Federal raid under way at Swift & Co. plants

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1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Here ya go:

The growing presence of undocumented workers in the nation's meatpacking facilities is hardly a new issue.

In March, the Pew Hispanic Center estimated the about 14 percent of the workers in the food manufacturing facilities were undocumented immigrants.The Washington-based think tank said that only private households ranked higher in the percentage of workers illegally in the U.S.

Feds raid 6 Swift meat plants

14% of the workforce in these types of jobs are illegals and from my observations around I think that number is conservative.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
This is a problem union-busting conservatives have brought to us, let these factories unionize again and let them once again regulate the sleazebags dropping wages and taking advantage of people -this is what unions are there are for.

César Chávez knew the time back then, and it is the answer we need again.

Dropping NAFTA and CAFTA treaties would also be a huge step, stop forcing millions of small central american farmers and laborers out of business and forced to migrate north where their livelihoods went to in the name of massive profit for already subsidized US multinational agri-buisness, you cannot expect people to be able to compete with a rigged system against them to survive.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Everybody likes cheap labor..... except of course cheap labor.

Both sides of the aisle know real Americans are fed up with this crap, so I think this is mostly just a grandstanding stunt to make it look like "their side" is actually doing something about it.

I mean, 4000 people caught out of 20 million?? At that rate it will take 5000 years to catch all the illegals.

Even a palace is started with just one brick....
 

Zedtom

Platinum Member
Nov 23, 2001
2,146
0
0
There were protesters at the Swift plant in Greeley, Colorado who were suggesting a boycott of Swift products. That's real intelligent. They are complaining that their friends and relatives are being arrested, then they want to punish their employer.

I do have to admit that the idea of boycotting companies who do hire illegals sounds like a good idea, but that means giving up eating at restaurants.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
This is a problem union-busting conservatives have brought to us, let these factories unionize again and let them once again regulate the sleazebags dropping wages and taking advantage of people -this is what unions are there are for.

César Chávez knew the time back then, and it is the answer we need again.

Dropping NAFTA and CAFTA treaties would also be a huge step, stop forcing millions of small central american farmers and laborers out of business and forced to migrate north where their livelihoods went to in the name of massive profit for already subsidized US multinational agri-buisness, you cannot expect people to be able to compete with a rigged system against them to survive.

How does the treaties force the small central american farmers out of business.

It thought that the purpose was to encourage the free flow of trade.

Where is the subsidies for the multinational agri-business that have all these undocumented workers.

 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Everybody likes cheap labor..... except of course cheap labor.

Both sides of the aisle know real Americans are fed up with this crap, so I think this is mostly just a grandstanding stunt to make it look like "their side" is actually doing something about it.

I mean, 4000 people caught out of 20 million?? At that rate it will take 5000 years to catch all the illegals.

Even a palace is started with just one brick....

True, but who can wait around 5000 years before they can move into the palace?
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,913
5,016
136
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: LauraBush
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: techs
It's good what they are doing.
Yet, it is far too little to have any effect.
In fact, it is probably just some p.r. to make it look like the government is doing something.
What are there, like 10 million illegals?
And they are going to catch maybe 100?
More than they catch will come into the US that same day.

By this reasonong, why prosecute ANY crime at all? I mean, most rapists never get caught...most killers never get caught....most drug peddlers never get caught....most molesters never get caught.....

No, most criminals eventually get caught.


Well, not most:

Unsolved murders in USA from 2005: 38% (per FBI)
http://ask.yahoo.com/20060531.html

Unsolved rapes in 2005: 59% of reported cases
http://www.newsday.com/news/printeditio...ny-uscrim194897747sep19,0,978636.story

Shall I go on?

Good linkage.

However;

What you are illustrating is an entirely separate issue.

She said "most criminals eventually get caught".

That does not imply that "all crimes are eventually solved".

Someone who is convicted of a crime usually doesn't cop to all the other crimes they've done.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
This is a problem union-busting conservatives have brought to us, let these factories unionize again and let them once again regulate the sleazebags dropping wages and taking advantage of people -this is what unions are there are for.

César Chávez knew the time back then, and it is the answer we need again.

Dropping NAFTA and CAFTA treaties would also be a huge step, stop forcing millions of small central american farmers and laborers out of business and forced to migrate north where their livelihoods went to in the name of massive profit for already subsidized US multinational agri-buisness, you cannot expect people to be able to compete with a rigged system against them to survive.

