Fed refuses to disclose recipients of $2 trillion in loans.

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: idiotekniQues
hang king paulson

this is the real wealth redistribution going on in this country - it is called upwards wealth redistribution. while the right-wing sheeples are brainwashed by their queen palin and prince joe the plumber to worry about the fascist-brown-shirt-marxist-wealth-redistributer, the right has hijacked this country.

Psssst... The Democrats voted for the bailout wholeheartedly and didn't require any kind of accountability.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: sandorski
That's a good point, wasn't really addressing that concern in my comment. There certainly needs to be oversight and I'm quite worried about who was put in charge. Bush doesn't have a good Record on appointments. 😉

That said, these moves seem reasonable given the goals of the program. It's all about getting the Credit flowing again.

How the hell is handing out $2 trillion of other people's money without even disclosing where that money is going 'reasonable?'

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: sandorski
That's a good point, wasn't really addressing that concern in my comment. There certainly needs to be oversight and I'm quite worried about who was put in charge. Bush doesn't have a good Record on appointments. 😉

That said, these moves seem reasonable given the goals of the program. It's all about getting the Credit flowing again.

How the hell is handing out $2 trillion of other people's money without even disclosing where that money is going 'reasonable?'

When $Trillions of Economic activity is at risk.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: g8wayrebel

Originally posted by: vhx
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/...cH.tY&refer=worldwide#

Nov. 10 (Bloomberg) -- The Federal Reserve is refusing to identify the recipients of almost $2 trillion of emergency loans from American taxpayers or the troubled assets the central bank is accepting as collateral.

Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said in September they would comply with congressional demands for transparency in a $700 billion bailout of the banking system. Two months later, as the Fed lends far more than that in separate rescue programs that didn't require approval by Congress, Americans have no idea where their money is going or what securities the banks are pledging in return.

``The collateral is not being adequately disclosed, and that's a big problem,'' said Dan Fuss, vice chairman of Boston- based Loomis Sayles & Co., where he co-manages $17 billion in bonds. ``In a liquid market, this wouldn't matter, but we're not. The market is very nervous and very thin.''

Bloomberg News has requested details of the Fed lending under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act and filed a federal lawsuit Nov. 7 seeking to force disclosure.

The Fed made the loans under terms of 11 programs, eight of them created in the past 15 months, in the midst of the biggest financial crisis since the Great Depression.

``It's your money; it's not the Fed's money,'' said billionaire Ted Forstmann, senior partner of Forstmann Little & Co. in New York. ``Of course there should be transparency.''
Treasury, Fed, Obama

Federal Reserve spokeswoman Michelle Smith declined to comment on the loans or the Bloomberg lawsuit. Treasury spokeswoman Michele Davis didn't respond to a phone call and an e-mail seeking comment.

President-elect Barack Obama's economic adviser, Jason Furman, also didn't respond to an e-mail and a phone call seeking comment from Obama. In a Sept. 22 campaign speech, Obama promised to ``make our government open and transparent so that anyone can ensure that our business is the people's business.''

The Fed's lending is significant because the central bank has stepped into a rescue role that was also the purpose of the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP, bailout plan -- without safeguards put into the TARP legislation by Congress.

Total Fed lending topped $2 trillion for the first time last week and has risen by 140 percent, or $1.172 trillion, in the seven weeks since Fed governors relaxed the collateral standards on Sept. 14. The difference includes a $788 billion increase in loans to banks through the Fed and $474 billion in other lending, mostly through the central bank's purchase of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac bonds.

$2 trillion taken already and we don't even know where it is going. Sadly, not even surprised anymore. When will we as Americans not take this bullshit anymore? (rhetorical: never)

Yeah , a new Democrat is exactly what you need to keep the guys who did this in line.
You asked for change, now you're going to get it!!
And they say Democrats are for the little guy?? RIGHT!!!

😕

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: sandorski
When $Trillions of Economic activity is at risk.

Would those trillions not include the $2 trillion that no one has any idea is going to end up? Many people in the financial industry have roundly criticized this outrageously secret move by the Fed.

 

[brencat]

Originally posted by: Dari
Hindsight is 20/20, right? When you were on Wall Street and and rolling in dough, were you criticizing him then? Doubtful.

Actually Dari, I was -- going back to early 2005, and all my immediate work colleagues would verify this if there was a way for you to check it. I've been talking about the imminent collapse of the housing market for years but never imagined the speed of the deleveraging that has occurred in the past 2 months. Despite all the B.S., at the end of the day 98% of the hotshot professionals with their fancy degrees and titles were dead wrong about what was going to happen one day as the credit bubble inflated. That's the only reasonable conclusion any normal person can draw from this.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Impeach Paulson, start today, a trial in the Senate tomorrow, that or the damn lying sack of shit Paulson comes up with the list of who get loans, why, and shares it with the American people.

