Far right wins big in France after attacks, same here?

[shady28]

As far as I remember the FN is into trade protectionism, I dont think they are into freedom (socially or economically wise).

The FN is not really far-right, it has some limited areas considered far right like immigration and euroscepticism.

Like I said before, EUs far-right is much farther right than you may suspect.

For example, one of their far-right parties in France wants to restore the French Monarchy. They are loons just like the far left that wants communism and eradication of capitalism. The equivalent here in the US would be like the KKK and GreenPeace having their own political parties.

The National Front (French: Front national, French pronunciation: ​[fʁɔ̃ na.sjɔ.nal] or FN) is a socially conservative, and nationalist, right to far-right political party in France. Its major policies include economic protectionism, a zero tolerance approach to law and order issues, and anti-immigration. A eurosceptic party, the FN has opposed the European Union since its creation in 1993.

 

[WelshBloke]

The FN is not really far-right, it has some limited areas considered far right like immigration and euroscepticism.

Its pretty far right. Its xenophobic, nationalistic, anti Semitic, into domestic survailence...

Frankly you'd have to argue that the Nazis weren't far right for it to hold (and please dont do that, I've heard those arguments before and my head still hurts now).

Like I said before, EUs far-right is much farther right than you may suspect.

For example, one of their far-right parties in France wants to restore the French Monarchy. They are loons just like the far left that wants communism and eradication of capitalism. The equivalent here in the US would be like the KKK and GreenPeace having their own political parties.

See this is where we hit the trans Atlantic culture gap. Restoring the Monarchy is just a silly thing to me not a symptom of being far right. Its something that old conservatives do (admittedly a lot of old conservatives are far right but there you go).

 

[shady28]

Its pretty far right. Its xenophobic, nationalistic, anti Semitic, into domestic survailence...

Frankly you'd have to argue that the Nazis weren't far right for it to hold (and please dont do that, I've heard those arguments before and my head still hurts now).



See this is where we hit the trans Atlantic culture gap. Restoring the Monarchy is just a silly thing to me not a symptom of being far right. Its something that old conservatives do (admittedly a lot of old conservatives are far right but there you go).

I see the obligatory "you're a racist if you don't want unfettered immigration" argument suddenly came up.

France is at a point where, frankly, reality is kicking the perception manipulation of the left right in the ass.

The police can't stop them :

North African immigrants in France attacking citizens :

But.. Looks like they found the one guy in France with a handgun :

 

[WelshBloke]

I see the obligatory "you're a racist if you don't want unfettered immigration" argument suddenly came up.

Did I post that?

Where?

Your post seems a bit random in response to my "No really, the FN are pretty right wing and racist."

France is at a point where, frankly, reality is kicking the perception manipulation of the left right in the ass.

You seem a bit personally involved and emotional here and I'm not sure where the outburst came from.

 

[shady28]

Did I post that?

Where?

Your post seems a bit random in response to my "No really, the FN are pretty right wing and racist."



You seem a bit personally involved and emotional here and I'm not sure where the outburst came from.

There's nothing random calling you out for calling a political group "racists" whose political platform is primarily anti-immigration political stance. It is simply another groups opinion of what is in their interests.

If you don't know, what you're trying to do is shut people down with "political correctness".

Then of course you proceed to do just that, again.

 

[WelshBloke]

There's nothing random calling you out for calling a political group "racists" whose political platform is primarily anti-immigration political stance. It is simply another groups opinion of what is in their interests.

If you don't know, what you're trying to do is shut people down with "political correctness".

Then of course you proceed to do just that, again.

I'm not "trying to shut people down", you're free to say whatever the hell you like.

We can play the "Shit that Jean Marie Le Pen has said" game if you want?

 

[Fern]

Far right wins big in France after attacks, same here?

Possibly.

I think that women's vote tend to determine the outcome.

If women fear terrorists attacks and ISIS etc. and don't believe Obama/Dems are effective at protecting us they may well tip the vote to Repubs.

If, OTOH, they fear random "mass shootings" and think the Repubs are preventing a legislative solution they will move to the Democratic Party side.

However, that requires that 'security" (national and otherwise) remains a top issue, above jobs and the economy.

Fern

 

[shady28]

I'm not "trying to shut people down", you're free to say whatever the hell you like.

We can play the "Shit that Jean Marie Le Pen has said" game if you want?

The guy that hasn't held office since 2003 and hasn't been in the party since 2011?

What say we talk about Bill Clinton since Hillary is running. That makes about as much sense.

I did not have sex with that woman.

 

[WelshBloke]

The guy that hasn't held office since 2003 and hasn't been in the party since 2011?

He "left" the party in August 2015.

Are you seriously saying that you dont think that the FN are racist? Because I dont think I've ever heard anyone argue that before.

And I've argued with actual members of the FN.

What say we talk about Bill Clinton since Hillary is running. That makes about as much sense.

You can talk about Bill all you like, not sure what its got to do with the FN being or not being racist.

 

[MongGrel]

I'm not "trying to shut people down", you're free to say whatever the hell you like.

We can play the "Shit that Jean Marie Le Pen has said" game if you want?

The guy that hasn't held office since 2003 and hasn't been in the party since 2011?

What say we talk about Bill Clinton since Hillary is running. That makes about as much sense.

I will myself, WelshBloke seems in a much better position/experience to have an opinion to begin with.