How does the treaties force the small central american farmers out of business.

It thought that the purpose was to encourage the free flow of trade.

Where is the subsidies for the multinational agri-business that have all these undocumented workers.

Utterly clueless!

The agri business HERE is subsidized (Mainly Midwest) and they are dumping crops into mexico and S. America through NAFTA. Why do you think there is such a mad rush of migrant workers without a pot to piss in? These people have lost their substance farms due to dumping for short term US multinational profits.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
This is a problem union-busting conservatives have brought to us, let these factories unionize again and let them once again regulate the sleazebags dropping wages and taking advantage of people -this is what unions are there are for.

César Chávez knew the time back then, and it is the answer we need again.

Dropping NAFTA and CAFTA treaties would also be a huge step, stop forcing millions of small central american farmers and laborers out of business and forced to migrate north where their livelihoods went to in the name of massive profit for already subsidized US multinational agri-buisness, you cannot expect people to be able to compete with a rigged system against them to survive.

How does the treaties force the small central american farmers out of business.

It thought that the purpose was to encourage the free flow of trade.

Where is the subsidies for the multinational agri-business that have all these undocumented workers.

Utterly clueless!

The agri business HERE is subsidized (Mainly Midwest) and they are dumping crops into mexico and S. America through NAFTA. Why do you think there is such a mad rush of migrant workers without a pot to piss in? These people have lost their substance farms due to dumping for short term US multinational profits.

You mean it's cheaper for them to buy our food then it is for them to grow their own?
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2003/1103wise.html">Fields of Free Trade
Mexico's Small Farmers in a Global Economy</a>


Mexican farmers provided the protests' largest contingent, and not just because the meeting took place on their own embattled soil. Based on their experiences under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) and the free-trade model that it embodies, they had a lot to say. Farmers of maize and other grains, who produce for subsistence and for local and regional markets, have been hardest hit by liberalization, with imports from the United States driving prices down to unsustainable levels. But much of the export sector has suffered as well, with gains in industrial tomato farming more than offset by sharp declines in coffee, Mexico's most important export crop in both employment and output.

Mexico's small-scale farmers came together last winter to demand that their government renegotiate NAFTA's agricultural provisions and establish new policies for the countryside. While they have thus far failed to win a commitment from the pro-free trade administration of Vicente Fox to renegotiate NAFTA, last spring they secured new funds for rural development and a promise to assess the agreement's impact on small farmers and to take measures to defend and promote the sector. Whether the movement can hold Fox to those promises remains to be seen, but the farmers' rejection of the neoliberal model is here to stay.

A closer look at the experiences of Mexican farmers of corn and coffee?the country's largest domestic and export crops which directly support some 20 million of the country's 100 million people?illustrates the perils of agricultural trade liberalization. Farmers' responses to the crisis and their policy proposals present a useful starting point for an alternative approach to rural development, one that recognizes the limits of trade, the importance of domestic food sources, and the value of peasant production.
Unrealized Promises

Although some policy-makers still point to Mexico as a success story, there is a growing consensus that the free trade experiment?which began well before NAFTA's inception in 1994?has not lived up to expectations. Its failures are all the more striking given Mexico's indisputable success in transforming one of the world's most protected economies into one of the most open and in attracting the foreign investment needed to capitalize such a transformation. Since 1985, when Mexico began its rapid liberalization process, exports have doubled and foreign direct investment has nearly tripled. According to the promises of free-trade proponents, with inflation in check, Mexico should have reaped the rewards of liberalization. It hasn't. Growth has been slow, job creation has been sluggish, wages have declined, poverty has increased, and the environment has taken a beating. (See "Free Trade's Unkept Promises," page 17.)

In many ways, Mexico got what NAFTA promised: trade and investment. Unfortunately, these have not translated into benefits for the Mexican population as a whole or into improvements in the country's fragile environment. And there is little question that rural Mexico has suffered the greatest decline.



Neo-liberalism free trade agreements are anything but, they benefit the biggest and rape the smallest countries, and we do not allow free flow of labour to make up for the consequences of making a "global economy".

This is why people like Chavez are so popular, Americans are NOT getting the whole story of the consequences of what our "free trade" are doing to our neighbors.

Instead they call mexicans lazy and looking for handouts..It is infuriating to the rest of the world.

MILLIONS of people do not just pack up and move for no reason.

