Final report on Flint water crisis: The state is responsible

[Sonikku]

I find the Repubs side of this argument sooo disingenuous. Get it. They are pissed and accusing the EPA of doing exactly what they want them to do, which is exactly nothing.

This.

 

[Jhhnn]

so did this panel ever determine who actually decided to use the Flint river?

Flint was under receivership to the State & their financial affairs taken over by the RTAB-

https://www.cityofflint.com/rtab/

They chose not to buy Detroit water because it was more expensive than Flint river water.

 

[glenn1]

Flint was under receivership to the State & their financial affairs taken over by the RTAB-

https://www.cityofflint.com/rtab/

They chose not to buy Detroit water because it was more expensive than Flint river water.

Yeah, that's what happens when you're financially irresponsible and you go bankrupt; you're forced to rely on the charity and goodwill of others to survive and they might not care very much what happens to you since they just want the problem (read: you) to go away. It's too bad you can't repossess an entire city and evict them from the state like a deadbeat tenant.

 

[Brian Stirling]

Yeah, that's what happens when you're financially irresponsible and you go bankrupt; you're forced to rely on the charity and goodwill of others to survive and they might not care very much what happens to you since they just want the problem (read: you) to go away. It's too bad you can't repossess an entire city and evict them from the state like a deadbeat tenant.

Yep, Flint, a once prosperous city with major industry and good paying jobs but then the companies packed up and left the city and its people with little economic opportunities -- clearly this was the fault of the people that lost there livelihoods!

Repeat!


Brian

 

[Knowing]

Yep, Flint, a once prosperous city with major industry and good paying jobs but then the companies packed up and left the city and its people with little economic opportunities -- clearly this was the fault of the people that lost there livelihoods!

Repeat!


Brian

This paper by MIT economist David Autor covers labor forces and might be relevant to your interests.

tl;dr - "Import-exposed" blue collar jobs lost tend to have severe impacts as much as a decade or more later. Low income workers tend to lateral in to related fields that are often next on the chopping block.

Another example might be the coal miners put out of work by green energy initiatives. It's a laudable goal, despite the fact that much of "renewable" energy isn't quite ready for prime time and the the efforts are putting a lot of already low income people out of work. Obama has dumped a couple million on them and Hillary says she wants to spend billions. I don't have a link to a specific case because all the headlines I read were biased as hell.

Allegedly well meaning actions taken by the federal political class have put a lot of people out of work, allegedly well meaning actions taken by the local and state political class have poisoned them over and over and over again.

 

[Brian Stirling]

This paper by MIT economist David Autor covers labor forces and might be relevant to your interests.

tl;dr - "Import-exposed" blue collar jobs lost tend to have severe impacts as much as a decade or more later. Low income workers tend to lateral in to related fields that are often next on the chopping block.

Another example might be the coal miners put out of work by green energy initiatives. It's a laudable goal, despite the fact that much of "renewable" energy isn't quite ready for prime time and the the efforts are putting a lot of already low income people out of work. Obama has dumped a couple million on them and Hillary says she wants to spend billions. I don't have a link to a specific case because all the headlines I read were biased as hell.

Allegedly well meaning actions taken by the federal political class have put a lot of people out of work, allegedly well meaning actions taken by the local and state political class have poisoned them over and over and over again.

Yeah, I'm not buying the argument that alternate energy isn't ready for prime time AND killing jobs. If it isn't amounting to much how can it be killing jobs given the fact that the industry is adding jobs? OTH, if alternate energy is killing off coal jobs then perhaps the alternate energy IS ready for prime time. Additionally, while it is likely that as alternate energy begins to account for a sizable percent of our total energy usage then jobs will be lost in the old energy sector while jobs will be created in the new energy sector. Also, the production of oil shale and natural gas has increased enormously in the last decade and is responsible for turning an energy shortage into an energy surplus.

The early version of outsourcing in the US manufacturing sector saw plants close down in, say, Buffalo NY and move to, say, Dayton Ohio -- so a city in NY lost out while a city in Ohio gained. The modern version of outsourcing has the plant in Ohio or Alabama closing and a new plant in Guangzhou China opening -- so a city in the USA lost out without another city in the USA gaining. This is the cause of the drop in US manufacturing. Exchanging coal for solar doesn't kill off jobs as you indicate as it's trading one kind of work for another. Now, when we outsource the production of solar cells to China then that does effect jobs in the USA. Sadly, the fossil fuel industry has manipulated prices in an effort to kill off solar and have been pretty successful in doing so here in the USA. China is more the happy to pick up the slack...


Brian

 

[OverVolt]

If the source of economic activity in a city leaves, you should probably leave too, or just be happy living a simple life.

 

[K1052]

Sadly, the fossil fuel industry has manipulated prices in an effort to kill off solar and have been pretty successful in doing so here in the USA.

A lot of utilities have been coming around in recent years though there are a notable number of holdouts. The fossil fuel industry hasn't been able to prevent most states from passing RPS that increasingly shift the mix to renewable energy because they are actually popular with the citizenry at large. Mostly they've been left to take aim at rooftop solar installations while having to implement utility scale solutions on their own.

 

[sunzt]

A lot of utilities have been coming around in recent years though there are a notable number of holdouts. The fossil fuel industry hasn't been able to prevent most states from passing RPS that increasingly shift the mix to renewable energy because they are actually popular with the citizenry at large. Mostly they've been left to take aim at rooftop solar installations while having to implement utility scale solutions on their own.

The % of utilities with solar as part of their power generation has been increasing and expected to increase for the foreseeable future. The primary drivers are price predictability and reduced costs

Oil/nat gas prices can experience wild swings in volatility, but the cost of solar power remains constant and can be predicted for decades. Utilities can now make power contracts that last 20-40 years or more.