You seem to be making a few inane analogies to me, is all.

Have at it if you choose to, I suppose.

 

[shady28]

He "left" the party in August 2015.

Are you seriously saying that you dont think that the FN are racist? Because I dont think I've ever heard anyone argue that before.

And I've argued with actual members of the FN.



You can talk about Bill all you like, not sure what its got to do with the FN being or not being racist.

I'm not the one that called them a racist political party, you are.

Prove it.

 

[shady28]

I will myself, WelshBloke seems in a much better position/experience to have an opinion to begin with.

You seem to be making a few inane analogies to me, is all.

Have at it if you choose to, I suppose.

Funny, I wasn't even remotely thinking of that.

But it's good that you know what you are.

 

[MongGrel]

Funny, I wasn't even remotely thinking of that.

You've made that pretty obvious all ready.

I'm sure you will just continue down the non-applicable argument route.

Would be pretty funny to hear what you think I am, you must be a pretty astute guy

Have a nice day.

 

[WelshBloke]

I'm not the one that called them a racist political party, you are.

Prove it.

Ummm...

All the leaders of the party have been in court for charges relating to racial hatred?

 

[shady28]

You've made that pretty obvious all ready.

I'm sure you will just continue down the non-applicable argument route.

Would be pretty funny to hear what you think I am, you must be a pretty astute guy

Have a nice day.

How about a dose of your own?

What you're doing with your last few posts is called trolling. It's completely off topic, has no content other than a personal attack, and is against forum rules.

 

[MongGrel]

I was actually just backing up WelshBloke.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Marie_Le_Pen

Nice try at a pivot move though.

 

[shady28]

Ummm...

All the leaders of the party have been in court for charges relating to racial hatred?

Links and references?

Quotes as to what statements led to what charges would be nice too. Just for the sake of transparency. I know about some of them, and they are obvious politically motivated moves.

Here's a starter for you :

...is expected to face charges of incitement to racial hatred in France after the European parliament voted to lift her parliamentary immunity.

The French state prosecutor in Lyon had asked the European parliament to lift Le Pen's protection from prosecution as an MEP so she could face charges over a speech in 2010 in which she likened Muslim street prayers to the Nazi occupation of France.

 

[shady28]

I was actually just backing up WelshBloke.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Marie_Le_Pen

Nice try at a pivot move though.

Jean-Marie is not the FN candidate and is not in the party anymore.

Nice hypocritical move with the pivot statement, as you pivot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Le_Pen

 

[WelshBloke]

Links and references?

Quotes as to what statements led to what charges would be nice too. Just for the sake of transparency. I know about some of them, and they are obvious politically motivated moves.

Here's a starter for you :

What are you arguing there? That shes not racist or that she shouldnt have been prosecuted?

Just because you say something racist with diplomatic immunity doesnt make it not racist it just means you dont get prosecuted for it.

And her (correct IMHO) defense was that she should be allowed to say that because of freedom of speech and that shit not that she wasnt being racist in the first place.

 

[WelshBloke]

Jean-Marie is not the FN candidate and is not in the party anymore.

Nice hypocritical move with the pivot statement, as you pivot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Le_Pen

Jean Marie founded the party and only left it this year. You dont think that he's representative of it?

 

[werepossum]

Here in New Zealand the democrats would be considered right wing (maybe even far right) and the Republications would be considered a hate group and lumped together with the rest of the weirdo fringe parties.

And yet New Zealand has an immigration policy that Republicans dare not even praise.

 

[shady28]

Jean Marie founded the party and only left it this year. You dont think that he's representative of it?

What you are asking would be like asking if Debbie Wasserman should be the topic of discussion on candidates when considering Hillary. I would absolutely love that given how she is the author of many of the scare tactics / false statements made by the left, but no.

Marine La Pen has been the head of the RN since 2011, for 4 years. Wouldn't she be the one you should be talking about?

 

[MongGrel]

Jean-Marie is not the FN candidate and is not in the party anymore.

Nice hypocritical move with the pivot statement, as you pivot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Le_Pen

Somehow posting a link to the founder of the FN party with references to racial incidents that you asked for does not seem like a pivot to me.

Off to other things.

 

[WelshBloke]

Anyhooo, It should be interesting to see what happens in the second round.

If the Socialists and the Center right Republicans team up (and you know theres something rotten in the choosing when that happens!) will the far right still do well?

Will the electorate do a quick "Oh Shit!!" maybe a protest vote might not be a good idea?

 

[WelshBloke]

What you are asking would be like asking if Debbie Wasserman should be the topic of discussion on candidates when considering Hillary. I would absolutely love that given how she is the author of many of the scare tactics / false statements made by the left, but no.

No what I'm asking is like saying "Did everyone that support the party up till a few years ago not agree with Jean Marie or have they all had a spontaneous change of heart now that they have a new leader (who coincidentally also has been to court on racist charges)".

But you carry on throwing totally unrelated politicians from a different country into the argument. Its really helping your argument.

If I could remember what it was you were arguing.

But you carry on. I'm sure your doing a fine job at... well.. whatever it is you're trying to do.

Marine La Pen has been the head of the RN since 2011, for 4 years. Wouldn't she be the one you should be talking about?

Yes clearly everyone that was in the party and supporting Jean Marie has left and they now have a totally different membership.