Fermi is out. Thumbs up or down you decide with poll!

[tviceman]

It sucks that Fermi is a complete flop

Look who it is!


The gtx470 and 480 are not "flops." A flop doesn't completely man handle the competition at minimum frame rates in Crysis and outright win every DX11 benchmark. (I don't know what the issue with anand's BFBC2 benchmark is, every other benchmark shows Fermi clearly dominating the hd5800 cards).

Comparing the gtx470 and hd5870...

If someone asking me for advice was building a gaming system today that will be able to still run games well in 2-3 years, right now judging by the DX11 performance, it would be a difficult decision to recommend either a gtx470 and 5870. In fact, if DX11 takes over next year the performance advantage between a vanilla gtx470 and 5870 will probably swing the gtx470's favor. It may not be by much, and the two cards will likely still be trading blows, but on average the gtx470 will probably be faster in FUTURE dx11 games.

And, since it's launching at $70 cheaper than what we can currently get an hd5870 at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...on%20HD%205870, I think someone sacrificing 10% performance in some current dx9/dx10 games (that likely are already running at extremely high frame rates) to get 5-10% increase performance in future, more demanding games is making a smart purchase.

 

[SolMiester]

Performance seems on par, power is a concern. I have to give Nv a little bit of shit for not actually going triplehead like the 5xxx series.

If Nv delivers on 3d Vision Surround support for the GTX 200 series, then I'll stick with my current setup long-term. Otherwise, I'll probably be looking at a Fermi refresh or Radeon 6xxx series when they are out.

I thought they did? 2 x dvi and 1 x hdmi?, didnt Anand talk about it?

 

[waffleironhead]

I thought they did? 2 x dvi and 1 x hdmi?, didnt Anand talk about it?

From the AT article

Up next is the port layout of the GTX 400 series. Unlike AMD, NVIDIA’s TDP is too high here to go with a half-slot vent here, so NVIDIA is limited to what ports they can fit on a single full slot. In this case their reference design is a pair of DVI ports and a mini-HDMI port (this being the first cards with that port in our labs). Bear in mind that GF100 doesn’t have the ability to drive 3 displays with a single card, so while there are 3 DVI-type outputs here, you can only have two at once.

was Ryan wrong?

 

[zerocool84]

Look who it is!


The gtx470 and 480 are not "flops." A flop doesn't completely man handle the competition at minimum frame rates in Crysis and outright win every DX11 benchmark. (I don't know what the issue with anand's BFBC2 benchmark is, every other benchmark shows Fermi clearly dominating the hd5800 cards).

Comparing the gtx470 and hd5870...

If someone asking me for advice was building a gaming system today that will be able to still run games well in 2-3 years, right now judging by the DX11 performance, it would be a difficult decision to recommend either a gtx470 and 5870. In fact, if DX11 takes over next year the performance advantage between a vanilla gtx470 and 5870 will probably swing the gtx470's favor. It may not be by much, and the two cards will likely still be trading blows, but on average the gtx470 will probably be faster in FUTURE dx11 games.

And, since it's launching at $70 cheaper than what we can currently get an hd5870 at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...on%20HD%205870, I think someone sacrificing 10% performance in some current dx9/dx10 games (that likely are already running at extremely high frame rates) to get 5-10% increase performance in future, more demanding games is making a smart purchase.

Of course you're going to choose Nvidia. Everyone knows you're part of the green squad. Fact of the matter is that they said it's going to destroy the 5xxx series and being so late and only 10-15% better is sad to most of us.

Anandtech said the 5850 is the better buy than the other cards.

Also lol @ you for saying the 470 is going to get 5-10% increase in future games. I didn't know you could tell the future. No one knows what's coming in the future.

 

[tviceman]

Of course you're going to choose Nvidia. Everyone knows you're part of the green squad. Fact of the matter is that they said it's going to destroy the 5xxx series and being so late and only 10-15% better is sad to most of us.

Anandtech said the 5850 is the better buy than the other cards.

Also lol @ you for saying the 470 is going to get 5-10% increase in future games. I didn't know you could tell the future. No one knows what's coming in the future.

Of course you're going to choose ATI. Everyone knows you're part of the red squad. Fact of the matter is you have a 5870 and you bought it as soon as you possibly could. Anyone in their right mind won't spend $500 for 10-20% performance improvement.

Anandtech said the 5850 is the better buy TODAY than the other cards. I didn't argue with that opinion! I didn't even mention the 5850. But thanks for reminding me of what AT said in the article although it had nothing to do with what I was saying!

Also lol @ you for taking my quotes out of context! If you had properly read everything I said, and noticed the same benchmarking trends that I noticed, you too would see that in DX11 the gtx470 and 5870 are neck and neck!



See what I did there? Want to keep going?

 

[Lonyo]

Also lol @ you for taking my quotes out of context! If you had properly read everything I said, and noticed the same benchmarking trends that I noticed, you too would see that in DX11 the gtx470 and 5870 are neck and neck!



See what I did there? Want to keep going?