Check out this thread

This guy is on the right track.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: Steeplerot

MILLIONS of people do not just pack up and move for no reason.

They have a reason, they have a better life here and at the american blue collar workers expense. What we consider cheap wages is big bucks to them, that's why they're here.

How do these poor, starving people find their way to my town, 2000 miles away from their homes? That's a long way for a starving familiy to walk.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Immigration Flood Unleashed by NAFTA's Disastrous Impact on Mexican Economy

Link


The recent ferment on immigration policy has been so narrow that it has excluded the real issue: family-sustaining wages for workers both north and south of the border. The role of the North American Free Trade Agreement and misnamed 'free trade' has been scarcely mentioned in the increasingly bitter debate over the fate of America's 11 to 12 million illegal aliens.

NAFTA was sold to the American public as the magic formula that would improve the American economy at the same time it would raise up the impoverished Mexican economy. The time has come to look at the failures of this type of trade agreement before we engage in more and lower the economic prospects of all workers affected.

While there has been some media coverage of NAFTA's ruinous impact on US industrial communities, there has been even less media attention paid to its catastrophic effects in Mexico:

* NAFTA, by permitting heavily-subsidized US corn and other agri-business products to compete with small Mexican farmers, has driven the Mexican farmer off the land due to low-priced imports of US corn and other agricultural products. Some 2 million Mexicans have been forced out of agriculture, and many of those that remain are living in desperate poverty. These people are among those that cross the border to feed their families. (Meanwhile, corn-based tortilla prices climbed by 50%. No wonder many so Mexican peasants have called NAFTA their 'death warrant.'
* NAFTA's service-sector rules allowed big firms like Wal-Mart to enter the Mexican market and, selling low-priced goods made by ultra-cheap labor in China, to displace locally-based shoe, toy, and candy firms. An estimated 28,000 small and medium-sized Mexican businesses have been eliminated.
* Wages along the Mexican border have actually been driven down by about 25% since NAFTA, reported a Carnegie Endowment study. An over-supply of workers, combined with the crushing of union organizing drives as government policy, has resulted in sweatshop pay running sweatshops along the border where wages typically run 60 cents to $1 an hour.

So rather than improving living standards, Mexican wages have actually fallen since NAFTA. The initial growth in the number of jobs has leveled off, with China's even more repressive labor system luring US firms to locate there instead.

But Mexicans must still contend with the results of the American-owned 'maquiladora' sweatshops: subsistence-level wages, pollution, congestion, horrible living conditions (cardboard shacks and open sewers), and a lack of resources (for streetlights and police) to deal with a wave of violence against vulnerable young women working in the factories. The survival (or less) level wages coupled with harsh working conditions have not been the great answer to Mexican poverty, while they have temporarily been the answer to Corporate America's demand for low wages.

With US firms unwilling to pay even minimal taxes, NAFTA has hardly produced the promised uplift in the lives of Mexicans. Ciudad Juarez Mayor Gustavo Elizondo, whose city is crammed with US-owned low-wage plants, expressed it plainly: "We have no way to provide water, sewage, and sanitation workers. Every year, we get poorer and poorer even though we create more and more wealth."

Falling industrial wages, peasants forced off the land, small businesses liquidated, growing poverty: these are direct consequences of NAFTA. This harsh suffering explains why so many desperate Mexicans -- lured to the border area in the false hope that they could find dignity in the US-owned maquiladoras -- are willing to risk their lives to cross the border to provide for their families. There were 2.5 million Mexican illegals in 1995; 8 million have crossed the border since then. In 2005, some 400 desperate Mexicans died trying to enter the US.

NAFTA failed to curb illegal immigration precisely because it was never designed as a genuine development program crafted to promote rising living standards, health care, environmental cleanup, and worker rights in Mexico. The wholesale surge of Mexicans across the border dramatically illustrates that NAFTA was no attempt at a broad uplift of living conditions and democracy in Mexico, but a formula for government-sanctioned corporate plunder benefiting elites on both sides of the border.

NAFTA essentially annexed Mexico as a low-wage industrial suburb of the US and opened Mexican markets to heavily-subsidized US agribusiness products, blowing away local producers. Capital could flow freely across the border to low-wage factories and Wal-mart-type retailers, but the same standard of free access would be denied to Mexican workers.

