Fat loss - how to lose the bulge and gain the ripples

[Blackjack200]

I'm losing weight at about 2 lbs. per week using "Lose It!" and down about 25 lbs so far.

Up to this point I haven't added resistence training because I was really focussing on sticking to the diet, but I think I'm ready to add that now and stop losing so much muscle with the fat. I still have 25-30 pounds to go.

A couple of questions.

I like to use the Starting Strength exercises and programs, but I'm not quite sure how to use it for weight loss (the book is focussed mostly on helping people gain weight).

I understand that I'm just trying to maintain, not build muscle, but what's the best way to accomplish this? Should I increase the loads on the barbell (over the course of a week or two) until the lift is challenging, and then just leave it at that? Should I keep trying to increase the weight? Sometimes I'm nervous that I won't have enough energy to lift because of the diet.

Should I continue to try to lose 2 lbs. per week or should I increase the calories a little bit to preserve muscle?

Finally, here's what I'm eating, anything I should clean up?

Breakfast: (367 calories)
3 eggs scrambled in 1/3 tablespoon butter (w/ 3 tablespoons whole milk in the eggs)
1/2 cup 2% cottage cheese

Lunch: (500 calories)
Canned soup
1/2 cup 2% cottage cheese
Container of Greek Yogurt

Dinner1: (900 calories)
3 oz. Pasta
6 oz. grilled chicken
1 cup of broccoli
1 tablespoon butter
2 tablespoons barbeque sauce

Dinner2: (1,000 calories)
9 Turkey Meatballs
1.5 cups egg noodles
3/4 cup cream of mushroom soup
1/2 cup whole milk

My macros tend to break down like this (by calories):
Protein: 30%
Carbs: 30%-40%
Fats: 30%-40%

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I'm losing weight at about 2 lbs. per week using "Lose It!" and down about 25 lbs so far.

Up to this point I haven't added resistence training because I was really focussing on sticking to the diet, but I think I'm ready to add that now and stop losing so much muscle with the fat. I still have 25-30 pounds to go.

A couple of questions.

I like to use the Starting Strength exercises and programs, but I'm not quite sure how to use it for weight loss (the book is focussed mostly on helping people gain weight).

I understand that I'm just trying to maintain, not build muscle, but what's the best way to accomplish this? Should I increase the loads on the barbell (over the course of a week or two) until the lift is challenging, and then just leave it at that? Should I keep trying to increase the weight? Sometimes I'm nervous that I won't have enough energy to lift because of the diet.

Should I continue to try to lose 2 lbs. per week or should I increase the calories a little bit to preserve muscle?

Finally, here's what I'm eating, anything I should clean up?

Breakfast: (367 calories)
3 eggs scrambled in 1/3 tablespoon butter (w/ 3 tablespoons whole milk in the eggs)
1/2 cup 2% cottage cheese

Lunch: (500 calories)
Canned soup
1/2 cup 2% cottage cheese
Container of Greek Yogurt

Dinner1: (900 calories)
3 oz. Pasta
6 oz. grilled chicken
1 cup of broccoli
1 tablespoon butter
2 tablespoons barbeque sauce

Dinner2: (1,000 calories)
9 Turkey Meatballs
1.5 cups egg noodles
3/4 cup cream of mushroom soup
1/2 cup whole milk

My macros tend to break down like this (by calories):
Protein: 30%
Carbs: 30%-40%
Fats: 30%-40%

You should complete the lifting aspect of the Starting Strength program as it is written. Have you bought or read the Starting Strength book? You start with the bar and add 5 pounds every time you lift - no stopping, just keep progressing. It will take you a while to hit a weight that's undoable. You, however, should maintain a caloric deficit as you have been previously to continue to lose weight. It's not complicated at all

 

[Blackjack200]

You should complete the lifting aspect of the Starting Strength program as it is written. Have you bought or read the Starting Strength book? You start with the bar and add 5 pounds every time you lift - no stopping, just keep progressing. It will take you a while to hit a weight that's undoable. You, however, should maintain a caloric deficit as you have been previously to continue to lose weight. It's not complicated at all

Thanks Brent. I've read the Starting Strength book a couple of times. The first time I did the program I did indeed progress for a long time before I couldn't add weight. But I was not in a caloric deficit (in fact I was eating a very healthy amount, as the book recommended) so i assumed my body was able to repair and recover a lot faster than it is now.