Neck and neck, except when the HD5870 comes close to or beats the GTX480

 

[SolMiester]

Neck and neck, except when the HD5870 comes close to or beats the GTX480

I could do the same with at least 4 other games showing the opposite?!

 

[Lonyo]

I could do the same with at least 4 other games showing the opposite?!

Actually you could do the same with those very games, just select some different settings

The real question about Fermi is:

WHY DOES IT SUFFER MORE AT HIGH RESOLUTIONS?

 

[Cookie Monster]

Actually you could do the same with those very games, just select some different settings

The real question about Fermi is:

WHY DOES IT SUFFER MORE AT HIGH RESOLUTIONS?

Could be driver problems as I doubt it has anything to do with being Vram limited.

 

[deputc26]

About what I expected or slightly faster. So I give it a thumbs up.

This, can't help but think that with better silicon (as in nvidia doing better with what TSMC gave them and maybe TSMC not sucking so much as well) it could have really be something.

Did they officially announce die size/has anyone measured it?

 

[darXoul]

Last option for me, sticking with my GTX 295, single PCB version. Fermi does show some promise (tesselation, performance in some games like Metro 2033), plus it has 1.5 GB VRAM which would be good for GTA IV and it's a single GPU card as well, which is always my preferred setup. However, its performance doesn't justify the upgrade, and it simply has too many flaws like noise, heat and power draw (the latter doesn't bother me too much, however).

Fermi respin might be a good card but the current card looks like the worst GeForce since FX 5800 Ultra. I'm disappointed since despite e.g. semiaccurate/Charlie Demerjian's rants I was hoping we would see a better card.

If a "green camp partner" manages to keep temperature and noise at bay by slapping some awesome cooler onto the card, and releases a custom 480 with decent and stable OC, I might pull the trigger. The current card is a flop in my eyes, so I'll pass on it.

 

[Apocalypse23]

Having bought a

backup Asus 4350 (super silent and fanless HTPC card)
Asus 5870 for rig 1
Asus 5850 for rig 2
and recently ordering an Asus 5970 for rig1 to crossfire with my 5870, I think I'm set....And due to researching the best value I could get and considering how the prices would still be sky high, I think I made the right decision.

No Fermi for me. Already had a bad heating experience with a 9800GX2 soaring to 110C....tell me about it

 

[zerocool84]

Of course you're going to choose ATI. Everyone knows you're part of the red squad. Fact of the matter is you have a 5870 and you bought it as soon as you possibly could. Anyone in their right mind won't spend $500 for 10-20% performance improvement.

Anandtech said the 5850 is the better buy TODAY than the other cards. I didn't argue with that opinion! I didn't even mention the 5850. But thanks for reminding me of what AT said in the article although it had nothing to do with what I was saying!

Also lol @ you for taking my quotes out of context! If you had properly read everything I said, and noticed the same benchmarking trends that I noticed, you too would see that in DX11 the gtx470 and 5870 are neck and neck!



See what I did there? Want to keep going?

Well that's fine but this is my first ATI card and have owned 5 Nvidia cards but seeing as I own an ATI card it automatically makes me part of their squad and that's fine if you think so cus you try so hard but that's ok. I've only had this card since last month as well.

What do you mean better buy today??? What else would you be talking about? You can't be talking about anything other than today. No one can. You certainly can't be talking about the future but if you are you might be Miss Cleo.

I hope we're looking at the same benchies cus the 470 and 5870 are not neck and neck in DX11 games. Maybe I need a better prescription but yea.......

See what I did there? Want to keep going?

 

[qliveur]

Thumbs down. The power draw and the pricing are a joke, and this is coming from someone with 2 nVidia cards in his present setup. I can't believe that nVidia couldn't do any better than this with 6 extra months to work with, but I guess that silicon engineering is a fickle thing.

Also, this thread was a good idea, because voting yea or nay and then stating your reasons for voting the way that you did is all that is really necessary. Straight and to the point. It was working beautifully until the trolls showed up.

 

[Vampirrella]

I'm gonna hold out and use up my current card (gtx295). I can run the games i like at respectable frame rates so i'm gonna stick it out for now.

 

[tviceman]

Well that's fine but this is my first ATI card and have owned 5 Nvidia cards

Ohhhh okay. I owned 6 3dfx cards, 4 ati cards, and 3 nvidia cards. The internets are grate! We gets to make up whatever we want peoplez to believe about m3!

I hope we're looking at the same benchies cus the 470 and 5870 are not neck and neck in DX11 games. Maybe I need a better prescription but yea.......

See what I did there? Want to keep going?

Yeah i see what you did there. You forgot to read. Let me help you.

BattleForge DX11: GTX 470 beats hd5870 2/3, ties on other.
Stalker: gtx470 loses to hd5870 in every benchmark.
Battlefield Bad Company 2: gtx470 loses to hd5870 in every benchmark.
Dirt 2: GTX 470 beats hd5870 1/3 benchmarks, loses once, and essentially ties in another.
Metro2033: gtx470 beats hd5870 in every benchmark (hardocp review, AT doesn't benchmark this game)
AvP: I can't find any straight comparisons, but hardocp shows the 5870 getting 37.6 fps with 2x AA vs. the gtx470 getting 40.4 w/o AA. My guess is the results would be neck and neck if the gtx470 had 2x AA enabled as well.

