Filesharing sites going down , Good for pc gaming ?

[TridenT]

If a single person had intention to buy a product but will no longer buy the product because they received it for free, money has been lost.

If you cannot see that this number is greater than zero, you are just being dense.



No, that's not me. I buy a lot of used software/cd's.

First sentence is where you go wrong. Almost none of these people have the intention of buying the product.

 

[Ns1]

First sentence is where you go wrong. Almost none of these people have the intention of buying the product.

Almost none > 0 (which still doesn't preclude the fact that these people have no right to enjoy software that they did not purchase)

 

[TridenT]

Almost none > 0

We should ban all guns too because you know, more than 0 people use them for murderous intentions even though we have millions of cases of them not being used for that and would never be used for that.

 

[Ns1]

We should ban all guns too because you know, more than 0 people use them for murderous intentions even though we have millions of cases of them not being used for that and would never be used for that.

Anyways, have fun with that CS degree. I don't understand how a CS major cannot understand the importance of IP but okay.

GGPO thread

 

[paperfist]

It's intentional. And you know people complain about indie companies hurting... the fact is, they just have shit games. (Probably why they're 'indie')



I bet you less than 0.1% of those people would ever actually buy the game if it was 'magically unpirateable'. (I wouldn't)

Similarly, I can't pirate songs anymore for some misc reason? Ok, pandora. Ok, internet radio. Ok, thousand other resources that are legit. I am not going to pay for it because I DON'T HAVE TEH MONIEZZZZZ :awe:

You basically want something for nothing so long as it doesn't hurt your well being and your chances of being caught is slim to none.

Do you also pursue that logic with presidential elections? You know it's only one vote so why bother casting it...

I agree with you that some of these companies are grossly rich and don't really need another penny. But just like you have the right to thwart someone from stealing your car they also have a right to protect their digital copies.

 

[TridenT]

You basically want something for nothing so long as it doesn't hurt your well being and your chances of being caught is slim to none.

Do you also pursue that logic with presidential elections? You know it's only one vote so why bother casting it...

I agree with you that some of these companies are grossly rich and don't really need another penny. But just like you have the right to thwart someone from stealing your car they also have a right to protect their digital copies.

Comparing stealing a car to copying digital items is really not a comparison. In the end, I lose my actual car. In the end, the company lost nothing.

 

[Dumac]

It changed nothing with regards to piracy.

It is only (ONCE AGAIN!) companies cause legitimate users pain and trouble. I, and many others, use file-sharing sites all the time for legitimate purposes. Now that part of my life is being screwed over...

Man the internet really is going downhill lately.

 

[StrangerGuy]

It changed nothing with regards to piracy.

It is only (ONCE AGAIN!) companies cause legitimate users pain and trouble. I, and many others, use file-sharing sites all the time for legitimate purposes. Now that part of my life is being screwed over...

Man the internet really is going downhill lately.

Agreed. If game companies want to make money do it with a business model that rewards legitimate users (Steamworks support etc) instead of wasting resources alienating paying users, chasing non-paying pirates or worse, trying bend the laws over to their will...They would end up making more money. What's so difficult to understand about that concept?

 

[PrincessFrosty]

No intention to buy a product/no money to buy a product does not give you a right to enjoy the product for free.

Why is this so hard to understand?

I'm having a similar argument over at [H]forum at the moment, the problem is not that people don't think it's wrong or immoral, I think most pirates will openly admit that.

The problem is that just because something is wrong or immoral or unjustified isn't actually a barrier for a lot of people to not do that thing, that's just not how the world works, and it's not just piracy, people do stuff without justification all the time, in all warps of life.

This is why the industry at large cannot deal with piracy because they think the best idea is to bang the drum and make a noise about how piracy hurts the industry and how it's like downloading a car (they always make analogies to theft, even though it's a completely inaccurate)

Rather than actually correcting the issues that encourage piracy, look to developers who don't have issues with piracy if you want to know what this is.

 

[Arkadrel]

1) everyone knows piracy is wrong, because theres laws against it.

2) stealing something is differnt than makeing a copy of something, stop calling it theft.

3) Most people that pirate, dont do it because of conviency, but because they cant afford to buy things.

4) Rihanna made 520$ million us last year, her record company made more off her.




Now look at 3) people cant afford to buy CD's, and then look at 4).

At the same time, families with kids that download music ect, are getting sued and families left homeless because of lawyers chaseing pirates.

SOPA was foolish, it would have cost the US more than it made bigmedia.
Bigmedia doesnt care about rest of the US, just how much money it makes.

 

[Golgatha]

A few developer/publishers want that. Many realize the value that adds to their game can be the difference between purchasing their game or not. And in some cases, it might mean someone purchasing the game many years later (ie. Morrowind) because there are mods that update the graphics to something more modern looking.

Yeah, I wonder how many copies of Half Life were sold because of Counterstrike or how many copies of BF1942 were sold because of Desert Combat.

 

[Grooveriding]

1) everyone knows piracy is wrong, because theres laws against it.

