brandonbull
Diamond Member
- May 3, 2005
- 6,365
- 1,223
- 126
What are the costs of these friendly "random SSN selectors"? Aren't they producing a negative impact to the economy?
What are the costs of these friendly "random SSN selectors"? Aren't they producing a negative impact to the economy?
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
- 6
- 81
I posted in depth about this on last page, there is also a post currently floating around about neo-liberalism, what this immigration issue is really about.
Good reading on NAFTA rapage of our neighbors
Current neoliberalism post
The truth of the matter is not as easy as coming to the conclusion all mexicans are lazy and out to scam us for free medical care etc. but then usually the easiest excuses are just that; excuses for the mentally lazy someone else comes up with to cover their asses.
Probably not, but it is the only thing I can try to pressure my congressmen to do anything about. I can't do anything about big companies outsourcing their jobs, but it really irks me that big companies that have jobs (such as packing plant jobs) that can't be outsourced can get away with hiring illegals. Estimates for such jobs say that 14% of the their workforce are illegals, not Mexicans, ILLEGALS.
I don't think the Mexicans are lazy, not one bit and I know they are just trying to better themselves, but the fact of the matter is that they are willing to do so at the expense of legal Americans. Why don't we open the floodgates and freely let in as many doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. that want to come to our country?? Oh wait, that's ILLEGAL. F'in hypocrites.
We had a Swift plant in our town years ago (15??) and you know what, all of a sudden we had hundreds of Mexicans in town. The people here knew that t was because Swift was too cheap to pay a decent wage and enough people fought it and complained that we basically chased them out of town. A fellow I knew for years was the HR director and he got chased out of town also. Anyway, Swift sold the plant, it ran for a few years and then the owner sold it to Smithfeild who promtely closed it down. They just bought it to elminate the competition. That was 9 years ago and this town has suffered greatly since then (not that you care). It is a town of less the 12,000 people and the packing plant was by far the largest employer in town with almost 400 jobs.
As a side note, we have Hutterite colonies around here, they are collectives. No one get's paid, they can't even own TV's. They grow all their own food, have their own schools and basicalyy contibute nothing to the local economy. The colonies just keep growing and buying more land. In the last 30 years they have went from struggling to being very well off. Well, most of the colonies around here (4 or 5) have gotten into raising turkeys. They built their own turkey processing plant in town and it opened about a year ago. It wasn't open 2 weeks and the working conditions were so bad that half. yes half the work force walked off the job, just quit on the spot. Half, I'm not exagerating.
Well, guess what. We now have 100's of Mexicans back in town. Oh, that HR director I knew that worked for Swift, he's back too and in charge of HR at the plant. What many people don't realize is that these companies actually go out and recurit illegals. They're not nearly as innocent/ignorant as they would have you believe. Nobody holds them accountable for it, so they just keep doing it
I feel that I have as much empathy for the illegals and the companies hiring them as they have for me. Comma, period, end of story.
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
- 6
- 81
You crying over spilled milk though, they are here, and the country is not falling apart, so we are back to how do we get them not being used and taken advantage of screwing us all.
The faster people come to their senses on the issue the faster we don't have migrants being a problem. (And I do agree that it is a problem)
You cannot round em up to deport, you cannot shoot them all, you cannot lock em all up, they are part of our economy now like it or not and we are doing just fine, we would be doing even better if they were legit, keeping them as a sub-class is outright dangerous to a society for them as it is for us.
I think you just need to get over the anger and take it from there, life and history do not follow any rules or borders in the long run. It will be ok, Mexicans are not coming to take anything from you. -Relax already
The thing is I know you refuse to accept is that America has always dealt with hordes of immigrants, some pretty wild and lawless making these Mexicans look pretty tame.
And in the end we ALWAYS prospered because the people who made the difference used a cool head and did not buy into the "migraphobia".
You know it is true:
I know you have heard this before:
When life hands you lemons, make lemonade
^ That is the American way.
I am going to say one more thing, in my town we have probably more Mexicans in a very small area then everyone in your whole freaking state.
None of this fearmongering stuff you are being fed is true, they are people like anyone else and some make even better neighbors then the whites who tend to be kinda isolationist, paranoid, nosy, and selfish when it comes to taking part in the community. -Take that as you will.
The faster people come to their senses on the issue the faster we don't have migrants being a problem. (And I do agree that it is a problem)
You cannot round em up to deport, you cannot shoot them all, you cannot lock em all up, they are part of our economy now like it or not and we are doing just fine, we would be doing even better if they were legit, keeping them as a sub-class is outright dangerous to a society for them as it is for us.
I think you just need to get over the anger and take it from there, life and history do not follow any rules or borders in the long run. It will be ok, Mexicans are not coming to take anything from you. -Relax already
The thing is I know you refuse to accept is that America has always dealt with hordes of immigrants, some pretty wild and lawless making these Mexicans look pretty tame.
And in the end we ALWAYS prospered because the people who made the difference used a cool head and did not buy into the "migraphobia".