So out of all the DX11 games benchmarked around the web, the GTX 470 is faster at BattleForge and Metro2033. It loses at BBC2 and Stalker. It ties in Dirt 2 and AvP.

HOW IS THAT NOT NECK AND NECK?

See what I did there? I provided facts and proved my points!

 

[zerocool84]

Ohhhh okay. I owned 6 3dfx cards, 4 ati cards, and 3 nvidia cards. The internets are grate! We gets to make up whatever we want peoplez to believe about m3!



Yeah i see what you did there. You forgot to read. Let me help you.

BattleForge DX11: GTX 470 beats hd5870 2/3, ties on other.
Stalker: gtx470 loses to hd5870 in every benchmark.
Battlefield Bad Company 2: gtx470 loses to hd5870 in every benchmark.
Dirt 2: GTX 470 beats hd5870 1/3 benchmarks, loses once, and essentially ties in another.
Metro2033: gtx470 beats hd5870 in every benchmark (hardocp review, AT doesn't benchmark this game)
AvP: I can't find any straight comparisons, but hardocp shows the 5870 getting 37.6 fps with 2x AA vs. the gtx470 getting 40.4 w/o AA. My guess is the results would be neck and neck if the gtx470 had 2x AA enabled as well.

So out of all the DX11 games benchmarked around the web, the GTX 470 is faster at BattleForge and Metro2033. It loses at BBC2 and Stalker. It ties in Dirt 2 and AvP.

HOW IS THAT NOT NECK AND NECK?

See what I did there? I provided facts and proved my points!

lol that doesn't sound like neck and neck to me but ok whatever then. We're just going to keep going around in circles it seems.

I'm sorry you feel the need to lie about what cards you own. That's a personal problem you're going to have to look at.

 

[Skurge]

Will the 470 be able to handle "FUTURE" Dx11 games? people don't really buy cards for their possible future performance.

People said the same thing about the 2900XT (its gonna be awesome in "future' dx10 games) just because it destroyed the 8800s in COJ and Lost planet.

Another thing, the only results you should be really looking at for a $350 is 1920x1080 or higher.

 

[palladium]

Waiting for 5870/5970 prices to drop before I grab one to replace my gtx280. Probably would not get a gtx480 unless prices drop significantly.

 

[extra]

Where's the "meh" option. Good card but way too much juice and $ for me at this point. Very glad it's out though and *very* glad it's faster than the 5870 on some things (even if it's not even remotely as good of a value lol). It really seems like this architecture has a lot of promise for the future, maybe moreso than the 5xxx ati architecture. I'm curious what the $250 part in 6-9 months will look like.

 

[tviceman]

lol that doesn't sound like neck and neck to me but ok whatever then. We're just going to keep going around in circles it seems.

I'm sorry you feel the need to lie about what cards you own. That's a personal problem you're going to have to look at.

Win 2, lose 2, tie 2 but it's not neck and neck. Ohhhhh kay thanks for clearing that one up.

 

[PieIsAwesome]

Thumbs up, seeing those power draw results was very entertaining! Thanks for the LOLz.

 

[zerocool84]

Win 2, lose 2, tie 2 but it's not neck and neck. Ohhhhh kay thanks for clearing that one up.

Where do you get this tie 2 from??? You mean the AvP bench where you guesstimated??? You OBVIOUSLY want to keep this going.

 

[tviceman]

Where do you get this tie 2 from??? You mean the AvP bench where you guesstimated??? You OBVIOUSLY want to keep this going.

Yes I obviously want to keep it going. I guesstimated that enabling 2x AA in a situation where vram is not limited would result in 13% performance hit. Does that sound unacceptable to you? ... Nevermind I found a AvP apples to apples benchmark. The gtx470 wins 2 benchmarks, virtually ties at 1, and loses 3 among various resolutions & AA settings in AvP.

So yeah, I was right. Regarding DX11 performance, the two cards are neck and neck. I'm not really sure why this bothers you so much though. Maybe because you just want the gtx470 to be obviously slower. But that's okay. You will always have dx9 and dx10 games! Have a great night!

 

[zerocool84]

Yes I obviously want to keep it going. I guesstimated that enabling 2x AA in a situation where vram is not limited would result in 13% performance hit. Does that sound unacceptable to you? ... Nevermind I found a AvP apples to apples benchmark. The gtx470 wins 2 benchmarks, virtually ties at 1, and loses at 3 among various resolutions & AA settings in AvP.

So yeah, I was right. Regarding DX11 performance, the two cards are neck and neck. I'm not really sure why this bothers you so much though. Maybe because you just want the gtx470 to be obviously slower. But that's okay. You will always have dx9 and dx10 games! Have a great night!

lol no it's cus it IS slower but you WANT it to be faster.

Have a great night. And what's funny is that you were saying that DX11 doesn't matter cus practically no games use it. Now all of a sudden it's a important benchmark.

You can keep saying it's better than the 5870 but anyone with a brain knows better.