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Fifty US generals and admirals respond to Obama's Israel policy

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SamurAchzar said:
I'll bite. Who's the more significant ally to the US, Israel or France?
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France by a mile. Israel isn't even top 10.

Here's my top 10, in no particular order.

1. Britain
2. Canada
3. Australia
4. Germany
5. France
6. Japan
7. South Korea
8. Italy
9. Mexico(no, I'm not kidding)
10. Brazil/India

A breakdown in cooperation or relations with any one of these nations would be far more devastating to the US than any deterioration, real or imagined, in our relations with Israel.
 
ayabe said:
France by a mile. Israel isn't even top 10.
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Lets stick to the France example. In my uninformed view, Israel has much more closer relations in military and intelligence (not even in the same magnitude; there was one ex. CIA person which I read as saying that the contribution of EU states, combined, isn't close to what Israel brings).
When US wanted Soviet weapons to study, guess who provided them (aircraft, ammunition and radars)?
In terms of technology transfer, both civilian and military, again I'd guess Israel contributes much more to the US (just see the sheer number of cooperations between Israeli and American military companies, specifically in missiles, radars, targeting pods, anti ICBM systems).

But all of this is nothing compared to the fact that Israel is located inside of the shittiest, most backwards region in the world, preserves American values, fights the enemies of the Americans (the fact Hizbullah, which bombed the Marines in Beirut is YOUR friend detracts nothing from this) and most importantly, never needed even ONE American soldier to defend it.

The Jewish lobby might be strong, and AIPAC has some say, but there are other, much more significant reasons why the ties between the countries are so strong (Obama's term excluded, but it's already obvious he's not representing American interests. And in the flying pig tradition, I shall add that everyone knows this).
 
Moonbeam said:
As the American people turn away from Israeli oppression of the Palestinian people we will hear more and more Israeli propaganda as they attempt to maintain their favorably. Nine out of ten dentists, after all, favor Israel.
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Maybe the Israelites pissed of God? It's not like it's be the first time.
 
ayabe said:
France by a mile. Israel isn't even top 10.

Here's my top 10, in no particular order.

1. Britain
2. Canada
3. Australia
4. Germany
5. France
6. Japan
7. South Korea
8. Italy
9. Mexico(no, I'm not kidding)
10. Brazil/India

A breakdown in cooperation or relations with any one of these nations would be far more devastating to the US than any deterioration, real or imagined, in our relations with Israel.
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Are you a moron?

Israel is America's #1 ally.

This is confirmed by senators, Presidents, the military, etc.

Europe is in its own world. Israel is stronger ally of India than the USA.

Fuck, we've been screwing India in the ass with our one-sided support for Pakistan.

You're a fucking idiot.

I doubt you're even American.
 
IHateViruses said:
Are you a moron?

Israel is America's #1 ally.

This is confirmed by senators, Presidents, the military, etc.

Europe is in its own world. Israel is stronger ally of India than the USA.

Fuck, we've been screwing India in the ass with our one-sided support for Pakistan.

You're a fucking idiot.

I doubt you're even American.
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We've been allies with Israel for what 50 or so years now? How many wars have they fought with us compared to Britain/France/Australia? You would have to be crazy to think Israel is more important than any of those countries.
 
Sclamoz said:
We've been allies with Israel for what 50 or so years now? How many wars have they fought with us compared to Britain/France/Australia? You would have to be crazy to think Israel is more important than any of those countries.
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Really. Israel would probably be out biggest ally "in the middle east" but not in the world.
 
Sclamoz said:
We've been allies with Israel for what 50 or so years now? How many wars have they fought with us compared to Britain/France/Australia? You would have to be crazy to think Israel is more important than any of those countries.
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America had a weapons embargo on Israel up to 1967. America and Israel were not the best of friends until about that time, when USSR intervened more strongly in the affairs of the Middle East. Obviously Israel always enjoyed domestic American support because of the Jewish community, but it was nothing like the ties the countries have now.

As opposed to the popular opinion, Israel was formed by a bunch of atheists, some right wing but mostly from the left (borderline or actual Leninists). The famous Kibbutz form of settlement was a miniaturized Soviet Kolhoz. The Israeli governments was exclusively left leaning up to 1977. Under these conditions, picking, as a strategic as well as a cultural ally, the US over USSR wasn't that obvious (but Ben Gurion did it anyway).

As for wars, there are two reasons why Israel is left out of the game:
1. Israel is not a part of NATO, which ruled out confrontations like in Kosovo
2. US doesn't want Israel taking part in anything related to the Muslim world, so it doesn't end up looking like a anti-Muslim crusade. This is why Bush made Israel sit quietly when it received Scuds from Iraq back in 1991, he knew that involving Israel would tear his coalition apart.

