Far right wins big in France after attacks, same here?

[bradly1101]

http://www.france24.com/en/20151206-france-far-right-national-front-le-pen-tops-first-round-regional-elections

Why is conservatism linked with security? After all it was Bush Jr.'s National Security Adviser, Condaleeza Rice, who gave short shrift to a warning two months before 9/11 from Intelligence that Bin Laden was planning attacks, maybe with planes.

Isis and their ilk want to draw us out into the desert where they think they can win. I'm guessing that our best military minds who are well aware of our recent failures are understandably reluctant to meet them in the field like that. Yet conservatives want to ramp up the war.

What we're fighting is an idea that the West is evil. We enforce that idea with every air strike and military action we take on their sacred soil.

Politicians have called for a Muslim force to fight this threat, somewhat sidestepping the perceived illegitimacy of our actions. But as we're learning, the divisions in the Middle East are as ancient as they are intractable. If one group rises up against another, they'll create a new rift that may be fought for centuries to come (so they are understandably reluctant too).

I'm not talking about doing nothing, but clearly until there are equal Sunni and Shia territories (a Sunni state with Sharia law is our best friend anyway) and the West stops meddling we'll be in for more of this on a larger scale, which is what terrorists and conservatives both want. Is that what we'll get thanks to the fear of more attacks?

 

[JSt0rm]

isis will attack us before the election to insure it. They want us to attack them over there.

 

[Knowing]

France's economy is also not doing so hot after years of socialists running things. They've also been dealing with immigration and identity issues for some time. I'm sure I've warned about the pendulum swinging before, perhaps France can once again be an example of doing it wrong.

Also, Obama's activity in Syria is far from doing nothing. For not wanting to get involved he sure is good at getting involved.

 

[Greenman]

I wasn't aware that France had a right wing.

 

[theeedude]

I bet French far right supports keeping the universal single payer health system they have.

 

[LegendKiller]

I bet French far right supports keeping the universal single payer health system they have.

Rightly so. The system we have here is an abomination.

 

[Knowing]

I bet French far right supports keeping the universal single payer health system they have.

How much did their insurance companies pay to the party that promised them guaranteed profits?

 

[boomerang]

Why is conservatism linked with security?

Because liberalism/progressivism most certainly isn't.

 

[Indus]

You can't associate France's or Europeans left with our own. They are not the same.

Even the European right wing will have to put up with LGBT, free medicare/ social programs and pay student to attend school and college for their own population. That is unacceptable to our right wing.

Another difference is that France's governments realize that they have zero manufacturing jobs and so unemployment will be at 30-40% and they need to take care of people to prevent riots. People don't have money to go to the theater so government subsidized actresses and arts for French cinema to make French films. Can you imaging that happening here?

How did they get that far left? Well it all began with what we did here.. send jobs overseas so the rich get richer while the middle class becomes poverty riddled.

People will be voting their lifestyle (how are they going to be able to feed their kids and pay their rent and bills) more than their fear of Muslims.

That's something the Wall Street paid politicians have done beautifully in the last 35 years.. turn the people that were the envy of the world - the US middle class into poverty ridden degenerates who want "free stuff" from the government.

So ultimately it comes down to this.. does the middle class believe Trump/ Right wingers who say they will create jobs when wall street wants more profits and lower minimum wage?

Or

Does the middle class realize we need $15 an hour minimum to maintain a respectable lifestyle of living?

Don't fool yourself.. we live in a post 2008 financial meltdown world more so alongside the post 9/11 world.

 

[Greenman]

You can't associate France's or Europeans left with our own. They are not the same.

Even the European right wing will have to put up with LGBT, free medicare/ social programs and pay student to attend school and college for their own population. That is unacceptable to our right wing.

Another difference is that France's governments realize that they have zero manufacturing jobs and so unemployment will be at 30-40% and they need to take care of people to prevent riots. People don't have money to go to the theater so government subsidized actresses and arts for French cinema to make French films. Can you imaging that happening here?

How did they get that far left? Well it all began with what we did here.. send jobs overseas so the rich get richer while the middle class becomes poverty riddled.

People will be voting their lifestyle (how are they going to be able to feed their kids and pay their rent and bills) more than their fear of Muslims.

That's something the Wall Street paid politicians have done beautifully in the last 35 years.. turn the people that were the envy of the world - the US middle class into poverty ridden degenerates who want "free stuff" from the government.

