Fanatics at their best!

[chansen]

You've misunderstood. I meant him in particular.

 

[Martin]

<< But listen to you, you're quoting a biology book. Of course it's going to support Carbon-14 dating. >>




I'm sorry, where should we be looking then? The Bible?

You see, science has something religion doesn't -- credibility. Just look around you, everything you see has been achieved through science. You are using the internet to communicate, something created by the same 'heretics' you are attacking.

You are right, certain aspects of science are sometimes proven wrong, but what you fail to mention is that they are replaced with better ones. Science always advances, Just because it gets better all the time, doesn't mean its wrong!

The half life of Carbon 14 is 5700, which means its only good for dating artifacts from a certain age. No where is it implied that it has to be in the millions of years. In order to acurately date artifacts that old, you would need isotopes with longer half lives.




<< So the bible-throwers can try to change the heretics minds - making it a lifelong quest - but don't dare the heretics try to change the bible-throwers minds? The bible people get all upset when others get critical about their faith, but they fail to understand that their evangelism breeds retaliatory reactions from non-believers. I find it objectionable to sit there passively and be told that evolution is a farce because some holy book says otherwise, yadda yadda. If some spread around such fairy tales, don't be surprised when others armed with scientific evidence debunk their notions with bravado.
>>



nicely said

 

[xirtam]

Who says we're attacking "heretics"?

We're not attacking heretics. We're attacking heresy. In other words, we don't have a problem with the liars or the ignorant, we just have a problem with falsity. We don't care who discovers the truth as long as truth is discovered.

Please don't put ad hominem words in our mouths. Most of these attacks in this forum are quite personal in nature... i.e. the "misguided gangster" thing and the

<< I find it hard to believe that some creationists can support these scientists when it conveniences them, and deem them heretics at other times. >>

thing. We're not attacking people... we're attacking ideas. A scientific approach would be to refute the argument rather than whine, "They're calling us heretics and misguided gangsters!" We're just seeking truth. Furthermore, when we "support these scientists when it conveniences [us]," don't you think that maybe we're just trying to support what we perceive as the truth? What, is it supposed to matter who supports truth or what other doctrines they have that I might not agree with? I sure hope you aren't that closed-minded, because many of us aren't either.

 

[NaughtyusMaximus]

"I can, when Mt. Saint Helens erupted, tree trunks were sheared off and flowed down hill. The water loffed when they stopped, and tipped upright. One layer of soot and ask dried arount it, then another, and soon those trees were trapped between several different layers."

"Wow, so it doesn't take millions of years to happen!?"

This does not prove anything whatsoever. Layers from volcanos are totally and completely different from sedemenary layers created during different ages of the world, and are not used for the same purpose as reglar fossils are.

 

[MichaelD]

<<

<< What's wrong with going out and getting completely juiced every once in a while? It's fun. >>



Well, to list possible problems, 1) it's addicting. Lots of people I know feel immune to getting addicted but yes, it can happen to you. 2) Getting completelyjuiced impairs judgement quiet heavily, maybe you drink more than you can handle and get alcohol poisoning, decide you can drive, pass out and crack your skull open, lots of possibilities. 3) I know people who've gotten to the point where they are completely bored unless drunk, life is no fun without the alcohol. Mark though, these people are not alcoholics, not yet, maybe never, but they sure think life's dull when they're sober during the week. 4) passing out, puking, etc is not fun. Care to argue? >>



Thanks, Mom. Are you now the Anandtech DenMother? The points you made ^^^ are correct, but you present them in a very bitter tone. Maybe you're one of those 12-step survivors? Dad get drunk and beat you? Mom get drunk and beat Dad? Get over it. Life sucks and then you die. The idea is to enjoy the time that God gives you here on earth. Howver you enjoy it, then so be it. But don't preach. Nobody likes a soapboxer.

