Faster nVIDIA nForces coming

[Athlon4all]

<< You really cant beat the price of the nforce in my opinion! You get decent graphics, decent sound, and a reliable nic. The board is very stable also I have barely seen any posts on this forum about BSOD or anything else! But I do agree with you NFS4 that its not for me because I have better sound and better video! But I was kinda interested in the 415-D but to tell you the truth I did not know it was out yet and i thought the price was going to be around $110.00 without the video or sound! If the price is higher than that I'll be waiting on something else or going after those NW's and throwing all this VIA - AMD stuff is my Linux box! >>

I think that summarizes my thoughts. Personally, if you can dismiss poor ocing, I think you can't beat the value of K7N420 Pro. It gives Video, Audigy level sound, and NIC for the same price as Dragon+. I guess truthfully, I do think that KT266A is a solid chipset, but personally, I'd rather have nForce than KT266A if features are similar and price is same. It's a matter of choice.

 

[NFS4]

<<

<< The ONLY way that I would buy an nForce based board is if the its price was comparable or lower than VIA or SiS boards. And if I were to pay more, the performance difference had BETTER be great. Besides, I don't need integrated video or integrated sound so it's a waste for me >>

You really cant beat the price of the nforce in my opinion! You get decent graphics, decent sound, and a reliable nic. The board is very stable also I have barely seen any posts on this forum about BSOD or anything else! But I do agree with you NFS4 that its not for me because I have better sound and better video! But I was kinda interested in the 415-D but to tell you the truth I did not know it was out yet and i thought the price was going to be around $110.00 without the video or sound! If the price is higher than that I'll be waiting on something else or going after those NW's and throwing all this VIA - AMD stuff is my Linux box! >>


I gotta agree with you there. Without video, I wouldn't be willing to spend much over $100 for an nForce. And like many of us here all have NIC's, video cards, and sound cards (Live, Santa Cruz, GTXP, Audigy, etc.). And I'm not going to bother with sub GF2 MX level performance (since the memory bandwidth is shared).

So if you buy a 420-D, then add your own video card and sound card, I think that you just wasted your money The 415-D makes a better case, but only if it's near $100.

For a systems integrator, the 420-D is great. But for people like us, I don't see what the big deal is besides the "NVIDIA" name.

 

[PlatinumGold]

i have a question.

why would anyone buy the asus 415 board at 124 when the abit 420 board is availabe for 129??

 

[NFS4]

<< i have a question.

why would anyone buy the asus 415 board at 124 when the abit 420 board is availabe for 129?? >>


B/C the Abit board is a Micro-ATX solution with only 3 PCI slots and only 2 DIMM slots.

 

[RanDum72]

The Nforce 420 is still a good deal IMO. The Sound card is equal to, if not better, than the Audigy in terms of quality and CPU usage. An OEM Audigy is around $60. The built-in NIC is worth, say, $10. Add the price of a good KT266A board ($100-130) and the nForce board becomes a steal, even without factoring in the built-in video. What if you already have a sound card and a NIC? You can: sell them, keep them as spares, or if you are building a new PC, you have two lesss parts to worry about. Its also extremely stable and the Asus board that I have can lock the PCI at 33mhz while you OC the FSB to your hearts delight.

 

[InsaneMorphius]

Sweetness

 

[bluemax]

<< For a systems integrator, the 420-D is great. >>


You hit the nail on the head. I think I have to repeat this until I'm blue in the face- ahem...
The nForce is not for "extreme" users, but for the general masses. OEM system builders can provide users with a guaranteed level of performance. Users will be guaranteed to get 5.1 speaker support and GF2MX graphics.
This is a good thing for the "Average Joes" who still buy OEM (like HP) machines with i810/815, Rage128 or TNT2 M64. Yecch.

I still see the problem that being an AMD-only solution, OEM's stuck on Intel will continue t lose out.... until ATI's solution for Intel comes out. Any word on that?

 

[robg1701]

hmm...NFS4, i am under the impression that the Asus A7N266-C DOES do nForce audio....the Asus website proclaims dolby digital certification for it, and ive been able to buy it for a month now classified as 'Audio'....no video (well, duh ), no Lan since thats optional, as can also be seen from the Asus site..... http://www.asus.com.tw/mb/socketa/a7n266-c/overview.htm

BTW, its £123....making it £60 cheaper than the A7N266-E at £182, and £37 cheaper than the plain jane A7N266 at £160.
For comparision, the A7V-266E with just the audio is £128, or £138 with raid as well.


So at the moment, the A7N266-C is what id be buying if i were to be buying an Athlon setup.

 

[kgraeme]

<< hmm...NFS4, i am under the impression that the Asus A7N266-C DOES do nForce audio.... >>



Actually, I think the A7N266-C you mention probably designates the stock A7N266 using the optional C-Media audio while the A7N266-E uses the full spec NVIDIA audio. I don't have either though, so I can't speak with 100% certainty, and the ASUS website doesn't mention the "C" model anywhere.