So ultimately it comes down to this.. does the middle class believe Trump/ Right wingers who say they will create jobs when wall street wants more profits and lower minimum wage?

Or

Does the middle class realize we need $15 an hour minimum to maintain a respectable lifestyle of living?

Don't fool yourself.. we live in a post 2008 financial meltdown world more so alongside the post 9/11 world.

For all of that, the root problem isn't addressed.

 

[ivwshane]

Because liberalism/progressivism most certainly isn't.

Did someone make that claim? No! No, one did, dipshit!

 

[Moonbeam]

Fear causes the conservative brain defect to activate. It activates the terrors hidden in the unconscious. People can't protect themselves from this happening because they are totally ignorant that such terror lies within them. And that is exactly how they want to keep it. A frightened person will believe anything and do anything to stop the fear.

We are monsters and all the more so because we don't want to know it. Humanity is asleep, living in a nightmare dream. But the individual can awaken.

 

[shady28]

You can't associate France's or Europeans left with our own. They are not the same.

Even the European right wing will have to put up with LGBT, free medicare/ social programs and pay student to attend school and college for their own population. That is unacceptable to our right wing.

....

The first sentence is dead spot on, but the rest is the view of a left winger in the US trying to get people to think the US is too conservative.

France has multiple parties - like a dozen or more.

They break up into "Far Right", "Mainstream Right", "Centre", "Left" and "Far Left".

The "Far Right" and the "Far Left" would both be considered radical in the USA.

For example, the "Far Left" includes :

Workers' Struggle (Lutte Ouvrière) - Promotes Trotskyism and communism.
Left Party (Parti de gauche) - Promotes democratic socialism, republicanism, anti-capitalism and environmentalism.


The "Far Right" includes groups like Royal Alliance which wants to restore the Monarchy in France.

I'm not sure what the OP means by "Far Right" but I think reality is the "center right".

"Far Right" and "Far Left" in Europe is usually... very extreme, very radical.

If the "Far Right" is gaining traction in Europe, it's a good time to short the Euro, because those groups generally do not want to be in the EU and are libertarian (minimal gov't social services). Both the Far Left and Far Right in Europe (generally) seem to be very nationalistic, the one trait they seem to have in common.

 

[shady28]

This is the party that won big in France :

"The National Front (French: Front national, French pronunciation: ​[fʁɔ̃ na.sjɔ.nal] or FN) is a socially conservative, and nationalist, right[citation needed] to far-right [16][17][18][19][20][21] political party in France. Its major policies include economic protectionism, a zero tolerance approach to law and order issues, and anti-immigration. A eurosceptic party, the FN has opposed the European Union since its creation in 1993."

Source

Edit: What's probably most interesting is how big the right, in general, won. The "Republicans" are a center-right party. Both they, and the NR, have more support than the current Socialist party.

So I would say, France just leaped from being center-left to being center right (with a far right leaning).

From the OP link -

The party came ahead of both former president Nicolas Sarkozy’s Les Républicains (formerly the UMP), which earned 27 percent, and President François Hollande’s Socialists, with 22.7 percent, according to the exit poll...
...
Exit polls showed the FN gaining more than 40 percent in the two regions, in the north and south of the country respectively, well ahead of rival parties.

 

[Jhhnn]

France's economy is also not doing so hot after years of socialists running things. They've also been dealing with immigration and identity issues for some time. I'm sure I've warned about the pendulum swinging before, perhaps France can once again be an example of doing it wrong.

Also, Obama's activity in Syria is far from doing nothing. For not wanting to get involved he sure is good at getting involved.

Please. Europe's economy is not doing so hot after years of the banksters in charge.

It's austerity, good for the soul & for the people at the top.

 

[TheVrolok]

My biggest concern regarding "terrorism" is that it will strike enough "fear" in people to actually allow one of these really disturbing GOP candidates to win the presidency. This is a bigger election than people may realize. Terrorism may actually allow the United States to become far more socially conservative (aka regressive).

 

[Sonikku]

http://www.france24.com/en/20151206-france-far-right-national-front-le-pen-tops-first-round-regional-elections

Why is conservatism linked with security?

Because the constant beating on the war drums makes it sound like they're doing something. It's great for a feel good feeling that action is being taken, even if it isn't actually accomplishing anything. Most don't realize that ISIS and all the others aren't the type of organization that will be bombed into submission. All that will do is drive them in deeper while simultaneously souring the non terrorists opinions of America.