 

[Iron Woode]

Lets clear up one misconception right now. A scientific THEORY is the explanation of how things work. Alot of people don't get this through their heads and come up with the nonsense about "its only a theory" arguement. If you are guessing how something works, that is called a HYPOTHESIS. As soon as one group starts saying its only a theory, I stop listening to them as they are just ignorant of facts and just want to shove their twisted views on me.

You gotta love bible-thumpers when they say the Earth is only 10,000 years old. This is based on adding everyone's age as stated in the bible, together. Like the bible is a reliable source of information? It says in the bible people used to live for 700 years or so. Really, eh? Some people will believe anything.

The site is labelled as the truth. Really? Since when are twisted facts and lies the truth? If you want to promote Family Values then concentrate on that and forget the propaganda.

 

[Atlantean]

those things are pretty funny.

 

[silverpig]

<<<< I find it hard to believe that some creationists can support these scientists when it conveniences them, and deem them heretics at other times. >>

thing. We're not attacking people... we're attacking ideas. A scientific approach would be to refute the argument rather than whine, "They're calling us heretics and misguided gangsters!" We're just seeking truth. Furthermore, when we "support these scientists when it conveniences [us]," don't you think that maybe we're just trying to support what we perceive as the truth? What, is it supposed to matter who supports truth or what other doctrines they have that I might not agree with? I sure hope you aren't that closed-minded, because many of us aren't either.>>

Sorry, replace scientists in my statment with radioisotopic dating methods.

The fact of the matter is that the cartoon implied that carbon-14 dating was not good for dating at all, and then they turned around and said that implied that it was accurate in showing the earth was 10 000 years old.

Scientist: Potassium-40 dating shows this fossil is 250 000 000 years old.

Cartoon guy: Radioisotopic dating is highly inaccurate.

Scientist: Carbon-14 dating shows this fossil is 10 000 years old.

Cartoon guy: See? That's as old as the earth is.



I don't get it. And that statement about how there's only enough carbon in existence to prove the earth only 10 000 years old... HUH??? I don't understand that argument at all.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

They don't need to use propaganda and one-sided comic book examples to promote family values. I wonder where they'd be if they had no godless infidels to feed their religious pride with. They thrive on feeling like they are specially chosen, so looking down on and being intolerant of others is pretty much a prerequisite.

 

[Palek]

<< They don't need to use propaganda and one-sided comic book examples to promote family values. >>



Remember who the site is aimed at? "The Truth for Youth." Using comics is arguably the best way to reach out to young people. So stop trying to attack every little detail about this site, it is just to obvious that the content of the site itself bugs you so much that you will go to extreme lengths to discredit it.



<< I wonder where they'd be if they had no godless infidels to feed their religious pride with. >>


Do you really think that this site was created to boost the ego of Christians? I think not.



<< They thrive on feeling like they are specially chosen, so looking down on and being intolerant of others is pretty much a prerequisite. >>


Most Christians KNOW that they are NOT any more special than non-believers. God says we are all sinners. The difference between a believer and a non-believer is the acknowledgment of that fact, a plea to God to be forgiven and salvation by faith in Jesus. Most Christians (notice "most") do not look down on non-believers. Sadly there are some who think they indeed ARE better, but those people will always fall flat on their faces because they are blinded by their pride and believe in themselves instead of God. Christians that put their faith in God will remain humble and will not condemn and look down on unbelievers.

Oh, by the way, thanks for the link.

 

[mattyrug]

I like the Rock Music one the best! -
Hey guys, I got tickets to the madonna dahmer and the deat squad tonight. He's totally twisted, that's no place for a christian to be!!

 

[d1abolic]

HAHAHAHA HOLLLYYY SH1111TT!! LMFAO!!!

 

[d1abolic]

http://www.thetruthforyouth.com/images/comics/rockmusic/page5.html

HAHAHAH!!

 

[Nefrodite]

You're right, we've found hundreds of humanoid fossils. They either prove to be Human or Ape.





your kidding right? there have been a few cases that were found to be hoaxes, but the vast majority are not catagorized as human or ape, except in creationists minds

 

[mplogic]

Some interesting points all around. I just had a couple thoughts.

