FF XIV ONLINE - Anyone playing?

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Arkadrel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2010
3,681
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I think being able to jump helps with immersion, even if it has no real impact on game place.
Im going to go ahead and disagree with you. If anything it ruins immersion.

Do you see people in groups all jumping around? When people gather at a spot, or in a town, their standing 99% of the time (IRL), with their feet solidly planted on the ground. A MMO with 50 people in town, and 10 of them jumping up and down continusly like madmen doesnt help immersion in anyway.

Designing a game world around the concept of no jumping doesnt hurt any, if done right.

Operating only in two dimensions makes it easier to design levels, but I think it's lazy.

Just because you cant jump, doesnt mean the enviroment has to be "flat" or "sea" level floored.
FFXI was very much so designed in 3 dementions. Carverns to crawl into, slopes, towers to climb ect ect.
Even the zones where you leveled, if anything Id saw the terrian in ffxi was "better" in this sense than most other mmos ive tried.
 
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Anteaus

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2010
2,448
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I agree with your group comparison, but then again this isn't real life. It does seem stupid to jump around, but some people like the interaction instead of just standing still....emotes don't add to gameplay either but people use them anyways. I think when you're playing an MMO, anything you can do to show expression is a good thing.

I didn't mean to imply that there aren't good games that only allow user control in 2D (no Z intervention...jumping), but with an MMO it is more than jumping on a ledge.

Anyways, thats just my opinion.
 

imagoon

Diamond Member
Feb 19, 2003
5,199
0
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Here's another question... why does it matter to people who question why people want to be able to jump in a mmo?

Personally I would be far more interested that they design content / fix bugs / improve existing content than worry about "jump." It seems like such a tiny and border on useless feature for people to keep on demanding.

And personally speaking as a BLM that spent more time "invisible" due to gear swaps, I would prefer that there be a way to set visible gear swapping to off. Bonus points if I could lock it to my full relic set since I think it looked the best. Second place to full AF3.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
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I think a big empty world devoid of any sort of story and conflict ruins immersion. I'd say "quests" (more like jobs... er... leves?) coming all from one person ruins immersion by reminding you of crap you need to do every day. Jumping is the least of my concerns when it comes to FF14.

(Yes I realize they put in "quests" from other npcs, just a tongue-in-cheek comparison of issues)
 

imagoon

Diamond Member
Feb 19, 2003
5,199
0
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yes... erh.... animations for no reason. FFXI has that too, just instead of jumping, your makeing cute kissie animations or some such instead.

Oh come on.... emotes have been a main stay of MMOs since like... forever lol. Otherwise how would I make my Female Jedi Consular clubdance in a slave girl uniform in the middle of the fleet?!?

lol
 

Imported

Lifer
Sep 2, 2000
14,679
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Tanaka started the game but his team took over. Eventually he was asked to build 14, and this couldn't have happened at a better time. FFXI 2009 is what FFXI today is. It was Yoshi + Abyssea expansions that brought the game back to life. When they moved Yoshi back off, Tanaka went on the record that Yoshi had made mistakes and it was his goal to do "damage control." This has resulted in the nerf bat hitting, and new systems of drops that basically suck. Read: Voidwalker. Random chance of getting a really rare armor that if you didnt need it, you could not even donate it to the loot pool. This started the jokes about White Mage mules running around with "full sets" of warrior gear etc because it wasn't tradeable.

Voidwalker was one of the reasons I quit XI. Abyssea also started getting boring after churning out 4+ empyrean weapons and getting all your AF3+2. I pretty much quit when the lv95 cap was introduced. Just couldn't find a will to level all my jobs again.

I'll try XIV 2.0 when its released. Have a few friends from XI playing it currently but I just don't have time for an MMO right now.
 

Coltaine

Junior Member
Mar 14, 2012
13
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Does anyone know if the combat system was changed since they started charging again?