 

[robg1701]

The C represents it being an nForce 415...the Cmedia chip is present on the plain ol A7N266 with no designator...as for the A7N266-C, i found it with about 4 clicks on the Asus site earlier, one for country region hehe, its been there for several weeks......and did you not notice the link in my post ?

 

[NFS4]

<< The C represents it being an nForce 415...the Cmedia chip is present on the plain ol A7N266 with no designator...as for the A7N266-C, i found it with about 4 clicks on the Asus site earlier, one for country region hehe, its been there for several weeks......and did you not notice the link in my post ? >>


Makes sense

 

[AGodspeed]

robg1701, the A7N266-C's that are selling in the U.S. currently do NOT have nForce sound. You can tell by the fact that "WOA" is included in the A7N266-C's title as "ASUS A7N266-C WOA."

In the UK, the A7N266-C's do have nForce sound, but not in the U.S. just yet.

 

[robg1701]

Hmm, thats pretty interesting given the price comparisons (mobos tend to be pretty equal on a £ vs $ basis i find.....so weve got £123 vs the $128 i think that thread NFS4 posted earlier said) and the fact weve been able to buy them for a month.....odd.

EDIT: Typos

 

[kgraeme]

<< The C represents it being an nForce 415...the Cmedia chip is present on the plain ol A7N266 with no designator...as for the A7N266-C, i found it with about 4 clicks on the Asus site earlier, one for country region hehe, its been there for several weeks......and did you not notice the link in my post ? >>



Ugh. My apologies. My brain hurts trying to keep these mobo model numbers straight. I did click on your link and instantly forgot that it was for the C (i.e. 415). Trying to compare models, I clicked on the "Motherboards" link on their site nav and the resulting page only lists the 420 models, thus my comment about no "C" on their web site. I've noticed that the ASUS site is often an interesting hunt to find information about a product you know they make.

 

[RagingGuardian]

<< why would anyone buy the asus 415 board at 124 when the abit 420 board is availabe for 129?? >>



Because the pci and agp clocks are locked at 33mhz and 66mhz respectively. For me this is the only reason I want an Asus Nforce board.

 

[robg1701]

Hehe, np, though i have to say i found it no problem....

1. www.asus.com.tw
2. Europe
3. Products > Motherboards
5. AMD CPU > A7N266-C

 

[RanDum72]

The plain A7N266 uses the C-Media sound chip and has no built-in LAN. The Asus A7n266-E is the full spec board with the nVidia sound, built-in NIC.

 

[thorin]

bdog321
"The N-Force has to be one of the most hyped up, completely forgoten about chipset thats ever come to market. Once it was released, it died."

What are you talking about? There are lots of people here who have nForce systems. And there are lots of people building them all over the place. I just built one for my momer-in-law and while I was in the shop picking up the parts 2 other people came in a ordered nForce based systems, the guy that was helping me says nForce boards (especially the MSI one) are going like hot cakes.

NSF4
"The ONLY way that I would buy an nForce based board is if the its price was comparable or lower than VIA or SiS boards. And if I were to pay more, the performance difference had BETTER be great."

Don't you mean "if its price was comparable or lower then the price of a VIA or SiS board plus a video card" ?????

RanDum72
"The Nforce 420 is still a good deal IMO. The Sound card is equal to, if not better, than the Audigy in terms of quality and CPU usage. An OEM Audigy is around $60. The built-in NIC is worth, say, $10. Add the price of a good KT266A board ($100-130) and the nForce board becomes a steal, even without factoring in the built-in video. What if you already have a sound card and a NIC? You can: sell them, keep them as spares, or if you are building a new PC, you have two lesss parts to worry about."

Nicely put. The sound is definately equal in IMHO better then the Audigy and the CPU utilization on the nForce Audio is hugely better (lower) then with the Audigy.

Thorin

 

[NFS4]

<< Don't you mean "if its price was comparable or lower then the price of a VIA or SiS board plus a video card" ????? >>


Nope, the price of an nForce w/o video compared to VIA or SiS. No way in hell am I paying for sub-par (relative to what I have now) video on a motherboard.

 

[bluemax]

I kinda' came to a startling discovery the other day -
SiS motherboards with integrated SiS315 video and C-media 6-channel audio is pretty much the exact same thing as the nForce!
Only a LOT cheaper!

Video performs almost exactly the same! :Q
I can provide SiS315 video review links again if desired but they're easy to find.


So I wonder who will provide faster integrated video first: nVidia, ATI, or SiS? (VIA ProSavage doesn't look like it's going anywhere.)

 

[BalAtWork]

NFS4,

I agree on the video side, but if you do not use it the board come out as the SAME price as a good via solution board. As for the sound, being a HTPC guy from avsforum's I can tell you the audio is better than audigy easily. The only competition thats close is Hercules and they cannot encode the 4.1. (for those who do not know, the nforce currently does not encode the center channel when encodind sounds into DD).