On Evolution: First of all, there is not one single form of skeletal remains that the scientific community has ever been able to validate as being from a Nethanderal or Cro-Magnon or any other form of "in between" human. Only half dozen or so that were "claimed" at one time or another to be proof of evolution, and every single one has since been deemed "inconclusive" or proven to be an ape or a human, as we know them. I'm very curious to know where you got this information. Inaccuracies of carbon dating aside, the 10,000 years or so of Biblical human history doesn't necessarily start with the creation of the earth. When going back to the original Hebrew, it is commonly understood nowadays that the 7 days of creation spoken of in the Bible do not refer to literal days and eons may have passed in the time between the creation of the earth and the arrival/creation of man. Many believe that we are now in the 7th day. This would allow for some margin of reliability in the carbon dating. Also, I just read recently (Scientific American I think) that many scientists are now returning to the belief that a world wide flood would be the only possible explanation for the earth wide layering of the fossil record, and that genetically it is very likely that all humans originated from a common ancestor. Not saying that this proves either side of the debate, just that it allows for both.

On Science in general: Yes, Science can be credited with many great things, however scientists (educated as they may be) are just men like everybody else. It is very difficult to know for sure when the scientific method starts and stops and when a man's ego and desire to understand takes over. Remember that just 500 years ago or so it was the common Scientific belief that the Earth was the center of the universe and bloodletting was common medical practice. Just like our history proves, mankind has always thought of their current state as "educated" while in reality the only thing Science has ever proven is that we understand nothing at all. Scientific theories are being made, changed, updated, and thrown out as we speak. Every time the Scientific community thinks they understand a complex issue, they come to the conclusion that the problem is infinitely more complex than they originally thought. Then they rely on estimation and approximation to formulate their theories. Another interesting point is that most of what we commonly know as the worlds best scientists (specifically Einstein) were the ones that realized the incredible complexity of the universe and the laws that govern it, and allowed for the evidence of some form of design and the fact that mankind would never be able to fully understand it. This takes much humility, especially for a Scientist who is supposed to be able to understand these things. Scientific fact that we understand now (that the universe is much more immense than we ever could have guessed, that everything we can observe is as infinite in it?s complexity as the universe is in size, that some sort of order or laws govern the way things work, that these laws all effect each other in some way and all operate like clockwork in perfect unison, that for life to exist at all a very very precise balance of these laws in near infinite proportions is needed, for intelligent life to exist an even more precise balance is needed, and that the odds of this kind of life coming about in any way (Evolution, Creation, or ???) are simply astronomical) all point to some kind of intelligent design and forethought.

On religious fervor and fanaticism: It is truly scary whenever a person allows themselves to be totally controlled based on what another individual has said or written. Fanaticism is the source of much misleading and only proves to cause detriment to other humans. This is true of everything from the September 11 terrorist activates, to faith healers who line their pockets on the misfortune of others, to modern day advertising that drives people to desire what they can't afford and encourages them to go deeper into debt. Fanaticism whips people into such a fervor that they believe what they are told and make life decisions that may not actually be the best choice for them. Unfortunately, when I read these comics and material similar to them I can see how they are designed to mearly work people up (as this thread clearly demonstrates) instead of providing an unbiased presentation of facts, and then encouraging the reader to make their own decisions. If the facts are accurate and the presentation is completely unbiased, then the conclusions reached by free reasoning people will be similar or at least along the same lines. I'm not convinced that the sole purpose of these comics is mearly to help people.

On our own reasoning: As humans we have an ability that is unique to life on this planet. We can reason. Whenever a person chooses not to use their reasoning ability, and blindly trust what they are told, nothing good can come of it. I guess the point is that we shouldn?t discredit anyone?s thoughts until we?ve given them careful consideration and done our own research to draw our own conclusions. We also shouldn?t be naive enough to believe that any human (including ourselves) can have all the answers.