Meanwhile, with the planned Central American Free Trade Agreement with five Central American nations coming up, we can anticipate even greater pressure on our borders as agricultural workers are pushed off the land without positive, alternative employment opportunities. People from Guatemala and Honduras will soon learn that they can't compete for industrial jobs with the most oppressed people in say, China, by agreeing to lowering their wages even more. Further, impoverished Central American countries don't have the resources to deal with the pollution and crime that results from moving people from rural areas to the city, often without their families.

Thus far, we have been presented with a narrow range of options to cope with the tide of illegal immigrants living fearfully in the shadows of American life. Should they simply be walled off and criminalized, as Sensenbrenner and House Republicans suggest? The Sensenbrenner option seeks to exploit the sentiment that illegal immigrants entering the US -- rather than US corporations exiting the US for Mexico and China -- are the primary cause of falling wages for most Americans.

The Bush version is only slightly different, envisioning the "illegal immigrants" as part of a vast disposable pool of cheap labor with no meaningful rights on the job or even the right to vote, to be returned to Mexico upon the whim of their employers.

Yet there is another well-known path of economic and social integration that has been ignored in the debates over immigration in the US: the one followed by the European Union and their "social charter" calling for decent wages, health care, and extensive retraining in all nations. Before then-impoverished nations like Spain, Greece and Portugal were admitted, they received massive EU investments in roads, health care, clean water, and education. The implementation of democracy, including worker rights, was an equally vital pre-condition for entry into the EU.

The underlying concept: the entire reason for trade is to provide improved lives across borders, not to exploit the cheapest labor and weakest environmental rules. We need to question the widely-held assumption that what benefits American corporations benefits Mexican workers and American workers. An authentic plan for growth and development isn't about further enriching Wall Street, major corporations, and a handful of Mexican billionaires; it is about the creation of family-supporting jobs. It is also about a healthy environment, healthy workers, good education, and ordinary people being able to achieve their dreams.

The massive tide of illegal immigration from Mexico is merely one symptom of an economic arrangement where human needs -- not maximum profits-- are not the ultimate goal but a subject of neglect. Neither a massive, shameful barrier at the border nor a disposable guest-worker program will address the problems ignited by NAFTA.

Programs providing stable, decent employment, modern transportation, clean water, and environmental cleanup are needed to take the place of the immense NAFTA failure and allow Mexicans to live decent, hopeful lives in their native land. But such an effort is imaginable only if the aim is truly mutual uplift for all citizens in both nations, instead of the NAFTA-fueled race to the bottom.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

How do these poor, starving people find their way to my town, 2000 miles away from their homes? That's a long way for a starving familiy to walk.

I dunno, how do the poor usually get around? Hitch rides, take greyhound, hop trains.

We have loads of migrant homeless white crusty punks that come here in droves in the summer months, they travel all over like hobos across america year in year out. C'mon Ez I know you are smarter then that. The difference between the migrant Mexicans and the gutterpunks are Mexican folks actually work, a ticket to Dakota is not expensive.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

How do these poor, starving people find their way to my town, 2000 miles away from their homes? That's a long way for a starving familiy to walk.

I dunno, how do the poor usually get around? Hitch rides, take greyhound, hop trains.

We have loads of migrant homeless white crusty punks that come here in droves in the summer months, they travel all over like hobos across americ a year in year out. C'mon Ez I know you are smarter then that. These folks actually work, a ticket to Dakota is not expensive.

Make up your mind, it costs thousand to hire a coyote to get across the border, then they have to have the money for food, transportation, fake ID's, etc. According to you these people are destitute.

Your going to have a very tough time convincing me that NAFTA is the problem. Mexico is the country with the cheap labor, they should be able to build plants and undercut all our manufacturers. If they can't make that advantage work for them then they can't be too bright and we sure don't need them in our economy.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
You cannot build employment infrastructure overnight, and besides the labour is leaving in droves to go north where there are already jobs and all the money went to.

Anyhow, keep believing this, in a few years when we are forced to put this in the public spotlight don't forget who was all over this ages ago before it got even worse.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
You cannot build employment infrastructure overnight, and besides the labour is leaving in droves to go north where there are already jobs and all the money went to.
Yep, illegally I might add. Now it's time for that Kharma to catch up with them.
Anyhow, keep believing this, in a few years when we are forced to put this in the public spotlight don't forget who was all over this ages ago before it got even worse.