I was pretty annoyed with just about every aspect of the game, but the combat bothered me the most, skill usage seemed unresponsive at times and the log and the actual combat seemed out of sync resulting in just mindless button mashing (this was with a fast stable connection) Any kind of strategy as appeared in FFXI (Skill Chains, stunners, shadows, erasing etc...) would be impossible under those conditions. I'm hoping for some kind of change to introduce a little bit of strategy instead of just mindless mashing... ?
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
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The UI. looked good when FF14 first came out, the problem wasnt really with it.
It was that it was sluggishly slow, unresponsive, and the interface system for menus was horrid.

The UI response time has been fixed. Just make sure you have mouse acceleration turned on via the FFXIV config app if you use a mouse. Otherwise it is a non-issue.

It still remains that the best method to play both games revolves around using a controller IMHO rather then a keyboard. It still remains that the best option for control of your character still remains using the controller despite the huge UI response improvements.

Simulary the combat system being partly turn based.... was a huuuuuuge f**k up.

The combat system is not that far apart from XI aside from the fact that there was no auto-attack in FFXIV. However that was added in a few patches ago.

FFXI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aVApDwKt9Q

FFXIV Version 1.22 Party combat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmNWHayomSA

FFXIV Version 1.20 - Not much difference then above but it gives a solo lowbie perspective of combat. Along with the user demonstrating menu responses via a mouse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EgECUl2VZM
 
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Imported

Lifer
Sep 2, 2000
14,679
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The UI response time has been fixed. Just make sure you have mouse acceleration turned on via the FFXIV config app if you use a mouse. Otherwise it is a non-issue.

It still remains that the best method to play both games revolves around using a controller IMHO rather then a keyboard. It still remains that the best option for control of your character still remains using the controller despite the huge UI response improvements.

I disagree when it comes to XI's controls. Using solely the keyboard was the best thing ever. It pissed me off that a mouse was almost needed in XIV. If I could have customized XIV controls to be like that of XI, I'd have kept playing while it was free.
 

imagoon

Diamond Member
Feb 19, 2003
5,199
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I disagree when it comes to XI's controls. Using solely the keyboard was the best thing ever. It pissed me off that a mouse was almost needed in XIV. If I could have customized XIV controls to be like that of XI, I'd have kept playing while it was free.

/agree

FFXI Keyboard for life! I find myself wishing other games did it that well. I also got addicted to console commands. "OMG the proc is Fire3" me: /ma Fire3 <t> [enter] Other people: scroll scroll scroll scroll crap missed it scroll [enter]
 

Imported

Lifer
Sep 2, 2000
14,679
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/agree

FFXI Keyboard for life! I find myself wishing other games did it that well. I also got addicted to console commands. "OMG the proc is Fire3" me: /ma Fire3 <t> [enter] Other people: scroll scroll scroll scroll crap missed it scroll [enter]

Yup. I tried playing a couple other MMOs and always wished I could use solely the keyboard and console commands.
 

shurato

Platinum Member
Sep 24, 2000
2,398
0
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Personally I would be far more interested that they design content / fix bugs / improve existing content than worry about "jump." It seems like such a tiny and border on useless feature for people to keep on demanding.

And personally speaking as a BLM that spent more time "invisible" due to gear swaps, I would prefer that there be a way to set visible gear swapping to off. Bonus points if I could lock it to my full relic set since I think it looked the best. Second place to full AF3.

Your response makes it seem as though my primary wish is to be able to jump. Who doesn't want better content and bug fixes? Wouldn't that be a given? The reason I am not interested in FFXIV isn't because you can't jump. I'm not interested because the game was a trainwreck when first released and apparently isn't all that much better now. Perhaps with the upcoming patch it will peak my interest.

Answer me this...what is the point of being able to sit? Or dance? Or do emotes? If you personally don't care for jumping then these other features ultimately have no point in the game either but their in there.