I'll give it a shot.

I guess the only other problem is that I have to increase my eating on workout days to compensate for the extra calories burned. "Lose It!" says 214 calories for a 1 hour workout, so I guess I'll just go with that...

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Thanks Brent. I've read the Starting Strength book a couple of times. The first time I did the program I did indeed progress for a long time before I couldn't add weight. But I was not in a caloric deficit (in fact I was eating a very healthy amount, as the book recommended) so i assumed my body was able to repair and recover a lot faster than it is now.

I'll give it a shot.

I guess the only other problem is that I have to increase my eating on workout days to compensate for the extra calories burned. "Lose It!" says 214 calories for a 1 hour workout, so I guess I'll just go with that...

No worries. Yeah, you will recover more slowly, but at least at the beginning you should be ok. If you start to take two workouts before you progress 5lbs, then that's alright too. Listen to your body.

Strength training isn't really that demanding calorically so you won't have to increase your calories much. I do think it's a good idea to increase them slightly as your body can use whatever it gets to help repair itself from the microdamage strength training induces.

 

[Saint Nick]

I don't think anyone reads my log, so maybe someone can answer this here:

Sort of want to do a little 60-90 day cut, then maintain for a while. Due to touring this spring and summer, it will be hard for me to manage a bulking diet consistently. If I decide to cut, should I lower my sets from 5x5 to 3x5? And should I just keep the weight the same the whole time?

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I don't think anyone reads my log, so maybe someone can answer this here:

Sort of want to do a little 60-90 day cut, then maintain for a while. Due to touring this spring and summer, it will be hard for me to manage a bulking diet consistently. If I decide to cut, should I lower my sets from 5x5 to 3x5? And should I just keep the weight the same the whole time?

If you're cutting, 3x5 is much more manageable and still results in almost equivalent gains (especially when you're going heavy). It is sometimes actually preferred to avoid overtraining. However, even when cutting, you can still increase your weights. The problem will be recovery though. It will be a much slower progression, but I'd say keep pushing forward if you can. It definitely won't be 5 pounds per session. It may be 5 pounds per week, but that's still alright if you're challenging your body heavily.

 

[Saint Nick]

If you're cutting, 3x5 is much more manageable and still results in almost equivalent gains (especially when you're going heavy). It is sometimes actually preferred to avoid overtraining. However, even when cutting, you can still increase your weights. The problem will be recovery though. It will be a much slower progression, but I'd say keep pushing forward if you can. It definitely won't be 5 pounds per session. It may be 5 pounds per week, but that's still alright if you're challenging your body heavily.

When you say recovery -- do you mean within the training session, or are you talking between workout days? Or is that a detail that doesn't really matter?

I have essentially been eating at a surplus since I started a long time ago (2 years now). Just in the past six to eight months did I make the best gains by really focusing on form. I always thought that it wasn't possible to move the weights up at a caloric deficit. It would be great to focus on moving up five pounds per week or two, or even microloading.

Right now, sitting at 205-210lbs at 15%ish body fat, but I am 6' 5".

Sorry for the rambly post.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

When you say recovery -- do you mean within the training session, or are you talking between workout days? Or is that a detail that doesn't really matter?

I have essentially been eating at a surplus since I started a long time ago (2 years now). Just in the past six to eight months did I make the best gains by really focusing on form. I always thought that it wasn't possible to move the weights up at a caloric deficit. It would be great to focus on moving up five pounds per week or two, or even microloading.

Right now, sitting at 205-210lbs at 15%ish body fat, but I am 6' 5".

Sorry for the rambly post.

When I'm referring to recovery here, I'm talking about between workout days. The body takes hours and hours to repair itself in a meaningful way so I'm referring to a much longer time scale than energy system recovery between sets.

Yeah, it's not the easiest to make gains while cutting, but it's possible. You will have to be mindful of your body though. Sometimes on days that you planned an increase, you just have to shut your pride down and keep it at the same weight, lighten it up, or even take a day off. It all depends on how you body feels.