This is the tough one. In some countries there are laws against, not all. In some countries it's a free for all, in others it's not illegal if you download copyrighted material for personal use and do not use it for profit or public exhibition.

Where I live it is the latter scenario. It's easy when someone walks into a store and steals a dvd or game to say there has been a loss. That store lost a tangible produced product and the revenue they would of gotten selling it. When something gets downloaded, it's a lot more of a grey area and becomes more subjective than it is black and white to define.

 

[Joepublic2]

No, not really. And I never really had to pirate games because I've always made enough money to buy them, ever since my family had a computer or play them on that is. I perused the bargain bin, and picked up some awesome games as a result, like the original Syndicate and Hexen.

Would also like to add that copyright infringement =/= piracy. Piracy is when somebody boards your ship in the dead of night, cuts off your head with a machete, and rapes your wife before killing her and throwing her and your corpses overboard.

Copyright infringement also =/= stealing. Stealing is when somebody grabs a CD, slips it into their jacket and walks out of the store, thus actually depriving somebody of something tangible. See jpg:

 

[pontifex]

Most people pirating can't afford games anyway especially not at the rate they pirate. Granted I've known some well off people that pirated. They actually paid someone to do it for them, which boggles my mind... The vast majority of people I know making over 35k or so don't though. Also, when people complain about piracy they point to the pirate bay for it's huge numbers not megaupload.

so they just happen to have a decent enough PC to play games on but don't have money to buy it?

Where are these numbers coming from? While I don't doubt this is the case sometimes, I call bullshit on 90% People just want free stuff, it's human nature.

 

[Red Storm]

No, not really. And I never really had to pirate games because I've always made enough money to buy them, ever since my family had a computer or play them on that is. I perused the bargain bin, and picked up some awesome games as a result, like the original Syndicate and Hexen.

Would also like to add that copyright infringement =/= piracy. Piracy is when somebody boards your ship in the dead of night, cuts off your head with a machete, and rapes your wife before killing her and throwing her and your corpses overboard.

Copyright infringement also =/= stealing. Stealing is when somebody grabs a CD, slips it into their jacket and walks out of the store, thus actually depriving somebody of something tangible. See jpg:

And the one thing they all share in common is that they are all wrong.

That pic perfectly describes the pirate mentality. They do it because they can, it doesn't matter if it's wrong. They don't give a shit about the people who worked to make that software.

 

[TheUnk]

I always get a kick out of the people who think because they didn't take a physical object then they didn't "steal" anything.

 

[jordanecmusic]

And the one thing they all share in common is that they are all wrong.

That pic perfectly describes the pirate mentality. They do it because they can, it doesn't matter if it's wrong. They don't give a shit about the people who worked to make that software.

Quoting that one guy because he is correct about this manner.

Would also like to add that copyright infringement =/= piracy. Piracy is when somebody boards your ship in the dead of night, cuts off your head with a machete, and rapes your wife before killing her and throwing her and your corpses overboard. INHUMANE

Copyright infringement also =/= stealing. Stealing is when somebody grabs a CD, slips it into their jacket and walks out of the store, thus actually depriving somebody of something tangible. IMMORAL

One thing I have mentioned before. Many developers get away with releasing an "unfinished", poorly ported, or just updated game. They do not release Demos of the game, so people pay $60-$50 for the game. The consumer is duped into buying a game that is not complete. There is a law for that but I am too lazy to look it up.

An example of a just updated game is Modern Warfare 3. All they did was add more guns, more maps, and other stuff that TRIES but fails to dispute it as a patch worth $60.

An example of a poorly ported game is Grand Theft Auto 4. Rockstar had to release a patch that fixed some of the issues but not all. Its a good game, mind you, but its just a poorly ported game that should have had a little bit more time to look into. Game companies already release games a little late for PC compared to consoles, why didn't they do so at that time to freshen up the code a little?

An example of an unfinshed game is Rage. Although it may be a just a glitch in the engine that makes the textures not appear as they should, that is exactly the reason why the game is unfinished. Its the same as releasing a game that has bugs that prevents the player to progress, or want to progress through the game.

There are 2 ways of knowing if you want to put money on a game. You either play a demo, or play the full game. Developers NEED to release demos for their games, or people are going to illegally download the game to see if they want it. Some times that is the statistic that is misinterpreted not as temporarily downloading to try it out, but as I am downloading this copyrighted material for keeps.

An example of what I just said. Me. I had left 4 dead 1 on 360. There was no pc demo. I torrented the full game for my pc. The next day, I went to walmart and bought the game for pc. Plain and simple. Nothing wrong with testing something to see if you want it. I was taking the liberty to demonstrate a game to myself since there was no publisher offered demo.

Mind you that I did something questionably immoral to know if I wanted to purchase the product I wanted. Did I kill anyone? No. Did I steal anything? No. Therefore, what I did is not wrong.

Also to add, if I would have not downloaded the game, I would have not purchased the game. Therefore the creators of the video game would have not gotten their $50 from me.

 

[Tom]

1) everyone knows piracy is wrong, because theres laws against it.

