Federal Court Tells Minorities to Stop Whining About Prayer

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Someone should attend and say "Allahu Akbar" instead of "In Jesus' Name," see how they like it.
There are a lot of 5:4 decisions that will need to be scrubbed once the court flips.

You could do that if you wished so long as you didn't do so in a way to create a public disturbance. Your First Amendment right is just as valid as the 1A rights of these commissioners.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,782
6,186
126
You could do that if you wished so long as you didn't do so in a way to create a public disturbance. Your First Amendment right is just as valid as the 1A rights of these commissioners.
Not while on the taxpayer funded job.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,202
4,401
136
I support respecting our heritage.

This nation was settled (not established) by christians and jews looking fro religious freedom. People need to respect our history.

Have you forgotten that there was several million people already here when those Christians arrived? Why is those few Christian's heritage so important?
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Not while on the taxpayer funded job.

They'd need to get said job first and then they could. The taxpayers don't seem to be bothered by this considering they've had many opportunities over the years to defeat the praying politicians at the ballot box yet haven't taken the opportunity. Personally I think prayer before legislative work is a waste of time and showboating but I'm not going to create a firestorm if they do. Folks need to realize in a society they aren't going to get their way 100% or be shielded from words or actions they personally disapprove of. Just because you're a vegetarian and think meat is morally wrong doesn't mean you can force the school cafeteria to not serve hamburger. Just because you're an atheist and think requesting the assistance of an "imaginary sky man" is stupid doesn't mean you get carte blanche on stopping all prayers in public spaces.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,613
47,219
136
They'd need to get said job first and then they could. The taxpayers don't seem to be bothered by this considering they've had many opportunities over the years to defeat the praying politicians at the ballot box yet haven't taken the opportunity. Personally I think prayer before legislative work is a waste of time and showboating but I'm not going to create a firestorm if they do. Folks need to realize in a society they aren't going to get their way 100% or be shielded from words or actions they personally disapprove of. Just because you're a vegetarian and think meat is morally wrong doesn't mean you can force the school cafeteria to not serve hamburger. Just because you're an atheist and think requesting the assistance of an "imaginary sky man" is stupid doesn't mean you get carte blanche on stopping all prayers in public spaces.

The commissioners don't actually have a first amendment right to free speech when they are acting in a public capacity as they are in this case. You have a constitutional right to promote your religion if you want to, but these commissioners are barred by the constitution from using their position to do so. So actually the first amendment gives you that right and takes that right away from people acting in a public capacity.
 

Ryland

Platinum Member
Aug 9, 2001
2,818
13
81
Just because you're an atheist and think requesting the assistance of an "imaginary sky man" is stupid doesn't mean you get carte blanche on stopping all prayers in public spaces.

Its all or none. The government either has to allow all religions to be presented or none.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,782
6,186
126
This is the kind of stuff that keeps backwards places backwards. Knock yourself out.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
68,788
26,489
136
I support respecting our heritage.

This nation was settled (not established) by christians and jews looking fro religious freedom. People need to respect our history.
Some were seeking religious freedom, others were seeking a place to continue their theocracy. People need to learn our history.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sandorski

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Its all or none. The government either has to allow all religions to be presented or none.

Per the article the politicians take turns leading the prayers, it's not that any religion is being excluded but rather none of the politicians is of another faith or saying a prayer based on another faith. Nothing is preventing someone of another faith from running for that office or offering the prayer they think appropriate should they win. Is it now the obligation of voters to select only the appropriate religious mix of candidates at the ballot box?
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,309
1,209
126
I think what Atreus is saying is it's a benefit to religious people if the government gets involved with them and their religion.

People are weak and without constant support by and from the government they may lose their religion.

Wouldn't it be great to bring the full power of the government to bear on people's religious lives.
smileys-whistling-823718.gif

Sometimes I just want to hug you. Thank you for that.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,782
6,186
126
I love how Republicans drag Jews into it, like they are doing them a favor. Jews are almost universally against Christians imposing their religion on others. Freedom to practice your religion is not same as freedom to abuse your administrative power to promote your religion. The Constitution is about things that politicians can't do, even if the voters support it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Perknose

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,613
47,219
136
I love how Republicans drag Jews into it, like they are doing them a favor. Jews are almost universally against Christians imposing their religion on others. Freedom to practice your religion is not same as freedom to abuse your administrative power to promote your religion. The Constitution is about things that politicians can't do, even if the voters support it.

If I remember right a lot of cases for why compulsory/state sanctioned sectarian public prayer should be prohibited originally came about because Jewish kids were being singled out for abuse in school, etc.
 

Azuma Hazuki

Golden Member
Jun 18, 2012
1,532
866
131
There is a line in the sand, take your pick.

Religion gives people a moral code to live by.

Atheism there is no moral code, there is no guiding light.

I'm not an atheist, but I have to put you straight on this one: religion does not give you morals. It gives you marching orders. Most atheists I know are also humanists, so they actually have morals. Religious believers, by contrast, usually subscribe to "divine command theory," which has about as much to do with morals as styrofoam packing peanuts have to do with A. hypogaea.

It's really frightening this needs to be explained to you :/ Let me try another tack: How do you know what is good and what is evil?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,782
6,186
126
Evolution gives us morals. Humans are social beings who rely on cooperation with others to survive, and killing/stealing/raping/etc makes it less likely that others will want to cooperate with you and reduces your chances of survival and passing on your genes.
Religion just takes those morals that came from evolution and cuts them with some bullshit to make it more interesting.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,279
10,192
136
Wow, big surprise. The federal 4th district is centered in Richmond, VA. Even as a kid growing up in northern Virginia, a drive south 20 miles reminded how close the deep south was. Not sure if the will be appealed to the SCOTUS.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,613
47,219
136
I'm not an atheist, but I have to put you straight on this one: religion does not give you morals. It gives you marching orders. Most atheists I know are also humanists, so they actually have morals. Religious believers, by contrast, usually subscribe to "divine command theory," which has about as much to do with morals as styrofoam packing peanuts have to do with A. hypogaea.

It's really frightening this needs to be explained to you :/ Let me try another tack: How do you know what is good and what is evil?

It's always seemed strange to me that people would entirely defer to another being as to what was good or evil. I think religion can be an important source of morality but it's hardly the only one.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
Let's do as the Bible says: public prayer=BAD, private prayer=GOOD. You know the part about those that advertise their piety by public prayer but do not practice it at all.
 

Ryland

Platinum Member
Aug 9, 2001
2,818
13
81
Per the article the politicians take turns leading the prayers, it's not that any religion is being excluded but rather none of the politicians is of another faith or saying a prayer based on another faith. Nothing is preventing someone of another faith from running for that office or offering the prayer they think appropriate should they win. Is it now the obligation of voters to select only the appropriate religious mix of candidates at the ballot box?

No, it is the politicians job to ensure an equal mix of all religions are represented.