It's a personal preference. I also avidly play a ton of first person shooters since the wee early days of DOS. I just like my character to be able to move around freely and jump. It's just a personal preference of how "I" want to control my avatar in a game. However some that are opposed to this for some reason feel the need to belittle or marginalize the wants of those that have an opposing opinion of something that is to be honest, quite trivial. Not necessarily referring you doing this.... but well whatever. To each their own.
 

imagoon

Diamond Member
Feb 19, 2003
5,199
0
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Your response makes it seem as though my primary wish is to be able to jump. Who doesn't want better content and bug fixes? Wouldn't that be a given? The reason I am not interested in FFXIV isn't because you can't jump. I'm not interested because the game was a trainwreck when first released and apparently isn't all that much better now. Perhaps with the upcoming patch it will peak my interest.

Answer me this...what is the point of being able to sit? Or dance? Or do emotes? If you personally don't care for jumping then these other features ultimately have no point in the game either but their in there.

It's a personal preference. I also avidly play a ton of first person shooters since the wee early days of DOS. I just like my character to be able to move around freely and jump. It's just a personal preference of how "I" want to control my avatar in a game. However some that are opposed to this for some reason feel the need to belittle or marginalize the wants of those that have an opposing opinion of something that is to be honest, quite trivial. Not necessarily referring you doing this.... but well whatever. To each their own.

Emotes are a social thing. Jumping is an engine/environment thing. Since MMO's are social events it makes sense to add them. Jump tends to be more of an environment / strategy thing that didn't really apply to games like ff11 / ff14.

Don't get me wrong, 14 was still a train wreck. I personally would prefer them to fix 14 and put "ability to jump" down some with "Item 4056: Make the Mithras boobs bounce when they jump" Maybe Item 4055 should be jump.
 

shurato

Platinum Member
Sep 24, 2000
2,398
0
76
Emotes are a social thing. Jumping is an engine/environment thing. Since MMO's are social events it makes sense to add them. Jump tends to be more of an environment / strategy thing that didn't really apply to games like ff11 / ff14.

Don't get me wrong, 14 was still a train wreck. I personally would prefer them to fix 14 and put "ability to jump" down some with "Item 4056: Make the Mithras boobs bounce when they jump" Maybe Item 4055 should be jump.

Well either way, not a dealbreaker for me personally. I just never got why some people got so heated at those that want to be able to jump on some other forums I've read. As grindy FF XI was and with all it's faults... it's still my fav MMO of all time. Couldn't jump, swim, fall off cliffs, couldn't solo a stupid little turtle, a killer bunny chased you from one end of the zone to the next since soloing was next to impossible unless you were a BM, etc...but whatever I still loved it.

I however quit playing a few weeks after Chains of Promathia came out so it's been a really long time and my memory is a bit foggy and I'm not sure how well or bad the game ended up becoming.

Being able to play with Japanese players were a surreal experience as well. I remember them being so damn disciplined and skilled. Communicating with the translator was a blast.

Maybe with the upcoming patch FF XIV might become what it was supposed to be but I think with Guild Wars 2 coming out, I'll have my MMO fix set. You can jump in GW2 ;)

lol to watching mithra boobs bounce.
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
I disagree when it comes to XI's controls. Using solely the keyboard was the best thing ever. It pissed me off that a mouse was almost needed in XIV. If I could have customized XIV controls to be like that of XI, I'd have kept playing while it was free.

Why couldn't you? That was one of the first things I did when I played XIV at release. The only thing that I couldn't quite get right that I recall was the arrow keys. In XI they control the camera unless a menu is up, but in XIV I'm thinking that they didn't seem to gain 'focus' on the menus and I would end up still controlling the camera accidentally. Though even then I'm still pretty sure I got that fixed with a little more tinkering.
 

imagoon

Diamond Member
Feb 19, 2003
5,199
0
0
Why couldn't you? That was one of the first things I did when I played XIV at release. The only thing that I couldn't quite get right that I recall was the arrow keys. In XI they control the camera unless a menu is up, but in XIV I'm thinking that they didn't seem to gain 'focus' on the menus and I would end up still controlling the camera accidentally. Though even then I'm still pretty sure I got that fixed with a little more tinkering.

They made the arrows remappable in one of the patches. Basically for the last three days I played it was very close to FF11's keyboard. Granted I stopped after getting my char a swimsuit so.
 