What kind of numbers are you moving for a 5x5 program now for the major lifts? No matter what, a 3x5 is gonna be easier on you either way

 

[Saint Nick]

When I'm referring to recovery here, I'm talking about between workout days. The body takes hours and hours to repair itself in a meaningful way so I'm referring to a much longer time scale than energy system recovery between sets.

Yeah, it's not the easiest to make gains while cutting, but it's possible. You will have to be mindful of your body though. Sometimes on days that you planned an increase, you just have to shut your pride down and keep it at the same weight, lighten it up, or even take a day off. It all depends on how you body feels.

What kind of numbers are you moving for a 5x5 program now for the major lifts? No matter what, a 3x5 is gonna be easier on you either way

Well, here is where I'm at right now for 5x5 (Except 1x5 on deadlift):

Squat: 245
Bench: 140
OHP: 90
Row: 120
Deadlift: 250

It has taken me a long time to get here. I am still hoping to reach 315 squat before the end of the year. That would be great! And maybe even 405 deadlift, but we'll see. Shouldn't get too ahead of myself. My bench and overhead press have always been terrible. I'd like to reach a 225 bench but I feel like that will take me a few years.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Well, here is where I'm at right now for 5x5 (Except 1x5 on deadlift):

Squat: 245
Bench: 140
OHP: 90
Row: 120
Deadlift: 250

It has taken me a long time to get here. I am still hoping to reach 315 squat before the end of the year. That would be great! And maybe even 405 deadlift, but we'll see. Shouldn't get too ahead of myself. My bench and overhead press have always been terrible. I'd like to reach a 225 bench but I feel like that will take me a few years.

I'd say you could probably continue to make some significant gains while cutting. I just wanted to make sure you weren't squatting 350+, deadlifting 400+, etc because if you were cutting and lifting that heavy of weight, it would be difficult to continue moving up. With where you're at, you should be able to continue progressing.

 

[Saint Nick]

Thanks for the info SC

 

[purbeast0]

so i got another question about the diet i was mentioning up above.

i mentioned that i like to eat sandwiches and used whole wheat bread.

well the past week i've been making chicken breasts with the slow cooker then shredding it and mixing it with a little mayo or some hot sauce. instead of making sandwiches i've been making wraps with whole wheat tortilla.

they still have some carbs in em but not as much as 2 slices of bread.

so is this basically going to be the same thing as eating sandwiches or are wraps in general better, even if they are whole wheat?

 

[mple]

You are over thinking it. Your choice of carbs for one meal is meaningless without looking at the total daily composition of your macronutrient intake. Wraps, wheat bread, white bread are interchangeable if the rest of your diet is in check.

 

[Saint Nick]

see below post

 

[Saint Nick]

I'd say you could probably continue to make some significant gains while cutting. I just wanted to make sure you weren't squatting 350+, deadlifting 400+, etc because if you were cutting and lifting that heavy of weight, it would be difficult to continue moving up. With where you're at, you should be able to continue progressing.

If I am getting weaker while on a cut, am I dieting wrong? I have read online that some people expect to lose strength while on a cut, but you stated above that strengths gains can still be had.

Haven't made it that far into the cut, but want to make sure I know when to fix things.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

If I am getting weaker while on a cut, am I dieting wrong? I have read online that some people expect to lose strength while on a cut, but you stated above that strengths gains can still be had.

Haven't made it that far into the cut, but want to make sure I know when to fix things.

It depends on your strength levels. The stronger you are, the more difficult it may be to maintain gains. If you're squatting 400+ pounds for 5 reps and then you try to lose 10 pounds, you may lose some some strength. However, with your numbers, I don't anticipate you having trouble with maintaining or even gaining strength.

 

[Saint Nick]

It depends on your strength levels. The stronger you are, the more difficult it may be to maintain gains. If you're squatting 400+ pounds for 5 reps and then you try to lose 10 pounds, you may lose some some strength. However, with your numbers, I don't anticipate you having trouble with maintaining or even gaining strength.

What is the big difference between my puny squat and 400 lbs as far as muscle maintainence goes? Why is it harder to keep muscle the stronger you get?