If I had been congress, I would have fired Paulson as job one, but if he won't make good on his word on what was promised last month, he is the problem and no part of any solution.

They gave him the power to do what we wants. And if he's breaking his word? Why should Congress have trusted him in the first place?

Congress just fucked up, in every way possible, with these bailouts. Once again, Ron Paul was right.

I think you mean that, once again, Ron Paul was wrong. Has been wrong about economics his entire career;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6epCVUppjJM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMe_7-hmHHY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCnzr566RR0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTljuxZYJ9I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgCq75g_M7Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgK0vHZtwno

And I honestly hope you didn't call the bailout a failure when initial funds have barely been used/allocated yet. :laugh:

:laugh: :laugh:

If you don't know why I am laughing then you didn't listen to what you posted.

I'll give you a hint. Second link above. 😉

Talk about self-pwnage. :laugh:

The only funny thing here is that you don't actually understand what you're laughing at, nor could you point out otherwise if your life depended on it.

:laugh:

 

[Mr. Lennon]

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Impeach Paulson, start today, a trial in the Senate tomorrow, that or the damn lying sack of shit Paulson comes up with the list of who get loans, why, and shares it with the American people.

If I had been congress, I would have fired Paulson as job one, but if he won't make good on his word on what was promised last month, he is the problem and no part of any solution.

They gave him the power to do what we wants. And if he's breaking his word? Why should Congress have trusted him in the first place?

Congress just fucked up, in every way possible, with these bailouts. Once again, Ron Paul was right.

I think you mean that, once again, Ron Paul was wrong. Has been wrong about economics his entire career;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6epCVUppjJM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMe_7-hmHHY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCnzr566RR0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTljuxZYJ9I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgCq75g_M7Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgK0vHZtwno

And I honestly hope you didn't call the bailout a failure when initial funds have barely been used/allocated yet. :laugh:

:laugh: :laugh:

If you don't know why I am laughing then you didn't listen to what you posted.

I'll give you a hint. Second link above. 😉

Talk about self-pwnage. :laugh:

The only funny thing here is that you don't actually understand what you're laughing at, nor could you point out otherwise if your life depended on it.

:laugh:

Evan you fucking tool.

ARTICLE 1, SECTION 8 OF THE CONSTITUTION STATES THAT CONGRESS SHALL HAVE THE POWER TO COIN (CREATE) MONEY AND REGULATE THE VALUE THEREOF.

IN 1935 THE SUPREME COURT RULED THAT CONGRESS CANNOT CONSTITUTIONALLY DELEGATE ITS POWER TO ANOTHER GROUP. (Reference 22, P. 168)


The Federal Reserve is PRIVATELY OWNED. It is fucking illegal according to our constitution!!!!

The bail out plan is going to make the situation even worse because the reserve is printing money out of thin air! Mark my words, you will see the value of the dollar collapse within the next 10 years.


Man I'm laughing at you with bamacre now too. Ron Paul's great thoughts about a gold standard must of just flew over your head.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: sandorski
When $Trillions of Economic activity is at risk.

Would those trillions not include the $2 trillion that no one has any idea is going to end up? Many people in the financial industry have roundly criticized this outrageously secret move by the Fed.

Nope

 

[manowar821]

What happened after the Roman Empire fell?

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282
Evan you fucking tool.

ARTICLE 1, SECTION 8 OF THE CONSTITUTION STATES THAT CONGRESS SHALL HAVE THE POWER TO COIN (CREATE) MONEY AND REGULATE THE VALUE THEREOF.

IN 1935 THE SUPREME COURT RULED THAT CONGRESS CANNOT CONSTITUTIONALLY DELEGATE ITS POWER TO ANOTHER GROUP. (Reference 22, P. 168)


The Federal Reserve is PRIVATELY OWNED. It is fucking illegal according to our constitution!!!!

The bail out plan is going to make the situation even worse because the reserve is printing money out of thin air! Mark my words, you will see the value of the dollar collapse within the next 10 years.


Man I'm laughing at you with bamacre now too. Ron Paul's great thoughts about a gold standard must of just flew over your head.

Copied that directly from the MoneyMaker website eh? They're about as stupid as your average monkey, but here, I'll help you out.


http://www.publiceye.org/consp...erty/flaherty3.html#10

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, Congress has the right to make any law that is 'necessary and proper' for the execution of its enumerated powers (Art. I, Sec. 8, Cl. 18). A law creating a Bureau of the Mint, for example, is necessary and proper for the Congress to exercise its right to coin money. A similar argument may justify a central bank. It facilitates the expansion and contraction of the money supply and it serves as means to regulate the banking industry.