This board is by far the most simple coard in the owrld to set up. You literally plug it all in and install one driver and presto. EVERYTHING works. Talk about a simpe building scheme for a mainstream manufacturer. Add the fact this board ethernet controller literally kicks a** compared to most independant solutions and its great. The analog sound quality is also at a minimum on par (some argue better) then any other gaming card out there.

Finally, everyone keeps talking about sales sucking for N-force or no one ever talkign about it. The reason is simple. This is not a hardcore overclockers board. Most people NEVER have even the slightest hitch in implementing its use. There nearly zero RMA's. The only thing that hurt this board, were ASUS and MSI realeasing versions without utilizing the built in features. The word for that is a**anine. It drives up costs and is basically a bait and switch to an average joe.


Here is the best part, i do not even have one yet. I just have dealt with them and NOTHING out there can beat it in the overall picture. As for price comparisons, make sure the prices you compare are applea to apples (video, sound, nic, etc..)

 

[bluemax]

Looks like I found the answer to my own question.
The SiS 650 chipset for Pentium4... here's a clip regarding its integrated video:

The Integrated GUI features a high performance 3D accelerator with 2 Pixel / 4 Texture, and a 128 bit 2D accelerator with 1T pipeline BITBLT engine. It also features a Video Accelerator and advanced hardware acceleration logic to deliver high quality DVD playback. A Dual 12 bit DDR digital video link interfaced to SiS 301B Video Bridge packaged in 100-pin PQFP is incorporated to expand the SiS 650 functionality to support the secondary display, in addition to the default primary CRT display. The SiS 301B Video Bridge integrates an NTSL/PAL video encoder with Macro Vision Ver. 7.1.L1 option for TV display, a TMDS transmitter with Bi-linear scaling capability for TFT LCD panel support, and an analog RGB port to support a secondary CRT. The primary CRT display and the extended secondary display (TV, TFT LCD Panel, 2'nd CRT) features the Dual View Capability in the sense that both can generate the display in independent resolutions, color depths, and frame rates.

Looking for benchmarks now. But with this ^^ and integrated C-Media 6ch... pfft. Who needs nForce unless they can come out with a GT2ti or better integrated solution.
EDIT: Looks like this is just SiS315 integragted into the chipset. Still good, but it's the same one I was already thinking of.
One big advantage to this setup, though, is plug a video card into the AGP slot, you can still use both video solutions for instant dual-monitors! THAT alone is cooler than nForce!

 

[Athlon4all]

<< This is not a hardcore overclockers board. >>

Well, Ace's hardware declared Asus A7N266-E to fastest platform (figured overclocking in as well) for Socket A. I can get a link if you like, but of course A7N266-E is very expensive

<< Video performs almost exactly the same!
I can provide SiS315 video review links again if desired but they're easy to find. >>

Yes and No. Yes, SiS 315 on an AGP card with it's own dedicated 128-bit 166MHz SDRAM memory bus is very close to MX200 if now Mx400 speeds but on an Integrated platform like SiS 740 and nForce 420-D, the playing field is much different. On SiS 740, there is a maximum of 2.1GB/ps of memory bandwidth available not just for the CPU but for the Integrated Video as well and because the Athlon's fsb has 2.1Gb/ps, the Athlon if the CHipset let it, could suck up all that bandwidth without leaving anythign left for the GPU. On nForce however, the GPU has bascially the whole 2nd Channel of Bandwidth (The GPU has 2.1GB/ps of bandwidth at least) to use for Video Performance, while still leaving the CPU a full 2.1GB/ps. Do you see now that in the integrated market, nForce is faster still?

<< One big advantage to this setup, though, is plug a video card into the AGP slot, you can still use both video solutions for instant dual-monitors! THAT alone is cooler than nForce! >>

That is COOL!!!!

 

[bluemax]

Real-world benchmarks put the two allllmost the same. (If you extrapolate, since noone's actually compared nForce vs. SiS int. - although there waaas an Anandtech article on integrated video over a year ago...)
Considering the SiS solution is only a touch slower but significantly cheaper (I imagine!) I would still take the SiS for the lower price and instant dual-monitor option.

 

[Athlon4all]

True that nobody's compared SiS 740 and 420-D but, still you're missing the point. SiS 740's integrated graphics will have at most, 0.5GB/ps maybe even less, while 420-D is guaranteed to have at least 2.1GB/ps. SiS 315 in the form of an AGP may show no real world difference when compared to 420-D but when you figure in how bandwidth crippled SiS 740's integrated 315 graphics will be, I can't believe that it will be anywhere near 420-D's performance. Anyone else care to clarify?

EDIT: Just thought I'd add, I think that it's a bit long overdue for Anand to compare the latest series of Athlon UMA chipsets' performance (SiS 740, 420-D, and VIA KM266).