For all practical purposes, Anonymous has been more successful in waging a war on terror than our government has. Our government basically waddles into the middle east, hands out weapons and vehicles and training like candy and then when the terrorists are armed up and suited up with American bought equipment we then spend even more on war machines to fight them.

One wonders if the better way to fight terror is to simply stop arming the Osama's and Saddam's and Contra's of the world and use our NSA and CIA to completely cripple and undermine their message and propaganda like Anonymous does. For all the lives and weapons and dollars expended in the middle east, I just don't see an acceptable return.

 

[trenchfoot]

Because the constant beating on the war drums makes it sound like they're doing something. It's great for a feel good feeling that action is being taken, even if it isn't actually accomplishing anything. Most don't realize that ISIS and all the others aren't the type of organization that will be bombed into submission. All that will do is drive them in deeper while simultaneously souring the non terrorists opinions of America.

For all practical purposes, Anonymous has been more successful in waging a war on terror than our government has. Our government basically waddles into the middle east, hands out weapons and vehicles and training like candy and then when the terrorists are armed up and suited up with American bought equipment we then spend even more on war machines to fight them.

One wonders if the better way to fight terror is to simply stop arming the Osama's and Saddam's and Contra's of the world and use our NSA and CIA to completely cripple and undermine their message and propaganda like Anonymous does. For all the lives and weapons and dollars expended in the middle east, I just don't see an acceptable return.

I agree with much of what you say.

Let me add that in all of this policy hemming and hawing, the jaw jacking, the fear mongering, the propagandizing.......look at who those folks are who are making huge profits from the corruption those profits are financing. It's a vicious cycle that is self-sustaining.

We should not discount the fact that decisions are being made globally at the highest levels of gov't that is greatly influenced by the profiteers and those who seek to exploit our political system's flaws and loopholes for personal gain.

 

[Blanky]

Why is conservatism linked with security?

It's not necessarily that, it's that increasing numbers of French realize that there is something inherently wrong with islam and they are getting behind leaders who are not afraid to speak out against it. Those leaders tend to be more right-wing than progressive left, which refuses to speak out against any kind of minority state (such as a minority religion) because they fear it makes them seem bigoted or xenophobic.

 

[Zaap]

lol!

Anything that's even halfway NOT insane, is labeled "Far right wing!!" in Europe.

So basically, a position of reasonable taxes, not spending all the fucking money down a rathole and everyone's kids into endless debt (or REALLY, only positions of doing all those things LESS than the current breakneck rate) and overrunning the country with anyone from any and every shithole globally= *GASP! Far right wing!"

Meanwhile the 'left' over there is just batshit insane worse than the US left.

 

[DCal430]

Since the start of time the ring wing has loved to use fear mongering to get votes, in fact you can say even ISIS is part of the ring wing, and it too uses fear mongering to get supporters, it is just points its fears at the west.

 

[MongGrel]

Since the start of time the ring wing has loved to use fear mongering to get votes, in fact you can say even ISIS is part of the ring wing, and it too uses fear mongering to get supporters, it is just points its fears at the west.

Maybe you should work on those communication skills a bit more...

 

[Indus]

If the "Far Right" is gaining traction in Europe, it's a good time to short the Euro, because those groups generally do not want to be in the EU and are libertarian (minimal gov't social services). Both the Far Left and Far Right in Europe (generally) seem to be very nationalistic, the one trait they seem to have in common.

I have friends from France. He said the exact same.. he's shorting the Euro against the Dollar.

The first sentence is dead spot on, but the rest is the view of a left winger in the US trying to get people to think the US is too conservative.

The other stuff is well stuff he tells me, not like I've ever been to France so I didn't know how left the ultra right wing is.

 

[Grooveriding]

You can't associate France's or Europeans left with our own. They are not the same.

This here. I don't think someone who has only lived in America can understand the differences in political left/right leaning in other countries. In Canada our right wing party, the Conservatives, are less right leaning than the Democrats in America.

The right wing of the US is not representative of right wing parties in most other first world nations. They are often aligned with racism, proliferation of every firearm known to man, homophobia, denial of scientific truths, Christian dogma etc. Those are unacceptable qualities to the point that they would guarantee the party never getting elected in a lot of countries.

 

[Indus]

The right wing of the US is not representative of right wing parties in most other first world nations. They are often aligned with racism, proliferation of every firearm known to man, homophobia, denial of scientific truths, Christian dogma etc. Those are unacceptable qualities to the point that they would guarantee the party never getting elected in a lot of countries.

Incredible truth