U.S. v. Wangrund, 533 F.2d 495; C.A.Cal. 1976
The statute establishing Federal Reserve Notes as legal tender for all debts, public and private, including taxes, is within the constitutional authority of Congress; thus the defendant could not overturn his conviction on two counts of wilful failure to make an income tax return on the theory that he did not receive money since checks he received as compensation for his services could be cashed only for Federal Reserve Notes which were not redeemable in specie. 26 USCA §61, §7203; USCA Const. art. 1, §8; Coinage Act of 1965, §102; 31 USCA §392.

The Fed is a quasi-government entity that exists only because of Congress. It is beholden to Congress at every step and must testify in front of Congress when called. It issued financials to Congress.

The rescue plan raises money through the issuance of debt, which is a far cry from "printing money out of thin air". That concept is laughable and is only thrown about by people who have no fucking clue what's going on, as evidenced by your post.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Evan
I think you mean that, once again, Ron Paul was wrong. Has been wrong about economics his entire career;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6epCVUppjJM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMe_7-hmHHY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCnzr566RR0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTljuxZYJ9I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgCq75g_M7Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgK0vHZtwno

And I honestly hope you didn't call the bailout a failure when initial funds have barely been used/allocated yet. :laugh:

:laugh: :laugh:

If you don't know why I am laughing then you didn't listen to what you posted.

I'll give you a hint. Second link above. 😉

Talk about self-pwnage. :laugh:

The only funny thing here is that you don't actually understand what you're laughing at, nor could you point out otherwise if your life depended on it.

:laugh:

I know exactly what I am laughing at. :laugh:


Keep digging that hole, Evan. 😉

 

[First]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Evan
I think you mean that, once again, Ron Paul was wrong. Has been wrong about economics his entire career;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6epCVUppjJM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMe_7-hmHHY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCnzr566RR0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTljuxZYJ9I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgCq75g_M7Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgK0vHZtwno

And I honestly hope you didn't call the bailout a failure when initial funds have barely been used/allocated yet. :laugh:

:laugh: :laugh:

If you don't know why I am laughing then you didn't listen to what you posted.

I'll give you a hint. Second link above. 😉

Talk about self-pwnage. :laugh:

The only funny thing here is that you don't actually understand what you're laughing at, nor could you point out otherwise if your life depended on it.

:laugh:

I know exactly what I am laughing at. :laugh:


Keep digging that hole, Evan. 😉

Originally posted by: Evan
nor could you point out otherwise if your life depended on it.

bump

 

[Chunkee]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: vhx
$2 trillion taken already and we don't even know where it is going. Sadly, not even surprised anymore.

When will we as Americans not take this bullshit anymore? (rhetorical: never)

Actually when you have enough people so negatively affected they can't take it anymore you will see a Revolution.

You can take that to the bank.

I like the way you think sir. Grab your pitchfork and 9mm and get ready. I am over it.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Evan

bump

Good God, Evan, do you need someone to hold your hand here? I mean, it's pretty damn simple.

I already pointed you in the right direction. Second video you posted. Did you watch it? Did you pay attention? Do you remember WHY you posted these clips?

How long do you want to drag out this self-pwnage? :laugh:

 

[First]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Evan

bump

Good God, Evan, do you need someone to hold your hand here? I mean, it's pretty damn simple.

I already pointed you in the right direction. Second video you posted. Did you watch it? Did you pay attention? Do you remember WHY you posted these clips?

How long do you want to drag out this self-pwnage? :laugh:

Originally posted by: Evan
nor could you point out otherwise if your life depended on it.

:laugh:

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Evan

bump

Good God, Evan, do you need someone to hold your hand here? I mean, it's pretty damn simple.

I already pointed you in the right direction. Second video you posted. Did you watch it? Did you pay attention? Do you remember WHY you posted these clips?

How long do you want to drag out this self-pwnage? :laugh:

Originally posted by: Evan
nor could you point out otherwise if your life depended on it.

:laugh:

Let me spare you some future shame here.

Click here.

See those pretty pictures on the left?

Does one of them look familiar?

See the text next to the one that looks familiar?

Now go back and watch the second clip you posted.

Now do you want to retract the statement you made...?

Originally posted by: Evan
I think you mean that, once again, Ron Paul was wrong. Has been wrong about economics his entire career.

I mean, I could point out other examples that prove you are wrong, but it's just beautiful to do it with your own links.

:laugh: :laugh:

 

[First]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Evan

bump

Good God, Evan, do you need someone to hold your hand here? I mean, it's pretty damn simple.

