the country has become mindless. He got reelected because the majority of the country decided he would be a less bad president than John Kerry.

This country can move foward once we get over the past. So Gore had the popular vote. Move on. So we didn't find WMD. Move on. Let's figure out how to fix things now instead of bitching about how we never should have gotten into this "mess".

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: broon

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

It's become a dumb Country but they are happy to be dumb, an interesting phenomenom I didn't expect to see but it does tie in with History repeating itself though.

It's a dumb country because people think kids shouldn't be graded. It's a dumb country because the spelling bee is offensive. It's a dumb country because parents let MTV and the XBOX raise their kids. It's a dumb country because we fight over issues like "One nation, under God".

Bush didn't get reelected because the majority of the country has become mindless. He got reelected because the majority of the country decided he would be a less bad president than John Kerry.

This country can move foward once we get over the past. So Gore had the popular vote. Move on. So we didn't find WMD. Move on. Let's figure out how to fix things now instead of bitching about how we never should have gotten into this "mess".

Sorry, not happy about "moving on" with the Anti-American Agenda of the Radical Right.

That is what is making "this mess". The sooner the Country wakes up and realizes that the better but alas most likely too late.

 

[broon]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Sorry, not happy about "moving on" with the Anti-American Agenda of the Radical Right.

That is what is making "this mess". The sooner the Country wakes up and realizes that the better but alas most likely too late.

Can you please explain who is the radical right and what the anti american agenda is?

 

[Genx87]

You libs need therapy. How many months has it been since the democrats got their arse handed to them again in a national election?

Keep wallowing in your sorrow and maybe somebody will start to care.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Genx87
You libs need therapy. How many months has it been since the democrats got their arse handed to them again in a national election?

Keep wallowing in your sorrow and maybe somebody will start to care.

Have to love the ease with which Genx87 tosses about that "libs" term.

 

[broon]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Genx87
You libs need therapy. How many months has it been since the democrats got their arse handed to them again in a national election?

Keep wallowing in your sorrow and maybe somebody will start to care.

Have to love the ease with which Genx87 tosses about that "libs" term.

I've noticed "neocon" and the like get tossed around more. Both have gotten to the point where they are both meaningless.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: broon

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Genx87
You libs need therapy. How many months has it been since the democrats got their arse handed to them again in a national election?

Keep wallowing in your sorrow and maybe somebody will start to care.

Have to love the ease with which Genx87 tosses about that "libs" term.

I've noticed "neocon" and the like get tossed around more. Both have gotten to the point where they are both meaningless.

Not from me. I only call someone a neocon who is a neocon and those are typically a select few within the Bush administration.

 

[daveshel]

Originally posted by: broon

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

It's become a dumb Country but they are happy to be dumb, an interesting phenomenom I didn't expect to see but it does tie in with History repeating itself though.

It's a dumb country because people think kids shouldn't be graded. It's a dumb country because the spelling bee is offensive. It's a dumb country because parents let MTV and the XBOX raise their kids. It's a dumb country because we fight over issues like "One nation, under God".

Bush didn't get reelected because the majority of the country has become mindless. He got reelected because the majority of the country decided he would be a less bad president than John Kerry.

This country can move foward once we get over the past. So Gore had the popular vote. Move on. So we didn't find WMD. Move on. Let's figure out how to fix things now instead of bitching about how we never should have gotten into this "mess".

We've raised a nation of people with 5-second attention spans. Move on.