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Feminism....why?

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<< i know a few of them, and i have to say they are pretty cool, because they're not all fake like a lot of the other feminists these days. >>


Those are the true feminists. Those fake ones are....well.....fake. There's a lot of "trendy" feminists out there. Don't believe the hype. Boyeeeeeee! 😀
 
According to Webster's Dictionary (The Voice of Authority, as claimed on the cover 🙂) sexism is defined as prejudice or discrimination based on sex. Paying a woman less because they have to take maternity leave is discrimination.

i have said all along it is discrimination. however, it is not discrimination based on gender. if there was a woman who was infertile, this wouldn't be a problem.

keep in mind that paying a guy the same amount for more work is discrimination.

A strip joint refusing to hire male dancers is discrimination. I bet if a male were to go and try to get a job and were denied, they could make a case for sex based discrimination.

yes, they could make such a case. in fact such a case was made with hooters (restaurant). it was thrown out of court, last time i checked.

30 to 40 years ago people were having this same discussion. Only it was about why blacks get paid less then their white counterparts. And guess what? That problem is still haunting us.

oh please, way to play the race card. there is no black equivalent to pregnancy.
 


<<

<< i know a few of them, and i have to say they are pretty cool, because they're not all fake like a lot of the other feminists these days. >>


Those are the true feminists. Those fake ones are....well.....fake. There's a lot of "trendy" feminists out there. Don't believe the hype. Boyeeeeeee! 😀 >>



i hear ya! some of you may laugh, but i consider myself a feminist. i believe in equality. but just that... EQUALITY. none of that inequality crap those fake feminists spew.
 


<< oh please, way to play the race card. there is no black equivalent to pregnancy. >>


Discrimination is discrimination, whether it's based on color, sex, creed, or whatever difference you can think of.
 
Discrimination is discrimination, whether it's based on color, sex, creed, or whatever difference you can think of.

right, but discrimination based on ability is legal. to go even further, i strongly believe it is necessary in our society.

 


<< Discrimination is discrimination, whether it's based on color, sex, cre >>


what about discrimination of people who have aggresive tendancies away from society is that a bad discrimination. not all discrimination is bad. but if its discrimination just b/c she is a female then thats bad.
 
You people need to read more carefully. He is not saying they are not getting job opportunities because they are women. His argument does not even apply to all women, just pregnant ones. If a woman has children and needs to take a leave, I do not believe she is entitled for the same opportunities as a man or woman who has not taken a leave and worked for the company. Likewise if a man has any reason to take an extended leave he should not get the same promotions/ raises as any man or woman who worked without leave.
 
I like the argument where it was said that in order to break the glass ceiling women should get jobs and work for it. Speak with your actions.

I am a senior in HS and I cannot even begin to describe the amount of discrimination that goes on against whites and males. The teachers (granted I do not consider most HS teachers to be even moderately intelligent and take everything they say with a grain of salt), especially in English, preach feminism like the Bible. Ever since my sophomore year my English classes have been nothing more than feminazi brain-washing classes. I cannot remember a single book other than "Lord of the Flies" that we've read (but even then they managed to sneak a little feminism in it) that has not been about either racism or sexism, and I take the AP classes which are supposed to be college level. It is amazing though that students can be so oblivious to any type of reason or original thought that when my teacher explains that men are driven purely by hormones and that she wouldn't be suprised if 50% of all men have commited some kind of illegal sexual act against women the student readily accept it like it was the words of God Himself. I have been fighting it and really have my own little crusade going on, but it is pointless seeing how my views of equality, not better than equal, are not PC and these people have only learned what they have heard from feminazi's.

I'm off my soapbox now, but I would like to hear your arguement if you disagree.
 
Discrimination works against us all.

When was the last time you walked into a guys lav. and saw a babies changing table ? Obviously no one has caught onto the fact that there are a good number of solo dads raising babies now.

If a man cant get a hard-on health insurance will often pay for Viagra but don?t get breast cancer because chances are they wont pay for reconstructive surgery. (A mans need to get his rocks off is obviously more important.)

How many times have you seen a man get away with doing a bad job because they show a bit of cleavage, bat their eyelashes or sheds a few tears? Never, but women manage to do it regularly.

How many women feel free to hit men and then cry foul when they get hit back ? (I don?t believe in spousal abuse but I sure as sh*t don?t agree with some fist happy woman thinking they beat the crap out of a man and not get hit back just because they are female.)