My own conclusions: I don?t consider myself a Scientist, nor am I an expert on religion. I think though that if anyone were to take the time to carefully analyze every bit of evidence that is presented to them, they will come to some simple conclusions. (but don?t take my word for it) Here?s an accelerated version of this kind of logic: 1. Science always has been and always will be inadequate to explain everything. 2. The sheer amount of Scientific fact we can understand at this time can only prove that there must be a greater power at work in the universe. 3. (this one?s a jump) It is impossible to completely discredit Biblical Prophesy. There are just too many modern day fulfillments to call it all chance. 4. If Bible Prophesy is coming true, there must be at least some validity to what is said in the Bible. 5. If at least some of what the Bible says is true, we should desire to find out for ourselves about these prophesies and if or how they might affect us.

Sorry for the long @ss post. It started out as just a couple thoughts. I don?t mean to soapbox, I hate preachy stuff as much as some of the other posters here.

 

[Iron Woode]

mplogic:

<<Remember that just 500 years ago or so it was the common Scientific belief that the Earth was the center of the universe and bloodletting was common medical practice.>>


This was caused by a lack of science not by science. The church said the Earth was the center of the universe not science. Any scientist caught disagreeing with the church was severly punished and essentially gagged.

Again your thoughts and conlusions prove my statement is 100% correct:

<<As soon as one group starts saying its only a theory, I stop listening to them as they are just ignorant of facts and just want to shove their twisted views on me.>>

PS: i guess the people who discover fossils and those who study them in detail have no clue about anything and that you have all the answers, eh?


lets all go smoke some pRon!

 

[CStroman]

In the safe sex one they say that HIV can pass through pores in a condom. That's only true for goatskin condoms, not the common rubber ones.

 

[WageSlave]

6

 

[oLLie]

Maximus if you had your ratings on I would give you a 10 every day for the rest of my Anandtech life. That site is so funny it's not even funny (make sense?). The only things that can rival it's hilariosity are some of the replies in this thread.
Fight!
Fight!
FIGHT!
*edit* Where do I sign up to let these people think for me? OMG, I'm so tired of scientists and logic and common sense forming my thoughts. Aren't you? Wouldn't you much rather have these people do all the tough thinking for you? Where do I sign up to give them my individual consciousness that seems to be what they are after.
Ah, sweet sarcasm, I love you.

 

[Nefrodite]

This was caused by a lack of science not by science. The church said the Earth was the center of the universe not science. Any scientist caught disagreeing with the church was severly punished and essentially gagged.

yup, religious fanatics always keep part of the truth away from you for your own good its not lying! but it certainly works in convincing ppl, just look at creationist literature.

In the safe sex one they say that HIV can pass through pores in a condom. That's only true for goatskin condoms, not the common rubber ones.

yup prime example of the half truths psycho religious abstinence groups use

 

[oLLie]

All right here is what I hope comes out of this thread:
Hopefully Pr0hawk who's done those AT prank show things before will see this thread and will "get help" :


<< If Pornography has
gripped your life call 1-800-394-HOPE(4673) for completely confidential help. >>


Of course he will record it and we can all listen as he is "saved".
Anyone else interested in seeing (hearing) that happen?

 

[LordMaul]

WTF, I am leaving this thread before I get myself banned. The absolute retards who support whatever they read and bash the hell out of what they niehter read nor want to understand astounds me.

And no, I'm NOT talking about the Creationists.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

Propaganda made palletable for teens. What kind of ideas are they trying to program into the minds of impressionable children. Looks like more contradiction and self-hatred, as if kids don't have enough of that. The purpose, to get them dependant on their brand of absolutist religion, hooked for life. Where are some Muslim truth comics...that would present a funny turn in perspective.

 

[Red Dawn]

Lord Maul

<< And no, I'm NOT talking about the Creationists. >>

Ah shut up you friggin Hypocrite. Nothing you add to any thread is worth reading.

 

[Nefrodite]

from lord mauls initial post i think it blew his mind that the site wasn't absolutely true guess the brain washing he's getting from home schooling is working fight the doubt lord maul! your parents aren't feeding you bs! its all true! god is lord!