Still, Israel did its part for the US, mainly in intelligence and deterring the Soviets from bringing the ME under their exclusive influence. Not only were the Soviets arming and training the Arabs, actual Soviet pilots flew against Israeli pilots in the 1967 war and again in 1973 (and got their asses handed AFAIK).

Anyway, all I'm saying is that good relations work out for both countries, and Israel is a friend, regardless of what it chooses to do in Jerusalem. Look at it the other way, of Obama sacrificing an ally to appease the Muslims.
 
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Sammy is grasping at thin air when he says, " (the fact Hizbullah, which bombed the Marines in Beirut "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing.

The fact is that Hezbollah started in 1985, a full 2 years after the marine bombing in 1983. And gained its main Lebanese credibility and support as a social rather then military force because the Israeli peace keeping force was so Iron fist brutal.

However to accuse Israel of starting the Lebanese civil war would be incorrect, to blame Hezbollah for the Marine barracks bombing is incorrect also.
 
Lemon law said:
Sammy is grasping at thin air when he says, " (the fact Hizbullah, which bombed the Marines in Beirut "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing.

The fact is that Hezbollah started in 1985, a full 2 years after the marine bombing in 1983. And gained its main Lebanese credibility and support as a social rather then military force because the Israeli peace keeping force was so Iron fist brutal.

However to accuse Israel of starting the Lebanese civil war would be incorrect, to blame Hezbollah for the Marine barracks bombing is incorrect also.
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Go educate yourself as to who Imad Mughaniya was and what he did. The fact it was not called Hizbullah back in the day makes no difference, they were the same operatives.

After you finish reading the Wiki, go and thank Israel for bombing the shit out of him in the middle of Damascus two years ago.
 
ayabe said:
Here's my top 10, in no particular order.
1. Britain
2. Canada
3. Australia
4. Germany
5. France
6. Japan
7. South Korea
8. Italy
9. Mexico(no, I'm not kidding)
10. Brazil/India
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India is not our ally. We are allies with Pakistan, India's sworn enemy. Although, I do not consider that a true alliance, since I doubt the majority of the citizens of either country like each other. India is economically and ideologically closer to us, but as far as politics go, it is Pakistan that is our ally.
 
Maybe the flaw in this whole mirror mirror on the wall US mideast ally most beautiful of them all, is the fact, is why should we have to choose Israel or the Arab Palestinian side?

Why not be fair to both? When all are undesirable ugly step sisters desirable when the glass slipper fits none of them.

But maybe I have my fairy tales all mixed up, are we talking Cinderella, Snow White, or some other fairy tale?

But lots of ugly frogs no one would want to kiss here, lots of poisoned apples, no handsome princes, and no they all lived happily ever after.

After 62 years, the world is still stuck on once upon a time. And the damn hell of it is that its our time and our problem.

But at the end of today, choosing which frog to kiss is a no brainer, kiss none of them.
 
Sclamoz said:
We've been allies with Israel for what 50 or so years now? How many wars have they fought with us compared to Britain/France/Australia? You would have to be crazy to think Israel is more important than any of those countries.
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Israel is an historic ally.

Britain, France, Australia are natural allies based on their mode of government but not anywhere near as much of an ally like Israel.

You fail to define an ally.

Britain and France have their own foreign policy objectives. France since 1970s is obscenely pro-Arab, especially after they betrayed the Harkis and Israelis in post-Algerian war.

Britain is much closer to Europe than America.

Israel is a cooperative ally as far as military and technology goes. It has contributed more to the US defense industry than all NATO allies combined.

This is why the US military has a much closer relationship with Israel, than say...Britain.

According to statistics, Israel is also the most pro-American country on an individual basis. they also vote alongside the US in the UN more than any other allies, and support us regardless if we are wrong or right.

They are compelled to be an ally because it is paramount to their security. Israel could have leveled the Arabs in 1967s and 1973, nuked Egypt and Syria and firebombed Lebanon.

Then, perhaps, they wouldn't be in some bullshit peace process and America wouldn't be in a position to extort its government to appease the Muslims.

Anyone who posits India/Mexico as a stronger ally than Israel is detached from reality. Feel free to cite any relevant American politician that says such a thing.
 
Lemon law said:
Maybe the flaw in this whole mirror mirror on the wall US mideast ally most beautiful of them all, is the fact, is why should we have to choose Israel or the Arab Palestinian side?
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Lets see... personal freedom, human rights, innovation, technology, culture. You'd sell the Jews for some oil in a heartbeat, won't you.

But then again, I wouldn't be surprised if you endorsed US siding with Hitler, too.
 
IHateViruses said:
Israel is an historic ally.