Going for an interview and being told your chances aren?t all that great because we don't feel women are cut out for tech support. (In NZ, its not the norm but it has happened to me)

Ms T&A who can make her male bosses 'nads twitch will not have to be as productive as her male co-workers but if she her boss is female she better give 110%.

If a solo dad runs the house and raises the kids he is a saint if a woman does it, its no big deal that is what she was created for.

As for the child rearing issue, I would like to think that if anyone was out of the workforce for several years they would not be paid as well as the person who has worked continually.
Companies pay for experience as well as knowledge.

I don't wish to be penalized for being a woman but I sure as hell don?t expect a free ride because of it.




<< I like the argument where it was said that in order to break the glass ceiling women should get jobs and work for it. Speak with your actions. >>



This makes the assumption that a woman will get the same salary, promotions and benefits that a man would for putting in the same effort, which is not always the case.
 


<< I am a senior in HS and I cannot even begin to describe the amount of discrimination that goes on against whites and males. >>


I agree with this to some extent. I recall when taking the PSAT noting that there were 3 scholarships available--one for everyone and 2 for non-white people. Of course the everyone scholarship is also open to non-whites. So in other words, a non-white person could grab the Nat'l Merit Scholarship, the ONLY one I'm eligible for, and still have the potential of winning the other two awards that I'm not eligible for.
If you're going to discriminate based on race, at least do it equally.



<< Ever since my sophomore year my English classes have been nothing more than feminazi brain-washing classes. I cannot remember a single book other than "Lord of the Flies" that we've read (but even then they managed to sneak a little feminism in it) that has not been about either racism or sexism, and I take the AP classes which are supposed to be college level. >>



I feel like literary instructors are often making things up.
I'll never forget sophomore year in HS, on The Cather In The Rye. My teacher asks what it symbolizes that Holden has diarrhea. WTF! My response was "He couldn't get a grip on what was going on inside him." She was not amused. I can't remember what she said it symbolized, but I just told her that until she could produce a signed document from JD Salinger stating otherwise, it was simply part of the scenery--it's more bleak for Holden if he has the runs--makes the story more colorful.
OTOH, in many cases themes like racism and sexism do show up in many books where you'd least expect it, so it's at least worthy of noting it where it occurs. It's just that some teachers are so busy looking for it, they invent it.
 


<< I like the argument where it was said that in order to break the glass ceiling women should get jobs and work for it. Speak with your actions. >>



This makes the assumption that a women will get the same salary, promotions and benefits that a man would for putting in the same effort, which is not always the case.[/i] >>



actually no. i know that life is unfair. what i am saying is that, if we want to make it fair, the only way to change it is by example, not by whining.
 


<< I think those people need a good talking to >>



Linuxboy,

A "good talking to"? Damn, man, that's harsh. This topic must really get you riled up.

You've never heard me "talk" to people 😀. That's my PC way of implying verbal castigation, which in most cases can be more deleterious than any physical force due to psychological damage ensuing from precise manipulation. This doesn't get me riled up; few things do. I function on pure reason encompassing infinity (most of the time).

Cheers ! 🙂
 


<< << I like the argument where it was said that in order to break the glass ceiling women should get jobs and work for it. Speak with your actions. >>



This makes the assumption that a women will get the same salary, promotions and benefits that a man would for putting in the same effort, which is not always the case. >>



actually no. i know that life is unfair. what i am saying is that, if we want to make it fair, the only way to change it is by example, not by whining. >>



Right, that is what is was trying to say. Instead of whining about all of the trivial thing go out and actually do what you say, make an example of yourself for other women.
 


<< You've never heard me "talk" to people . That's my PC way of implying verbal castigation, which in most cases can be more deleterious than any physical force due to psychological damage ensuing from precise manipulation. This doesn't get me riled up; few things do. I function on pure reason encompassing infinity (most of the time).

Cheers ! >>




😀
 


<< Right, that is what is was trying to say. Instead of whining about all of the trivial thing go out and actually do what you say, make an example of yourself for other women. >>


So..... you spend 15 years making an 'example' of yourself, working your arse off and still you find you are getting paid less than the ball holder working next to you.
Tell me what you would do in that situation ?

As for the barbie stuff, as far as I can see we are our own worst enemies. As long as women are lining up to get implants instead of saying 'take me as I am or piss off' then they have no one to blame but themselves.
 