If you don't want to get too technical, and could supply some terms and info I can look up, that works

 

[mple]

If your goal is to pack on muscle mass and look like you lift, then I highly suggest NOT cutting weight and to continue milking the 5x5 program for all it's worth. Based on your lifts at your height/weight, you will not have anything to show for after cutting unless you are after a super slim build. If you're concerned about gaining fat too fast, then calculate a precise TDEE and consume 10% over maintenance for a leaner bulk.

 

[Saint Nick]

If your goal is to pack on muscle mass and look like you lift, then I highly suggest NOT cutting weight and to continue milking the 5x5 program for all it's worth. Based on your lifts at your height/weight, you will not have anything to show for after cutting unless you are after a super slim build. If you're concerned about gaining fat too fast, then calculate a precise TDEE and consume 10% over maintenance for a leaner bulk.

Yes, I understand this and knew this prior to my decision. The reason I'm switching diet is mostly for the convenience of eating less.

 

[mple]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlfsM45VQPU

Skip to the 2:30 mark

 

[SociallyChallenged]

What is the big difference between my puny squat and 400 lbs as far as muscle maintainence goes? Why is it harder to keep muscle the stronger you get?

If you don't want to get too technical, and could supply some terms and info I can look up, that works

There are two main things responsible for strength: neural coordination (ability to simultaneously fire your motor units - neurons and muscle units -in a coordinated fashion) and physiological cross sectional area of muscle (how big a muscle is). Let's say there's someone who weighs 200lbs and squats 250lbs. Someone who has the same muscle size, body fat, weight, etc and squats 400lbs will essentially be closer to the maximum of neural coordination. If they're lifting at this higher level of neural coordination, then they will be much more sensitive to changes in muscle size and will thus lose strength more readily while cutting weight. That's because neural gains will be slower for the person who lifts more weight at the same relative body weight.

It's essentially this: you have two factors that contribute to strength. Assume one is maxed out (neural coordination). Because of that, the only indicator of strength will be muscle size. If someone begins to cut weight, they will inevitably lose some amount of muscle mass and thus will have difficulty maintaining strength. In reality, this isn't maxed out in individuals who lift more, but it is closer to being maxed out.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

so i got another question about the diet i was mentioning up above.

i mentioned that i like to eat sandwiches and used whole wheat bread.

well the past week i've been making chicken breasts with the slow cooker then shredding it and mixing it with a little mayo or some hot sauce. instead of making sandwiches i've been making wraps with whole wheat tortilla.

they still have some carbs in em but not as much as 2 slices of bread.

so is this basically going to be the same thing as eating sandwiches or are wraps in general better, even if they are whole wheat?

It all comes down to the calorie distribution. If a wrap has 40 grams of carbs and your sandwich contains 20g of carbs per slice of bread, it's essentially the same thing. You've got to look at the nutrition details of each and just find what you're comfortable with. Wraps tend to have fewer calories, but I've seen some that are fairly calorically dense. You have to compare it yourself.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

If your goal is to pack on muscle mass and look like you lift, then I highly suggest NOT cutting weight and to continue milking the 5x5 program for all it's worth. Based on your lifts at your height/weight, you will not have anything to show for after cutting unless you are after a super slim build. If you're concerned about gaining fat too fast, then calculate a precise TDEE and consume 10% over maintenance for a leaner bulk.

This is not his goal currently.

 

[purbeast0]

It all comes down to the calorie distribution. If a wrap has 40 grams of carbs and your sandwich contains 20g of carbs per slice of bread, it's essentially the same thing. You've got to look at the nutrition details of each and just find what you're comfortable with. Wraps tend to have fewer calories, but I've seen some that are fairly calorically dense. You have to compare it yourself.

yeah gotcha. the wraps do have fewer calories and fewer carbs so i'm gonna give it a try.

i actually got almond milk today, unsweetened vanilla flavor, for the first time and made a shake with it. it's not too bad though so i'm going to give it a try for a while and see how i like it. it's definitely different tasting than normal milk.

and i noticed the conversation about losing strength while cutting and what not. that is an interesting explanation but makes sense. i always looks strength as i cut up, and typically i don't make any gains unless i'm gaining weight. usually if i'm not doing either my strength really just kinda hangs around the same. but pretty rarely am i just staying at the same weight.

 

[Saint Nick]

Thanks again for the info, SC. And don't worry folks...I'll be back to a bulking diet when my schedule isn't so full.