You know it is true:
I know you have heard this before:
When life hands you lemons, make lemonade
^ That is the American way.
I am going to say one more thing, in my town we have probably more Mexicans in a very small area then everyone in your whole freaking state.
None of this fearmongering stuff you are being fed is true, they are people like anyone else and some make even better neighbors then the whites who tend to be kinda isolationist, paranoid, nosy, and selfish when it comes to taking part in the community. -Take that as you will.
Obviously you haven't lived what I have lived. When I moved to this town over 28 years ago the packing plant was owned by John Morell & Co. The packing house workers then were making as much as the workers in the turkey plant are now, and they didn't have to work as hard to get it. It's hurt our economy, for example, I bought my house in 1980 (with a 10% intrest rate on the mortage) for $32,000 and it's value hasn't even doubled yet. I would guess I could get $55,000, maybe $60,000 if I lucked out. We've been losing ground and been abused for years. I don't need illegals moving in and extending that abuse even longer. I have enough of my own problems, I don't need their problems on top of it.
This is South Dakota, not California. Our wages here are already low. We consistenly rank from 47th to 50th in per capita income and at the same time we rank in the top 3 for the number of two income households. So think about that, we have close to the highest number of people per capita working and yet the lowest per capita income... and it's always been that way. It's not entirely by choice either. Wages are so low you can't survive on just one income. There is not even one houshold in my neighborhood that has a stay at home Mom. I can't even think of anyone I know who is a stay at home Moms, although I see plenty of Mexican Mom's with kids playing in one of the parks during the day.
I can think of several couples who between the two of them have 3 jobs.
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
- 6
- 81
And how do you know that this woman was not watching a few families children?
You don't; you are assuming things with no proof, this is a common thing they do for one another.
And please, I live smack dab in the middle of the most expensive city in the country, and we are loaded with Mexicans, everyone and their dog are temp employees working paycheck to paycheck with 1000s of dollars of rent to pay each month.
Maybe we are just more creative on how to make money in the city? I dunno, I almost always make do even if I have to go hang signs out in my neighborhood to do on the side PC repairs.
You don't; you are assuming things with no proof, this is a common thing they do for one another.
And please, I live smack dab in the middle of the most expensive city in the country, and we are loaded with Mexicans, everyone and their dog are temp employees working paycheck to paycheck with 1000s of dollars of rent to pay each month.
Maybe we are just more creative on how to make money in the city? I dunno, I almost always make do even if I have to go hang signs out in my neighborhood to do on the side PC repairs.
daniel1113
Diamond Member
- Jun 6, 2003
- 6,448
- 0
- 0
It wasn't just one Mexican mom it was several and in several different parks.
What things are like where you live is NOT indicitive of how things are where I live. Not even close. We're so backwoods here that Walmart just made it to town this year.
Our shopping mall had a JC Penney's on one end and a Kmart on the other with lot's of little stores in between them. It's empty now except for the Kmart and I wouldn't be surprised if Walmart doesn't force them to close. For a while a credit card company ran a service center out of the old JC Penney's store and they actually had some decent jobs. $10 an hour to start and benifits. That lasted for about 2 years and then those jobs went to India.
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
- 6
- 81
This is not related to mexicans though, Wal-mart is a scourge to American rural towns everywhere, I have seen and heard the same story a million times.
I am very glad SF will not allow a Wal-Mart here.
I haven't been to one in about 10 years and was dragged kicking and screaming into it by a GFs mom as a favor. Never again.
I am very glad SF will not allow a Wal-Mart here.
I haven't been to one in about 10 years and was dragged kicking and screaming into it by a GFs mom as a favor. Never again.
From one of the articles:
261 illegals at the Greely plant. Do you by chance know how many workers they have on the floor there?
Yeah, because it certainly cannot police itself.
How can you hold someone guilty for hiring an illegal immigrant when you will kick these people out of the country? If the US government will not kick out illegals, have courts that prevent it, how dare they make someone else comply, let alone take money from them for not adhereing to a law the government itself does not follow.
daniel1113
Diamond Member
- Jun 6, 2003
- 6,448
- 0
- 0
If it were 2000, then 261 illegals would be 13% of the workforce, so the Pew estimate of 14% might be pretty close. I know around here it's higher then that.
Agreed. 11 months?:laugh:
All any company has do is, announce that reps from ICE & Immigration will be at the company on such-and-such a date (no need for the authorities to actually show up). Employees that call in sick that day or don't show up, are required to bring in documentation when they return to work. You'd find out in 2 days who's legal and who's not.
11 months
- Oct 30, 2000
- 42,589
- 5
- 0
Swift did that in Marshalltown, IA
the raid netted 90 people.
The day before the raid, 400 employees stopped working after Swift "requestioned" them in their I9 forms.
The Feds had asked them not to do so in advance.
Those 400 and their families will just meld into the communities for a few weeks and then head back to Swift and others.
School districts are upset becuase the loss of students will reduce funding levels.
the raid netted 90 people.