I already pointed you in the right direction. Second video you posted. Did you watch it? Did you pay attention? Do you remember WHY you posted these clips?

How long do you want to drag out this self-pwnage? :laugh:

Originally posted by: Evan
nor could you point out otherwise if your life depended on it.

:laugh:

Let me spare you some future shame here.

Click here.

See those pretty pictures on the left?

Does one of them look familiar?

See the text next to the one that looks familiar?

Now go back and watch the second clip you posted.

Now do you want to retract the statement you made...?

Originally posted by: Evan
I think you mean that, once again, Ron Paul was wrong. Has been wrong about economics his entire career.

I mean, I could point out other examples that prove you are wrong, but it's just beautiful to do it with your own links.

:laugh: :laugh:

Like I said, you couldn't actually point out what he said or how he "predicted" anything if your life depended on it. You can't get into specifics because your argument falls apart when it happens. It's why you won't get into specifics now, and why the best you can do is point to a Paulbot's interpretation of what Paul said. Think for yourself kiddo.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Evan

bump

Good God, Evan, do you need someone to hold your hand here? I mean, it's pretty damn simple.

I already pointed you in the right direction. Second video you posted. Did you watch it? Did you pay attention? Do you remember WHY you posted these clips?

How long do you want to drag out this self-pwnage? :laugh:

Originally posted by: Evan
nor could you point out otherwise if your life depended on it.

:laugh:

Let me spare you some future shame here.

Click here.

See those pretty pictures on the left?

Does one of them look familiar?

See the text next to the one that looks familiar?

Now go back and watch the second clip you posted.

Now do you want to retract the statement you made...?

Originally posted by: Evan
I think you mean that, once again, Ron Paul was wrong. Has been wrong about economics his entire career.

I mean, I could point out other examples that prove you are wrong, but it's just beautiful to do it with your own links.

:laugh: :laugh:

Like I said, you couldn't actually point out what he said or how he "predicted" anything if your life depended on it. You can't get into specifics because your argument falls apart when it happens. It's why you won't get into specifics now, and why the best you can do is point to a Paulbot's interpretation of what Paul said. Think for yourself kiddo.

OMG! Are you really this fucking stupid?

Anyone here with half a brain who is paying attention knows EXACTLY what I am talking about.

Either you aren't paying attention, or you have less than half a brain.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Evan

bump

Good God, Evan, do you need someone to hold your hand here? I mean, it's pretty damn simple.

I already pointed you in the right direction. Second video you posted. Did you watch it? Did you pay attention? Do you remember WHY you posted these clips?

How long do you want to drag out this self-pwnage? :laugh:

Originally posted by: Evan
nor could you point out otherwise if your life depended on it.

:laugh:

Let me spare you some future shame here.

Click here.

See those pretty pictures on the left?

Does one of them look familiar?

See the text next to the one that looks familiar?

Now go back and watch the second clip you posted.

Now do you want to retract the statement you made...?

Originally posted by: Evan
I think you mean that, once again, Ron Paul was wrong. Has been wrong about economics his entire career.

I mean, I could point out other examples that prove you are wrong, but it's just beautiful to do it with your own links.

:laugh: :laugh:

Like I said, you couldn't actually point out what he said or how he "predicted" anything if your life depended on it. You can't get into specifics because your argument falls apart when it happens. It's why you won't get into specifics now, and why the best you can do is point to a Paulbot's interpretation of what Paul said. Think for yourself kiddo.

OMG! Are you really this fucking stupid?

Anyone here with half a brain who is paying attention knows EXACTLY what I am talking about.

Either you aren't paying attention, or you have less than half a brain.

Dude, you are too easy to smack around :laugh: Like I said, point out what he said and why it's "self-ownage", and maybe we can have a discussion. I know exactly what he said and I'm waiting for you to fall into a well placed trap. Go ahead.

 

[bamacre]

Wow. I have pointed it out. I don't know how clear I could be. 😕

 

[First]

Originally posted by: bamacre
Wow. I have pointed it out. I don't know how clear I could be. 😕

Really, you pointed out something specific? Where?

Why not simply be specific? Having trouble? Yup.

 

[BoberFett]

Don't question him bamacre. This bailout is a boon for the world.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Don't question him bamacre. This bailout is a boon for the world.

The really stupid thing here is that he is defending the government's ability, or inability rather, to centrally plan the money and our economy. I mean, they are doing SOOOO well, that we are now up to $2 trillion in bailouts. And the number keeps going up.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: bamacre
Wow. I have pointed it out. I don't know how clear I could be. 😕

Really, you pointed out something specific? Where?

Why not simply be specific? Having trouble? Yup.

The only one having trouble here is you.