So..... you spend 15 years making an 'example' of yourself, working your arse off and still you find you are getting paid less than the ball holder working next to you.
Tell me what you would do in that situation ?

well first off, i can think of no cause that i care enough about to do that. but anybody that does choose to go that route should realize that change is no immediate. it takes generations. you're not doing this for yourself, you're doing this for future generations. such people have my utmost respect.

As for the barbie stuff, as far as I can see we are our own worst enemies. As long as women are lining up to get implants instead of saying 'take me as I am or piss off' then they have no one to blame but themselves.

aye, not only that, but by complaining about some child's toy, modern day feminists are taking attention away from issues that really do matter, not to mention making feminists in general look bad.
 


<< So..... you spend 15 years making an 'example' of yourself, working your arse off and still you find you are getting paid less than the ball holder working next to you.
Tell me what you would do in that situation ? >>



I agree with you there. I believe, though, that society has progressed enough where most of the time if you work you a$$ off and are good at what you do no matter who you are good things will happen. Then again you are right in that some women are held back soley for the reason they are women, not relating to how much they can give out. Prejudice is still engraved in our society by everyone, not just males and not just whites. It is just one of the lousy attributes attached with being human. Prejudice can be prevented, but I do not think by laws. Society itself needs to want to be more tolerant of others and promote equality, laws forcing you to tolerate others just make people more intolerant. I have no idea how we can solve the issue, but this constant "you will accept me or else" attitude is definately not it.



<< As for the barbie stuff, as far as I can see we are our own worst enemies. As long as women are lining up to get implants instead of saying 'take me as I am or piss off' then they have no one to blame but themselves. >>



agreed.
 
Does anyone know of RELIABLE data regarding m vs. f salaries corrected for time on the job? What I have seen reflects the fact that on average women have less time in. In other words, how do women working the same job for the same time compare to men in terms of wages?
 
The Wage Gap By Education, Race, and Gender (from the National Committee on Pay Equity )
The following figures reflect the median earnings for full-time, year-round workers, 25 years and older.


High School Graduate- Bachelor's- Master's
All Men $32,098 $51,005 $61,776
White $33,147 $51,606 $61,691
Black $27,408 $40,805 $52,308
Hispanic $25,291 $41,467 $50,410




High School Graduate - Bachelor's- Master's
All Women $21,970 $36,340 $45,345
White $22,247 $36,672 $45,772
Black $20,609 $34,692 $41,780
Hispanic $19,923 $31,996 $43,718

Overall:

-The median earnings for a Hispanic woman with a college degree are $2,843 less than the median earnings for a non-Hispanic white man with a high school education.
-On the average, a woman who has a Masters' Degree makes $5,660 less than a man with a college degree.
-The median wages of female college graduates fall behind those of male college graduates by $14,665.
-On average, a Hispanic male with a Master's makes $1,474 less than his white non-Hispanic counterpart who just has a Bachelor's degree.

---------------------------------------------

Although the above figures don?t take into account experience (time in the workforce) if you look at the comment about female college graduates versus male college graduates and take into account that they would probably have the same amount of experience there is a huge discrepancy in pay.
 
i don't want to sound too picky, but they don't say what the degrees are in! i know a lot of girls who are majoring in some major like english or women's studies, so of course they don't make as much as some guy who majors in CS or EE
 
You arent being picky at all, I totally agree, it was just the best one I could find.
I wish that these surveys would give more information.
 


<< You arent being picky at all, I totally agree, it was just the best one I could find.
I wish that these surveys would give more information. >>



yea i hate surveys... they're almost always biased, or they don't give enough information or whatever. there's always something wrong with them! i was looking over some stats on a smaller scale though (info from universities about their faculty), and it's interesting, there are a lot of times when they make around the same, some when the males make more, and some when the women make more! i would have not expected the woman making more part 🙂
 
Kassy, the question I have about such statistics can be illustrated by this example

Most grade school teachers are female. They WANT this job, not a default career. Education level BA, BS or higher
Most engineers are male. They chose that profession. Education level about the same (at least in terms of degree)

Now who makes the most money? The man. Why? With the kind of statistics you show, it might be because men inherently make more, but in fact most engineers make more than grade school teachers. Lets not get into the merits of each job and what they are worth to society. That is a tangential road im not going down right now.

What I want to know is simple. If a man and a woman is an engineer (or teacher) and have the same position and time in, is there a statistically significant difference in wages.

People are paid for the type of work they do. A phd pumping gas because he/she cant get work in their chosen field because of funding is a victim of economics, not sexism.
 
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