Britain, France, Australia are natural allies based on their mode of government but not anywhere near as much of an ally like Israel.

You fail to define an ally.

Britain and France have their own foreign policy objectives. France since 1970s is obscenely pro-Arab, especially after they betrayed the Harkis and Israelis in post-Algerian war.

Britain is much closer to Europe than America.

Israel is a cooperative ally as far as military and technology goes. It has contributed more to the US defense industry than all NATO allies combined.

This is why the US military has a much closer relationship with Israel, than say...Britain.

According to statistics, Israel is also the most pro-American country on an individual basis. they also vote alongside the US in the UN more than any other allies, and support us regardless if we are wrong or right.

They are compelled to be an ally because it is paramount to their security. Israel could have leveled the Arabs in 1967s and 1973, nuked Egypt and Syria and firebombed Lebanon.

Then, perhaps, they wouldn't be in some bullshit peace process and America wouldn't be in a position to extort its government to appease the Muslims.

Anyone who posits India/Mexico as a stronger ally than Israel is detached from reality. Feel free to cite any relevant American politician that says such a thing.
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Meanwhile, in another document bearing his signature that is due to be published soon, the 2008 National Defense Strategy, Gates omits Israel from the list of the United States' main allies.

The National Defense Strategy is an official document that reflects the secretary's directives to the armed forces. It replaces the version issued in 2005 by Gates' predecessor, Donald Rumsfeld. Although Gates signed off on the document about a month ago, it has yet to be published officially; however, a copy appears on the Inside Defense Web site.
In this document, too, Gates wrote that Iran's support for terror, efforts to undermine the nascent democracies in Iraq and Afghanistan and pursuit of nuclear weapons constitute a serious challenge to the security of the region ¬ one that U.S. policy must address.

However, he also used the document to discuss America's allies.

"Our closest allies - the U.K., Australia, and Canada. Other long standing alliances NATO, Japan and South Korea foremost among them. We will work to expand and strengthen other relationships, including with India," the document states.

But Israel, which has been listed in other documents as an important U.S. ally, does not appear in this document at all.
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/cough

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1005910.html
 
Sclamoz said:
/cough

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1005910.html
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cough?

Why some bullshit gideon report from Haaretz?

Israel is America's #1 ally. Americans see Israel more of an ally than any other nation. So does our government and Congress.

So either respond to my post entirely - which was a very explicit post and highlighted each and every one of your points - or ah heck off.

if anything this just proves my overall thesis that obama has had it in for israel since he became president.

No administration since Eisenhower has shit on Israel in such a way.

and back then, Eisenhower saw international communist as a threat and even though Israel had a right to defend itself from Egypt, he knew a conflict would drag the soviet union in and could spark another war.

But today, obama is shitting on israel to simply appease the oil despots, while at the same time arming our enemies to the teeth.

this is a man not to be trusted. he is detached from reality.
 
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IHateViruses said:
cough?

Why some bullshit gideon report from Haaretz?

Israel is America's #1 ally. Americans see Israel more of an ally than any other nation. So does our government and Congress.

So either respond to my post entirely - which was a very explicit post and highlighted each and every one of your points - or ah heck off.

if anything this just proves my overall thesis that obama has had it in for israel since he became president.

No administration since Eisenhower has shit on Israel in such a way.

and back then, Eisenhower saw international communist as a threat and even though Israel had a right to defend itself from Egypt, he knew a conflict would drag the soviet union in and could spark another war.

But today, obama is shitting on israel to simply appease the oil despots, while at the same time arming our enemies to the teeth.

this is a man not to be trusted. he is detached from reality.
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None of what you write is factual so I don't bother with it. Britain is physically closer to Europe bot Politically closer to the US. We've gotten far more tech from them like the nice jet engines for the F22 and F35. BAE is the largest defense company in the world. Americans might see Israel that way but its not how it works in the real world. Obviously our government doesn't consider Israel our #1 ally, we don't even bother mentioning you. Its just a convenient landing strip in the desert for us.
 
Israel is not a good US ally. Israel attacked and sunk the USS Liberty. Was it really a mistake? Israel regularly sold advanced weaponry to India and China. For those who are ignorant, India was on the side of USSR throughout the Cold War. Would a good ally do such a thing?
 
IHateViruses said:
Are you a moron?

Israel is America's #1 ally.

This is confirmed by senators, Presidents, the military, etc.

Europe is in its own world. Israel is stronger ally of India than the USA.

Fuck, we've been screwing India in the ass with our one-sided support for Pakistan.

You're a fucking idiot.

I doubt you're even American.
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Why do you have to go from thread to thread and act like a jerk off ? its clear you are Jewish so dont expect anyone to take your arguments too seriously when you have motive for personal gain .
 
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