They've had years to build factories in Mexico. Ask yourself why haven't they? Can you think of any good reason that the rich people in Mexico don't build some factories to put there people to work in?

Anyway, I will maintain that Mexico should have had quite an advantage because of NAFTA. China is sure making cheap labor/exchange rates work for them, why couldn't Mexico do the same?
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Why would they? The rich can get rich and dump their population on us, when have the rich ever had the interests of the "lower" classes in mind. Like I said, you should know better.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Why would they? The rich can get rich and dump their population on us, when have the rich ever had the interests of the "lower" classes in mind. Like I said, you should know better.

Why would they? Why to make even more money of course. Instead they let, even encourage their people to leave putting the pressure on our resources and driving wages here down. Of course the rich like cheap labor and they stick the taxpayers witht the other burdens so they like it.

Why doesn't Mexico put their own people to work in Mexico??
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
I usually agree with you on a lot of things in this forum but I will step out of this one as I have already made my case in this thread and many times with you on this, months ago also, I do not agree that scapegoating the Mexicans is realizing the whole picture.
 

judasmachine

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2002
8,515
3
81
Wow this is going to seriously shake up Dumas. It's fifteen minutes from Cactus, TX, and where many of the employees live. It's a town of about 13,000, and most of them make their living in one way or another from the packing house there. I'm going to have to do some sniffing around and I'll come back with some first person accounts.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
This is a problem union-busting conservatives have brought to us, let these factories unionize again and let them once again regulate the sleazebags dropping wages and taking advantage of people -this is what unions are there are for.

César Chávez knew the time back then, and it is the answer we need again.

Dropping NAFTA and CAFTA treaties would also be a huge step, stop forcing millions of small central american farmers and laborers out of business and forced to migrate north where their livelihoods went to in the name of massive profit for already subsidized US multinational agri-buisness, you cannot expect people to be able to compete with a rigged system against them to survive.


Chavez hated illegals, he had goons that went out and busted illegals heads.

the front page of the Denver Post had a woman holding a sign that read.

"Please dont take my daddy away at christmas"

WTF!!! i hope they deport his criminal ass back to where he came from. Also the local news was interviewing people (with translator) on how they felt about the raid. one POS said "it isnt fair, they owe us"

I and the country doesnt owe you jack sh|t!!! :|

also on a side note, i got a call from the city clerk wanting me to come down to city hall to sign an affidavid affirming that i am an american citizen for the renewal of my business license. I said with pleasure and was down there at 9am yesterday signing the paper.

I really hope this effort by ICE and local governments isnt just smoke and mirrors. they need to keep it up and deport as many as they can get their hands on.


 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
:roll: I love the white outrage in here, you bigots are so so victimized lol and yes Chavez was against undocumented workers as it does undermine the labor movement, it is BS that he hired thugs though.

Heres to your suburbs being filled with darker skinned people so you finally get a clue. :beer:
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
:roll: I love the white outrage in here, you bigots are so so victimized lol and yes Chavez was against undocumented workers as it does undermine the labor movement, it is BS that he hired thugs though.

Heres to your suburbs being filled with darker skinned people so you finally get a clue. :beer:

when you are finished with the name calling come back when you have a real arguement.

and yes Chavez did hire thugs to beat the sh|t out illegals oh and do your own research on the subject if you need proof, im not your tutor.

 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,365
1,223
126
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
This is a problem union-busting conservatives have brought to us, let these factories unionize again and let them once again regulate the sleazebags dropping wages and taking advantage of people -this is what unions are there are for.

César Chávez knew the time back then, and it is the answer we need again.

Dropping NAFTA and CAFTA treaties would also be a huge step, stop forcing millions of small central american farmers and laborers out of business and forced to migrate north where their livelihoods went to in the name of massive profit for already subsidized US multinational agri-buisness, you cannot expect people to be able to compete with a rigged system against them to survive.

NAFTA is the reason for illegals coming to the US?

 

Jmman

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 1999
5,302
0
76
Well, I might as well throw my two cents out there. Even though I agree with this action, I think it is fairly shortsighted of some of you to simply put the blame on some amorphous "big corporation" for the illegal immigration issue. Last time I checked all of us, including myself, enjoy lower prices from certain industries that is partially due to cheap unskilled labor coming in from Mexico, etc. Somehow I think that if a pound of hamburger was $10 or a head of lettuce $7 there would be at least as much outrage over prices as there currently is over immigration.