Imported

Lifer
Sep 2, 2000
14,679
23
81
They made the arrows remappable in one of the patches. Basically for the last three days I played it was very close to FF11's keyboard. Granted I stopped after getting my char a swimsuit so.

They made the arrows remappable? Awesome. They weren't while I was still playing it. I'll still try 2.0 out whenever its released.
 

pandemonium

Golden Member
Mar 17, 2011
1,777
76
91
I played FFXIV in beta and through release for about a month and a half before it went free for a whole year while they "restructured their development team." I liked the game and it had a lot of potential, but the fixes for a lot of the simple UI bugs came too late, the crafting grind was ungodly bugged (most of the crafting perks were simply gimmicks and didn't actually work) and interwoven (even compared to FFXI), the main storyline was missing after about 10 quests, and the skillchain system was in place but didn't function.

I thought it had a lot of potential and was very disappointed.

Now, I'm playing Aion until Tera releases. Aion is in the process of going free-to-play, and that's never a good sign. I really enjoy how Aion plays though. We'll see.
 

pandemonium

Golden Member
Mar 17, 2011
1,777
76
91
FYI, the game was playable when I left, over 15 months ago. They fixed most of the UI lag and interaction issues that were originally plaguing the client.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
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The game was always playable, its plagued with lack of content and various little bugs and annoyances here and there.

Tera online looked interesting but there's several lawsuits from NCSoft against the company building the game, and if NCsoft wins the future for tera looks slightly doubtful.
 

Coltaine

Junior Member
Mar 14, 2012
13
0
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I played FFXIV in beta and through release... ...and the skillchain system was in place but didn't function...


Did they plan on putting skill chains in? I thought that died with ffxi... as it stood a couple months before it went pay again the combat system was in no condition to have skill chains added just based on the fact that the log, graphics, and input were all out of sync with each other... and the log was significantly worse than ffxi's scrolling combat log... to do anything re-actively based on combat actions with any sort of time window would be nearly impossible...

I'm very interested if anyone knows how the state of combat is now... if the mechanics were in the game now, could you accurately execute closing a sc with a sata ws and time a mb? Would you be able to check a mobs actions and time a stun? Get a fast erase in?

(I know these are ffxi mechanics, but I just want a comparison as far as responsiveness of ffxiv's combat system, this along with remapping the arrow keys would be a big deal for me...)
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
I don't think there are skillchains, but don't quote me. I know they have added a 'combo' system which is almost like self-skillchains but with more varied appeal because I think the secondary effects of the combo can be offensive/defensive/utility dependent on the class and the combo itself.

The last time I played and read up on the proposed direction they're taking the game, I got the impression that they were trying to make a bit more FFXI like, at least in it's "mechanics".
 

tedrodai

Golden Member
Jan 18, 2006
1,014
1
0
You realize that a MMO without a jump command would be designed around not needed to jump to get around an environment right?

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahaha *gasp for breath* hahahah

You'd think so. Technically you can navigate around the environment without jumping, but in order to get to that camp 20 paces in front of you, you have to zig and zag 15 times to avoid rocks smaller than your toe or tiny fences you should be able to step over...because they will stop you dead in your tracks. Tanaka's maps were utter crap, with or without jumping.

To be fair, Yoshida's team has made quick fixes to the landscape so that it's quite a bit more transversable--they simply turned off collision detection for some of those annoying little things. But there was no point in doing much more since they're remaking every map for 2.0.

It's obviously important enough to change the game mechanics to allow this feature so I can't be alone here. I guess what I'm curious would be those who are opposed to being able to jump in a MMO and why.

Yeah, they're changing it. I don't think it's so much that people oppose it but rather view it as unimportant as long as the game is solid...I.E. just a really really low priority for some. I personally don't care one way or the other, but then I probably will like it once it's added.
 