2) stealing something is differnt than makeing a copy of something, stop calling it theft.

3) Most people that pirate, dont do it because of conviency, but because they cant afford to buy things.

4) Rihanna made 520$ million us last year, her record company made more off her.




Now look at 3) people cant afford to buy CD's, and then look at 4).

At the same time, families with kids that download music ect, are getting sued and families left homeless because of lawyers chaseing pirates.

SOPA was foolish, it would have cost the US more than it made bigmedia.
Bigmedia doesnt care about rest of the US, just how much money it makes.

Taking something without paying for it is stealing, doesn't matter how you do it, physically or making an illicit copy is still stealing.

Besides, wy do you want to make the distinction ? The only reason is to JUSTIFY the stealing.

And it's BS to say people pirate because they can't afford to pay. This isn't food we're talking about, nobody needs to steal a CD or the music off it.

And Rihanna makes money because she's talented. It isn't ok to steal from rich people, there's no end to the spiral of anarchy that thought leads to.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Did people stop pirating music when Napster got shut down?

Did people stop pirating stuff through Bittorrent when SuprNova got shut down?

There will always be outlets for this stuff. Shut one site down, people will go to others or set up new sites.

 

[magomago]

alot of the times the people pirating the software arent going to buy the game anyway

If they aren't going to buy it, then they shouldn't be playing it

 

[magomago]

Companies like to blame piracy.

However 90% of the people that pirate stuff, cant afford to buy them.
Which means they only lose out on $, from about 10% of all the stuff downloaded.

Also you cant kill piracy....
back with caset tapes, people would still make "copies" and give to friends ect.
You could "buy" games from some dude that made a liveing off of makeing copies and selling them in a neighborhood. Thats what it used to be like before the internet.

If piracy goes off the internet, Im willing to bet you anything, you ll see these people "pop" up all over the place, makeing a liveing off of pirating stuff.

As is atm, its just "free spirited" people that do it for fun, non profit mostly.
Take it out of the internet, and they create a market place for people selling physical exsamples on the streets.


Megaupload going down is bad because it hurt all those that didnt use it for piracy.... and those that did will just find a new place to pirate stuff. So it mainly hurts those that didnt use it for piracy.

I know plenty of people making 60k+ (Not stating they are making lots of money or not, just stating that they can easily afford games) that don't buy games.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Taking something without paying for it is stealing, doesn't matter how you do it, physically or making an illicit copy is still stealing.

If I download a file, I take nothing. All the ones and zeros are still there on the server that I got it from, they are still on the server that that server got it from. The master copy that all those ones and zeros were made from is still safely in the vault of what ever company made it. All the disk's that they pressed to sell are still sitting on the shelves. What exactly did I take?

Besides, wy do you want to make the distinction ? The only reason is to JUSTIFY the stealing.

Stealing not found, no justification needed.

And it's BS to say people pirate because they can't afford to pay. This isn't food we're talking about, nobody needs to steal a CD or the music off it.

It is BS to call it stealing. You are spouting just as much propaganda as the other side. A contract has been broken, that is all. And I might mention that contract was entered into no-consensually. What is really going on here is that a major model of business is no longer valid, but the companies that use that model are trying desperately to maintain validity by forcing ever more draconian laws in an attempt to hold onto a market that is quickly going away.

If you ask me, the immoral ones are the companies that are trying to misuse the legal system to maintain a profit they are no longer entitled to.

 

[TheUnk]

If I download a file, I take nothing. All the ones and zeros are still there on the server that I got it from, they are still on the server that that server got it from. The master copy that all those ones and zeros were made from is still safely in the vault of what ever company made it. All the disk's that they pressed to sell are still sitting on the shelves. What exactly did I take?

LOL


You make it sound like it's your right to have all software, movies, music, and books, just because they are ones and zeros and you aren't stealing, just copying.

It's stealing. Period.

 

[Arkadrel]

I know plenty of people making 60k+ (Not stating they are making lots of money or not, just stating that they can easily afford games) that don't buy games.

^ those guys are a-holes then, if they have plenty of means to buy games, they should.

I can kinda understand the people that cant afford to buy stuff.... ones that have lots of money, should buy the CDs, and not have to putup with all the issues getting something pirated has (virus's,cracks,patch issues,no online play, missing movies/sounds content, ect ect ect).

It's stealing. Period.

Thats the wrong use of the word, thus why he clearified its not stealing.
You can look it up in a dictionary.

Its called piracy because thats what it is, not stealing.

 

[SMOGZINN]

LOL


You make it sound like it's your right to have all software, movies, music, and books, just because they are ones and zeros and you aren't stealing, just copying.

It's stealing. Period.

*sigh* No, it is not stealing. Nothing has been taken. And unless you infringe on their copyright for commercial advantage or private financial gain then it is not even a crime. It is a civil matter. If I should do this, I would have broken a contract. Nothing more. That is why you don't go to jail when they catch you downloading movies, like you would if they caught you stealing them from a store. The company that owns the IP to those moves simply sues you for damages.