The day before the raid, 400 employees stopped working after Swift "requestioned" them in their I9 forms.
The Feds had asked them not to do so in advance.
Those 400 and their families will just meld into the communities for a few weeks and then head back to Swift and others.
School districts are upset becuase the loss of students will reduce funding levels.
On the same subject:
Calif. company faces immigration charges By ELLIOT SPAGAT, Associated Press Writer, Thu Dec 14, 3:42 PM ET
SAN DIEGO - A Southern California fence-building company and two executives pleaded guilty Thursday to knowingly hiring illegal immigrants and agreed to pay a combined penalty of $5 million. The executives could also go to prison.
The penalty is one of the biggest fines ever imposed in an immigration case, and the case represents a rare instance in which prosecutors brought criminal charges over the hiring of illegal immigrants.
Golden State Fence Co. will pay $4.7 million. Mel Kay, 64, the company's founder, chairman and president, will forfeit $200,000, and Michael McLaughlin, 42, a manager in the company's Oceanside office, will pay $100,000.
The two men admitted hiring at least 10 illegal immigrants.
"People slip through the cracks and that's what happens. Mistakes were made," Richard Hirsch, an attorney for Golden State and Kay.
Hirsch said prosecutors plan to ask for six months behind bars for the two men at sentencing March 28. The maximum sentence is five years. Prison time is unusual in such cases.
Among Golden State Fence's projects in recent years was construction of part of a 14-mile border fence in San Diego in the late 1990s.
Last year, in one of the biggest cases of its kind, Wal-Mart agreed to pay $11 million to end a federal investigation into the use of illegal immigrants at stores in 21 states.
Companies are rarely hit with criminal charges for hiring illegal immigrants.
"You have show a kind of criminal conspiracy," said Steven Camarota, research director of the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, a group that advocates tighter immigration controls. "The mere hiring of illegals is not enough."
The illegal hiring took place between 1999 and 2005.
U.S. immigration officials said last year that 100 employees at Golden State Fence's Riverside office were unauthorized to work, including three whom the company had been ordered not to employ after a 1999 audit by the government.
Golden State, which has 750 employees, saw sales soar from $60 million in 1998 to $150 million in 2004, according to a biography of Kay provided by the company.
The plea bargain comes just days after federal authorities raided meat processing plants in six states as part of an investigation into the stealing and selling of identity documents so illegal immigrants could get jobs.
Calif. company faces immigration charges By ELLIOT SPAGAT, Associated Press Writer, Thu Dec 14, 3:42 PM ET
SAN DIEGO - A Southern California fence-building company and two executives pleaded guilty Thursday to knowingly hiring illegal immigrants and agreed to pay a combined penalty of $5 million. The executives could also go to prison.
The penalty is one of the biggest fines ever imposed in an immigration case, and the case represents a rare instance in which prosecutors brought criminal charges over the hiring of illegal immigrants.
Golden State Fence Co. will pay $4.7 million. Mel Kay, 64, the company's founder, chairman and president, will forfeit $200,000, and Michael McLaughlin, 42, a manager in the company's Oceanside office, will pay $100,000.
The two men admitted hiring at least 10 illegal immigrants.
"People slip through the cracks and that's what happens. Mistakes were made," Richard Hirsch, an attorney for Golden State and Kay.
Hirsch said prosecutors plan to ask for six months behind bars for the two men at sentencing March 28. The maximum sentence is five years. Prison time is unusual in such cases.
Among Golden State Fence's projects in recent years was construction of part of a 14-mile border fence in San Diego in the late 1990s.
Last year, in one of the biggest cases of its kind, Wal-Mart agreed to pay $11 million to end a federal investigation into the use of illegal immigrants at stores in 21 states.
Companies are rarely hit with criminal charges for hiring illegal immigrants.
"You have show a kind of criminal conspiracy," said Steven Camarota, research director of the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, a group that advocates tighter immigration controls. "The mere hiring of illegals is not enough."
The illegal hiring took place between 1999 and 2005.
U.S. immigration officials said last year that 100 employees at Golden State Fence's Riverside office were unauthorized to work, including three whom the company had been ordered not to employ after a 1999 audit by the government.
Golden State, which has 750 employees, saw sales soar from $60 million in 1998 to $150 million in 2004, according to a biography of Kay provided by the company.
The plea bargain comes just days after federal authorities raided meat processing plants in six states as part of an investigation into the stealing and selling of identity documents so illegal immigrants could get jobs.
Jaskalas
Lifer
- Jun 23, 2004
- 35,918
- 10,243
- 136
Thought I'd keep you up to date on this.
Hopeful applicants look to find open jobs at Swift & Co.
Yup, those horrific jobs Americans won?t do. Oh wait, apparently we do and we even say ?they pay good?.
Hopeful applicants look to find open jobs at Swift & Co.
Yup, those horrific jobs Americans won?t do. Oh wait, apparently we do and we even say ?they pay good?.
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