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tedrodai

Golden Member
Jan 18, 2006
1,014
1
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To answer the OP though, I still play the game, and have since open beta. I, like everyone else, thought the game sucked initially, but I made friends and the game stayed F2P, so I stuck around to watch all the changes and see if it got better. As far as gameplay, they're leaps and bounds ahead of where they started, but yes, the population is still pretty low, and there's gonna be some problems that just can't be resolved til 2.0 hits--not that I'm predicting whether they WILL be fixed ;). 2.0 won't be a patch, it'll be a completely new game engine with completely new maps and many other changes. It will definitely be BETTER than the current game, as each new patch has demonstrated...time will tell if they will have a solid game then and will attract enough people back to keep playing.

and the skillchain system was in place but didn't function.

The "skillchain" system, battle regimens, worked just fine from the beginning if you learned how to use them and your party was on the ball. However the interface for it was clunky, and of course the game was so bogged down with other problems that most people didn't ever bother trying to figure out how to properly use it or got frustrated trying to use it. That being said...while battle regimens were awesome as far as DPS increase and mob debuffs if used correctly, the entire system was kinda bleh as far as being fun to use. They removed battle regimens from the game many patches ago though, and no word yet what they're gonna do to replace it (if anything) other than the self-combos. IIRC the self-combos aren't necessarily set in stone atm either.

Did they plan on putting skill chains in? I thought that died with ffxi... as it stood a couple months before it went pay again the combat system was in no condition to have skill chains added just based on the fact that the log, graphics, and input were all out of sync with each other... and the log was significantly worse than ffxi's scrolling combat log... to do anything re-actively based on combat actions with any sort of time window would be nearly impossible...

I'm very interested if anyone knows how the state of combat is now... if the mechanics were in the game now, could you accurately execute closing a sc with a sata ws and time a mb? Would you be able to check a mobs actions and time a stun? Get a fast erase in?

(I know these are ffxi mechanics, but I just want a comparison as far as responsiveness of ffxiv's combat system, this along with remapping the arrow keys would be a big deal for me...)


Eh...skillchains at this point in the game's re-development *could* be done, but I sure hope the 2.0 client/server is a *tad* more seemless. There is still a significant amount of lag involved with what your client thinks vs what the server thinks and what other people's client thinks is happening at any given moment, but it is a fairly constant value. The game is an MMO of course, so you're gonna deal with latency between yourself and the server, and it doesn't help that SE uses servers based in Japan for a worldwide player population...pros and cons to that. Anywho, stuff like this:

-Player A moves a few steps ahead of you... 1.5-2 seconds later (rough guess) in real time your client shows him moving a few steps ahead of you.

-You need to perform a combo that requires you to weaponskill from the front of the mob, then perform a 2nd WS from behind the mob. Combo effect is a stun. You perform WS #1 positioned correctly. Due to the inherent client-server latency, you wait til the mob performs his next action (such as a melee attack) to give you a cue that YES, THE MOB IS FACING ME AT THIS VERY MOMENT, AND I HAVE SOME TIME TO REACT, then you run behind the mob and fire off WS #2.
--If you were to attempt to move without waiting for that sort of cue, there is no guarantee that you'll have the mob positioned correctly, because the graphics on your client will update ~.5-1 second later than the server. Sometimes, if your timing was close, the mob will turn to face you on screen while you get off WS #2, and a second later the server will update your client to show that "Yes, the mob is still facing the other direction and is now stunned from your combo". Or you might have missed your window and he stays right where he is and you don't get your combo effect. You just don't know til you know.

-Boss A starts a weaponskill that you need to react to. You have X amount of time to react as soon as your visual clue shows up (usually your battle log, properly filtered), which is plenty of time as long as you're prepared for it (i.e. not casting a spell, performing a weasponskill...stuff that keeps you from moving/performing other actions at that particular moment). You watch for that cue and react ASAP, and everything's hunky dory. Unfortunately, you can pretty much rely on the fact that when people/mobs start moving, your game client is NOT going to properly show everthing's positioning til everyone stops moving. Sometimes positioning matters during time periods like that, sometimes not. You just have to account for it when it does.